MIKEPAUL powered speakers not passive may bad |
MIKEPAUL a passive speaker is a biamp speaker amp for woofer amp for tweeter when you buy a passive speaker your buying two amps then you buy two more for the tweeters the bad thing with passive speakers the bass amps are junk thats why market is full of them amp in side a speaker is not good |
Coming back to the OP's question: Amplifiers are not independent commodities. You don't gauge their worth and put them in your closet, waiting for the to appreciate for years before you take them out and sell them still in the box.
Who cares if an amp performs well on speakers you don't own?
Amps are part of systems, tightly coupled to the speakers. When evaluating the performance it is the system behavior that matters, not a test bench and not in a system you don't own.
In general, yes, most amps whether solid state or tube are more impedance dependent than we'd like to believe. Using a powered bass section in a speaker will stress this particular issue less than a traditional multi-way speaker would. It does not by itself change the value of an amp, unless you are a reviewer, of course. :)
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Turn a powered woofer into a positive by reducing the demand on and for an amplifier.
For example you can power them with a smaller amplifier than with a typical passive woofer speaker.
For example a tube integrated Primaluna amp driving a powered Goldenear Triton 1 powered tower speaker sounded excellent- tube soundstage and midrange bloom with the dynamics and bass impact of a robust solid state amp.
You can get large room sound with a modestly powered decent quality amplifier. No more 80 lb. behemouth amps required. |
Hi guys,
just want to thank you all for the responses. There's a lot to digest here. |
You can't have it both ways, obviously. My point is that the typical audiophile would think that not much would happen to the bass response of a speaker with onboard amplification for the bass. That is wrong, and typically the perception of the entire speaker's performance, including the LF, is reoriented through changing amps.
To address the concern of the OP, if, perhaps he is considering the amp in question, I have not found typically that an amp that performed better with a fully passive speaker did more poorly with one having powered bass. In my experience, usually, an amp is superior/inferior in entirety. It is quite uncommon for an amp that would not drive a passive speaker well in the low frequencies to be superb in the mid/upper. So much of the performance is shaped by frequencies above 100Hz that you will by and large have the character of the amp regardless of the speaker being active/passive bass (Some will disagree, no doubt, but I am not interested in arguing that point). Imo, one might think that a lower powered amp would be superior in such an application (powering the M/T) as a speaker with powered bass. No, you have no clue until you compare, and when I have done such comparisons, the superior amp with passive speakers has been superior with speakers having active bass. I have typically enjoyed the headroom afforded by higher powered amps to lower powered in such applications.
So, perhaps that summary helps the OP understand why a reviewer would pursue such a system and comment on the bass. Technically it is correct that the internal amp would power the bass, but the experience is holistically different, and valid when comparing amps.
The same holds true of powered subwoofers; the perception of their performance is changed strikingly by swapping out the mains amp, even if no power cord or signal cable is changed to the sub. Again, amps that did better with solo main speakers typically also did better when the subs were added.
That is not to say you can't massage the sound of the passive or active to make one sound better than the other.
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I think that the OP brings up a great point in that you dont necessarily get as good an indication of the true amplifier total response with a speaker with a powered woofer. A good scenario would be if you were using an impedance sensitive amplifier like an OTL. |
I have no interest in the particular review or reviewer, but in general another aspect to be discussed with powered bass is the signal cable and power cords. Many never maximize their speaker due to being too arrogant, lazy, or chintzy ( or all 3) regarding those cables.
Once or twice I tried to get powered model and passive model for side by side comparison, but manufacturer was unwilling.
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Judging an amp with any speaker that includes a powered sub Is like judging a tag team not the individual wrassler. |
ALL speakers (with/without bass amplification) holistically respond to amp changes, and they are typically immediately discernible. See for yourself. Powered bass readily responds to speaker cable changes and power cord changes. Ditto for subwoofers.
The Legacy Audio Valor Speaker System I reviewed for Dagogo.com, with its internal bass and subwoofer amplification, responded just as any passive speaker would to amp changes on the mid/treble.
Even if the change is to the midrange on up, the entire speaker will sound distinctly different due to the change in interaction between the drivers. The relative strength of the bass, it's tonality, dynamic power, etc. relative to the mid and treble has changed.
This thread is fine evidence of the hubris of readers who default to distrust of reviewers, thinking they know better. Well, in the majority of cases, you don't. :)
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MIKEPAUL that tells you all you need to know about all audio magazine reviewer not about audio but money |
I've had a few speakers with powered bass and a few without, and weirdly it was easy to tell amp changes on the powered guys. Even though they don't have a load on the low end of the spectrum, the amp still typically contributes down to 80hz, maybe lower, depending on the crossover.
Anyways, the powered bass gives you a lot of flexibility to try different amps so I really like them. Trust me, you'll hear amp differences just as fast as you would with a passive full ranger. |
Hi mike,
Great questions.
While designs may vary, usually the bass section will offer the amp a high resistance value, say 800 Ohms instead of 8. This limits the current the amplifier has to provide in this range to 1/100th of the original. This lets the amp perform like it has a much bigger power supply and with a much higher effective damping factor, but the tonal qualities, including distortion and noise, of the amp are still in play.
However, without a line level (before the amp) high pass filter, the main amp still has to cover the entire voltage swing of the original signal. In other words, it's a small win for the amp, but it could be even bigger.
Vandersteen seems to have this part covered pretty nicely, with a line level high pass filter and the speaker’s amp designed to compensate with it. Quite clever. This effectively removes the bass V signal (most of it!) from the amplifier output, making the amp's voltage swing much smaller. It's a feature professional systems take advantage a great deal, but usually we don't worry about it for home. To give you an idea though, maybe you can now use a 30W Class A amp if you have a high pass filter, to reach the same levels than before you had a 200 W.
Best,
E
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