I'm having a really hard time with: "Power cable reduced my soundstage"...

I have gone thru a few speaker cable rotations and with the power cable I cant hear a change... 

@captbeaver and @whostolethebatmobile. You had me at hello. Anyone looked at Madscientist cables? They fly under the radar, which intrigues me further. Yeah they have some Voodoo stuff going on, but it seems to work based on reviews and I’m interested. And they're relatively cheap.  Any thoughts?

https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/769-mad-scientist-audio-heretical-analo....

My system is being set up to be as simple as possiable...

CD
Mac Pre
Parasound A21
Aerial Acoustics 10T’s

done

I dont want ANYTHING i need a manual to program! Period.

My guitar rig is a Two Rock 22 Watt amp. Simple and well made.

I am making the power cables for my pre and amp... 

Sleepwalker, you can’t prove a negative. 🤗

Power cables have zero influence on sound stage.

Power cables can inductively couple with other cables. This will cause noise from other cables EMI fields to be transferred to the power cable in question. Similarly, when inductive coupling takes place, the EMI field of the power cable in question is transferred to other cables. 

Much of this inductive coupling can be mitigated by isolating (not bundling) power cables from other (power and signal carrying) cables.

When isolation is difficult or impossible, the use of ferrite beads can isolate the noise source. This is why switch mode power supplies have ferrite beads on their input and output cables. 

Shielding, when done properly, can be effective. I say “properly” because most unbalanced audio cables use the shield as a signal-bearing conductor. This causes induced noise to be brought directly into the signal path. The correct way to shield an unbalanced audio cable is to add an additional layer of shielding which is isolated from the signal-bearing conductors, and tied to chassis ground at only one end (preferably the source side). Typically the most convenient place to ground the shield in audio systems is to the preamplifier chassis, as the preamplifier is the hub of the system. 

Going back to the OP’s claim about loss of sound stage, that is due to other factors. Most likely speaker placement and phasing. 

Michael, I’m certainly not trying hide my system or the fact it’s a Sony Walkman. In fact I mention it quite frequently. 🤗 Your “low mass system” approach helped inspire me. Kudos to you! Maybe you’re just sore I took your approach to the extreme. As I’ve tried to point out to you many times, there are a great many advantages to a very simple battery powered system, none of them actually have much to do with mass. No offense intended. I can always tell when you’re upset and trying to put me in my place. That’s not really an effective way to participate in this forum, at least not with your humble scribe, if you don’t mind me saying so too much.

To Eric squires - thanks for the link to the article on power conditioners and their benefit for a Stereo System. I just had to send my Krell S550i in for repair - the main processor on the main board burned out. I use a Furman Elite to protect my Stereo from voltage surges/ noise etc. we had a power surge due to lighting. The system kept playing fine - but my digital display ‘went blank’. Other than this all the electronic equipment plugged into the Furman was fine. I pulled the Krell to send it back for repair - upon removing the power cord (an ANTICABLES power cord ) a hunk of the insulator was fractured and fell off. I should have both the Integrated Amp and power cord back this week both repaired and ready to go.

The Furman saved my butt. I will be adding another Furman to my ‘second stereo system this month.

HEA crashing and burning? Is it a victim of climate change?

”Makes me ask do you guys even use power cables”

Now that you ask, no I don’t use power cables. I’m not a fan of the noise and distortion they bring to the table. I like Signal, not Noise or Distortion. 

Of course vibration is a big issue, too, and it can be rather difficult to separate the two in terms of cause and effect.

Soundstage is the off-axis of the speaker, it can’t be changed. Now, channel separation, phase mismatch, frequency response linearity do play roles, but a different power cable is incapable of effecting this.

A power cord has as much effect on SQ as a gas pump hose has on a car's mileage! 

The conductors inside the walls feeding from the service panel are already only 12 gauge (or maybe even 14).  I would compare to an off-the-shelf cable and request a refund...there's nothing to debate if it's a "same length" cable and laid in exactly the same position so as to avoid the issue of EM field theory discussions creeping in...or its just variances in inner ear pressure.  Maybe try a different listener?

Dont throw me stones,but i used stones for that with great impact on all count! 

Try some...

I’m pretty sure shielding can’t deal with the rf coming in on the AC line. Or with the rf generated by microchips, among other things.

In my experience, shielding tends to close in the sound (although some system really need it).   If with this new cable (op) the soundstage is reduced it could be that some hum is coming through and screwing up the perception of "air" and "placement".

Second of all... it is true. 

Ok
1 He is very knowledgeable.

2 The cable is certainly well made.

3 Compared to a couple of high end cables he own’s  and reps... the sound stage was reduced.

1+2+3= go together

he was kind enough to take part of his busy life to test my cable against some big boys... he is going to keep it for a month or so to burn in then test again.

captbeaver writes:

My good friend that is in the business and very very knowledgeable calmed that a well made 10ga power cable reduced his soundstage... I’m not saying it will or won’t but why would it? I would like to know the science behind this. I did research on here but not satisfied. I had a pair of Logans and they were wonderful and I used stock power cables and the stage was crazy... I have been making cables for years ( musician ) and know the value on quality... what is the magic?

First of all if this is true I would have to question how "very very knowledgeable" and "well made" and "reduced his soundstage" can possibly go together? Well made would not reduce, and no one with even a little knowledge would claim this. They would say this terrible piece of crap cable reduced my sound stage. So right off we have a puzzle.

But that’s nothing compared to the puzzle of "why" power cords work.

Solve that one and you got a whole pile of money just sitting there for the taking. To even begin to get some idea just look at Ted Denney III, the man is rolling in it, and even he isn’t exactly sure and has to keep constantly experimenting to find out.

As for me, I could pretty much care less. But not much less. It would be nice because if you knew then you could look at the different designs and not waste your time on the bad ones. But nobody knows. So no choice but to go and listen and see what sounds best.

If there’s magic to be had, and there is, this is the only way I know of finding it.

Tone and soundstage are two very separate performance characteristics IME.

The academic studies of psychoacoustics better explains the difference your friend claims to hear - more so than any quasi-technical explanations you’ll find littered throughout the web and this forum.

The only ways a power cord might affect the sound is if it either, a) restricts current (increases resistance) to the point that it limits the amplifier beyond its maximum current draw capability, or b) its shielding is different, thereby causing an increase or decrease in the total EMI of the system. These two scenarios are both uncommon.

What is most likely is that your friend expected to hear a difference which affected his/her brain chemistry (altered mood) which led to a real perception (not necessarily reality) of difference. That’s about as close as a component can get to creating "magic." Remember that all magic is an illusion.

The same phenomenon occurs when one listens to their system while fatigued, or following a stressful day.

Super good question. AFAIK, the best a power cable can do is block noise, and transmit power.


Too good a cable, and it transmits noise and power. Based on this, here is my thinking on an affordable, effective middle ground:

https://inatinear.blogspot.com/2019/04/power-management-for-frugal-audiophiles.html

A soundstage is a mental construction of the listener based on the tonal accuracy of the equipment. If the soundstage shrinks it means the component may not be as tonally accurate as it should be. Power cables are capable of affecting the tonal balance of an audio component. That’s how they could shrink a soundstage.