True sailing is dead.
When the still sea conspires an armor
And her sullen and aborted
Currents breed tiny monsters
True sailing is dead
Awkward instant
And the first animal is jettisoned
Legs furiously pumping
Their stiff green gallop
And heads bob up
Poise
Delicate
Pause
Consent
In mute nostril agony
Carefully refined
And sealed over
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There’s a fine line between insane gullibility and hysterical pseudo skepticism. 😛 |
mceljo
I was just chatting with a friend of mine today about some audiophile products that could easily be marketed with similar pseudoscience to what many products currently have.
>>>>>Have any examples?
Without stepping on too many toes, if Romex wire is what’s in the wall why wouldn’t it make sense for an audiophile manufacturer just built in some ideal connectors into the back of the component that would allow a custom run of Romex from the breaker box to the back of the component. Why have an outlet or separate power cord at all?
>>>>>Uh, I am pretty sure the reason is that most audiophile cables sound better than Rome’s. Case solved!
I’ve often wondered if a product like Nordost Sort Kones truly make a difference why wouldn’t a manufacturer of five figure pieces of equipment just include them with their gear as a "door prize"? Better yet, why not just design it right into the component since money is no object in the first place.
>>>>>Some manufacturers do use specialty cones, actually. Audio Aero’s CD player used those carbon Fiber cones.
Audiophiles often argue that tweaks are best utilized in the most discerning systems where there is sufficient fidelity to hear small differences. I’d argue that a $400 CD player should benefit from having better supports than a $40,000 CD player because at that price those types of factors should have been part of the original design.
>>>>>>Yes, the argument works both ways. Many tweaks are audible on inexpensive and expensive equipment/systems.
I think science would indicated that most of the audiophile targeted products that are advertised with pure pseudoscience are likely relying on the power of suggestion in most cases.
>>>>>>Which products are you referring to? Are audiophiles so weak they can be that easily hornswaggled?
Do people still paint the edges of their CDs green to increase the bass?
>>>>>Yes, they do. Works great. Thanks for asking. |
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I see your D7 Vinyl Stabilizer and raise you 2 Shun Mook Mpingo record weights. This whole expensive record clamp, weight whatever issue has been discussed to death. Time to move it along, people. |
When it comes to meat Spam is perhaps the best for damping applications. Not too soft, not too hard, supremely elastic and supple. Spam, the veritable meat. By Hormel, The audiophile’s meat of choice.
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Ah, I was wondering how long it would be before the double blind test reared it’s ugly head. The favorite tool of the uber skeptic. You don’t even have to do the test, you just scare them with the very thought of it. ;-) |
PT Barnum also said, "Folks would be generally much better off if they believed in too much instead of too little." |
Actually it’s proof that they’re not gullible. Just because someone has something ludicrously expensive for sale doesn’t necessarily mean he sells any. Most likely scenario is he might sell one. If he's lucky. Therefore proving audiophiles are not gullible, at least not that gullible.
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Jafant wrote,
"Not gullible here."
All audiophiles who consider themselves gullible raise your hands.
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"No one will argue the virtues of a good record clamp or weight. But, how much technology can one cram into a good record weight? There is nothing on earth that could justify the asking price. One could look up a local machinist and have him make you one that looked identical, send it to a plating shop for a real gold plating, and probably have it all done for under $300. So just because someone is wealthy enough to purchase such an item, doesn't make him any less foolish for buying into the hype.
Have you seen the plug strip that is not even a very good plug strip, supposedly cryogenically frozen, and sounds so amazing you'll throw out your power conditioner? For only $400! The very Definition of snake oil. "
But whether nor not its snake oil is not the issue that was raised by the OP. That's a completely different issue from whether audiophiles are gullible or not. |
I remember the Tice Clock. It worked actually. But uber skeptics like to use it as an example of snake oil. Well, that and the Teleportation Tweak. See the irony? |
Mop man, I know you are but what am I? I fear you tarried in the map service a little bit too long. I was lucky. I got out before it was too late. ;-) |
I have a Mpingo disc on top of my Tice Clock. Is that wrong? |
Moto man, what's next witches' dunking chairs? But seriously, any double blind test, controlled test, A/B test, whatever is only one data point. You cannot extrapolate one data point. If in fact most of the tests reveal the device actually works you just throw out all the negative results. They're only outliers. Follow?
