How to go about collecting Classical Music

Thanks Larry for your recommendations. So far I’ve listened to one of the Bach CD’s after the set arrived yesterday. Only 141 more to go.

Mike

I don't know how much of the box I've listened to because I don't make it a point to listen to everything in such a large box; I tend more to pick out favorite works to hear the particular performances contained in the box.  It is only when a box contains works I am not familiar with that I make it a point to listen to all of the box (like the amazingly good box of 6 cds of Villa-Lobos string quartets on Brilliant).

For Mozart, I would suggest starting out with the following:

Piano Concerti: (No. 17, 20, 21, 23, 24, 27)
Violin Concerti: (all of them, many complete versions available)
Clarinet Concerto (one of my all time favorite works)
Requiem Mass (another all time favorite)
Jupiter Symphony (#41)
Magic Flute (opera)
Marriage of Figaro (opera)
Don Giovanni (opera)
Serenade #10 ("Gran Partita") for woodwind orchestra.
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Horn Concerti (particularly #4)

Larry, I’m glad to hear you like the Brilliant label Mozart box set. The bidding on the 200 CD Deutsche Grammophon Mozart set went well over the $600 mark today and I really couldn’t justify bidding more on an artist I am honestly unfamiliar with other than by reputation and the movie about him a few years back. But you might as well start out with the best.

I did email Deutsche Grammophon last night and asked them if they were going to put out any more of their "Beethoven 2020" complete works set issued last year. That’s already unavailable too. I suggested they reissue the Mozart set as well as there’s apparently a market for it.. You can still get one on Amazon if you’ve $1900 to part with. No chance the suggestion to DG will go anywhere, but I did try to appeal to any avarice they might have. They already today did send back a longish reply written in German, so who knows.

I’ll keep my eyes open for the Zander CD’s you mention, and eventually try to find alternate versions of any especially enjoyable works of Mozart, as you suggest. Complete works sets are valuable, if for nothing else, for including the less well known works of an artist you’d most likely never find anywhere else. How much of your set have you listened to so far? Must take years to make your way through the entire box..

Mike

I have that Mozart box too, and it is certainly a good way to become familiar with his works.  He is one of those composers whose every known works is topnotch.  After finding favorites, you can then search for alternative performances.  That is a big part of the fun--hearing different interpretations of the same work.

Every collector of classical music collects different performances of the same works.  It helps to know learn how a conductor or performer interprets a work and how that interpretation is translated into specific ways of playing the piece.  There are recordings that include extra material where the performer discusses the performance.  For example, Benjamin Zander has issued some CDs that include an extra CD with such explanation with samples from the performance.  I have performances of Mahler's Fifth and Ninth Symphonies with such extras from Mr. Zander and I recommend them highly.

You sure can acquire some Classical music inexpensively. I was looking to try out a CD or so of Mozart recordings as some of you suggested. So I looked on Ebay to see if anything good was available. Well, they had a brand new Brilliant records box set of his complete works, 170 cd’s, for only $79. That comes to about 45 cents per disc, an unbelievable price.
The reviews of the boxed set seemed to be good. So I figure even though there might be better recordings of his works out there, this has to be an easy way for a beginner to be able to sample the full range of his output.

Usually I consider between $5-10 per single CD a good price for used jazz or rock CD’s in "very good" condition. So this seems like highway robbery, not to mention affordable fun, even if Mozart proves not to my taste. I did pay double that from Amazon for the equivalent Brilliant Records Bach set, due to arrive tomorrow, and thought that was an amazing bargain. So live and learn. I can’t imagine ever finding any Miles Davis recordings at that kind of price. 

Mike

Nnicola, appreciate your suggestion. I was going to bid on his DG Complete Works box set for sale on ebay buts its already exceeded my upper limit.

Hifi28, thanks for your recommends as well

Dpl1, I'll check the library for the BBC Music Magazine. wish I could afford a nice item like that to have in my library. Maybe some back issues will show up on ebay.  I'll look. I'll keep a lookout for Virgil Fox too. Thanks.

Mike

I recommend the BBC Music Magazine, a monthly with a bonus Christmas issue, $163 annually in print, $63 digital. It is educational, and not too Anglo-centric. The print edition comes with a CD each month, which will give you a good introduction to many genres of classical music. The magazine is not just record reviews; there are pieces on music history, featured composers, interviews with musicians, opinion columns and detailed exploration of a single piece with recommended recordings (and why). It occasionally covers jazz and world music too, to a much smaller extent. Once you have dipped your toe into classical and found genres that you like, it could be a good way to find new music.

Three most famous US based world class conductors, Sir Georg Solti and Fritz Reiner, both headed the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Also, Arthur Fiedler of the Boston Pops. A lot of audiophile 50s-80s classical LP/CD pressings were conducted by them. For example, one of my favorite LP/CD, RCA Living Stereo, HI-FI Arthur Fiedler, Fiedler Boston Pops, by BMG Classics (CD). Every audiophile should have one just for the cover picture, music are good too. I don’t know how to add an image, but a must see, Google it and look closer what’s on the floor! As for organist, look for Virgil Fox.