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Moto man wrote,
"@geoffkait , I respectfully disagree. It’s not extrapolating one data point, which even then is subjective. It is discarding all of the nonsense reviews by "reviewers" and owners, and rely on tests that cannot be colored by preconceived expectations. I am not saying that all participants in a double-blind listen will have the same conclusion, but they should. So to me its not throwing out all of the other data as much as recognizing that some reviewer raving about how a record clamp makes all the difference in the world is BS. This data points should be discarded. Now, in a double-blind study, someone legitimately reached the same result, don’t you agree that that would have significantly more validity? Plus, the witches’ dunking chairs were supposed to be objectively verifiable tests. You float, you’re a witch. You sink, their bad. . . guess you weren’t a witch! Based on a faulty premise, sure, but still objectively verifiable. :)"
Something tells me the only ones who are hot to trot to conduct double blind tests are the ones who’ve already made their minds up, you know, the died in wool skeptics. Skeptics claim these outlandish audiophile gadgets can’t pass a double blind test but never do you see a skeptic actually conduct a double blind test. What’s up with that? Isn't that putting the cart before the goat?
Cheerios
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"I remember buying a heavy plastic screw-on record clamp from Allied Radio, before it was bought by Radio Shack. It cost $2, and it worked. Apparently, if Allied charged the right amount back then, they would still be in business."
"It works" is not exactly what audiophiles have in mind. "It works great!" is what they have in mind. A stock fuse works. An aftermarket fuse works great! A Radio Shack cable works. An audiophile cable works great. Well, ideally. Lol A bicycle inner tube or tennis balls works. A Vibraplane works great!
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Hey, Ray - hard to say for sure but I'm guessing you forgot the little smiley face. :-)
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For the skeptical protector of naive gullible audiophiles there’s a lot to get the blood boiling. One need look no further than $15K stereo cartridges, $125K speakers, $48K speaker cables, $12K power cords, $24K interconnects, $110K turntables, $6K power strips, tiny little bowl resonators made of pure platinum or gold, amplifiers at more than $100K, $86K DACs. What’s the retail price for the Shun Mook Mpingo record clamp these days, assuming it’s even available which I doubt? That ought be sufficient to bring on a brain aneurism in even the most world weary skeptic.
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Mapman, I feel your angst. If you have a frog in your pocket it's always best to let it out. You'll feel better. Share, share...
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I design and sell a clock that is, while still a clock, totally unlike the Tice Clock in terms of operation, though obviously also rather outlandish - the Clever Little Clock, now in it’s third incarnation. Would you believe the CLC received a Brutus Award from Positive Feedback and (to make matters worse, so to speak) the clock, which is battery powered and can be placed anywhere in the room, underwent a blind test conducted by the reviewer and his wife? What the Clever Lil Clock illustrates so handily, hang on to your hats, is the effect of time itself on our sensory perception of the sound.
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Motor Man, that’s why I included knocking off the Mpingo disc in my previous post, because things are often not what they seem when it comes to these things. Like the diamond coating used in the Magico tweeter and the graphene coating used in the Magico main driver. You can't judge a book by looking at the cover. Have you ever seen what’s inside a Mpingo disc? |
Motor Man wrote,
"@almarg , "The real question, though, would be whether differences could be distinguished between this $6800 weight and another 3+ pound weight having similar contact area and costing say $50 or so."
You are exactly right. The question is not whether a 3 pound weight makes a difference . . . Its whether a $5800 brass and "lignum vitae" weight makes a worthwhile difference over a 3 pound $50 brass weight. I find it highly doubtful."
That’s pretty much the same type of thinking that motivated such nuggets as, "Wouldn't a plain brick work just as well as a VPI Brick?" or, "Why can’t you just knock off the Shun Mook Mpingo disc? How hard could it be?" Or, "there’s no way I’m paying $20K for the new Magico speakers so I’ll just make my own. How hard could it be?" |