Listen to anything by Mozart....

Larryi, Thanks  for the list of conductors who specialize in this type of music performance. I'll check out Jordi Savall as well. He sounds interesting, especially if he's conversant with early forms of African and Middle Eastern music, another interest I'd like to pursue, but know little about. 

I took a course with in college in 1972 titled "Black Music" taught by Phyl Garland, who was a music reviewer for High Fidelity, or maybe it was Stereo Review at the time. I distinctly remember her playing for the class a historic African drum piece where there were seven rhythmic patterns being played simultaneously. The interplay of rhythms was fascinating. I'd love to hear something like that again, with which Mr. Savall might have some familiarity. 

I'm really digressing here. Don't know if they still do, but but there always used to be a gathering of Caribbean tin drum players on the weekend in Central Park who would play polyrhythmic music non-stop all day long for anyone to listen to. I used to love hearing them play. 

To get back on subject, I really do  appreciate you sharing that list of conductors, and I will search them out as I start collecting classical music in earnest.

Mahler123, huh?

Mike 

Ask me.  I know everything :-)

You can do research on "historically informed performance."  I don't know if there are particular labels that specialize in this, certain performers, such as the conductors Nikolaus Hanoncourt, Trevor Pinnock, Phillippe Herreweghe, Christopher Hogwood, and John Eliot Gardiner are popular practitioners. 

There is another performer/composer that is particularly interesting and unique that I personally think is worth looking into--Jordi Savall.  He is a student of early music (medieval, renaissance and baroque) and a student of musical practices from a wide range of cultures (European, middle east, african) and has made some amazing recordings that include his own original compositions based on different periods and locales.  This is, not strictly speaking "authentic," but his music is based on his research and is so compelling I say "so what?"

Larryi, although it appears to me, there is a goodly sized pool of politicians to draw from who appear to meet the basic qualifications for being castrati singers, I do see what you mean. Maybe there are classical labels that specialize in period instrumentation. Anyone know of any labels like that, other sources, or ways to find that type of thing?

Mike

I have no problem with taking the original instrument/historical performance approach.   But, for anything composed before the 19th century, this will not be easy.  For early opera and other vocal music, it would mean castrati singers (not many, for obvious reason, exist today).  For Bach, Haydn and Mozart, no conventional piano (harpsichord, or for late Mozart and Beethoven a fortepiano).  What many consider conventional instruments and practices is really a modern development and a rough consensus of how something should be played. I would guess that Beethoven, if given a choice, would prefer a modern Steinway or Bosendorfer piano over the fortepianos available in his day.

Larryi, there seem to be so many permutations of classical music it’s going to take a while to sort them out. It doesn’t make sense to me though personally, to at first listen to music played on different, more familiar instruments than it was intended for, I do want to understand what a composer was composing in the context of his or her own time. I do want to hear and experience the strangeness of those instruments that Bach was actually composing for and listening to.

I like to immerse myself in the art of different cultures and time periods to try and get a feel for what they are, or were, like, independent of our own time and place. That’s really interesting to me. On the other hand I do like and prefer The Who’s take on Eddie Cochran’s "Summertime Blues" which is certainly far different than the original from the fifties. There’s something for everyone.

Mike

While I think some of the guidelines offered above are helpful in making initial selections, they should not be treated as "rules." One of the best things about classical music and performances thereof is how wide open and varied are the possible choices. 

Should performances try to adhere to original interpretations (however that may be divined) and be played on original instruments?  I have many recordings that purport to be such "historically informed performances" and I do like some, but, I also appreciate performances that are decidedly not in that camp.  For one example, I would not rule out Glenn Gould piano performances of Bach keyboard pieces just because the piano had not yet been invented.  I even like some modern transcriptions, such as Bernstein's string orchestra version of Beethoven's late string quartets (No. 14 and 16, I believe). 

Telefunkin, I especially like to find records just like you describe. My late wife loved to go antiquing, but hated when I stumbled upon some bins of old records. And from limited looking through the classical records you find that way, you're right that they do on the whole look to be in much better condition that rock n' roll or jazz records you find . I'll have to start looking again, after having mostly switched to used CD's on Ebay. to avoid the condition issues. From what you are saying we do frequent many of the same type places, albeit on opposite coast.

Realworldaudio, thank you for your informative post. I will be pay careful attention to all the labels you mentioned above, both good and less so. That is valuable information to have. I haven't come across any used boxed sets of classical music, but have not looked either. I'll keep my eyes open. I hear what you are saying about avoiding "modern interpretations". The box set of Bach I'm waiting to get in the mail goes in the other direction, even using period instrumentation. I'd prefer to experience the music the same way the composer would have.

I am considering getting the Deusche Grammophon Beethoven complete works set next, but need to research it more as some here have been disappointed with DG's recording quality in years past. The rest of the artists you mentioned I'll have to try piecemeal to get a feel for what is most enjoyable, Same with conductors, orchestras, individual performers and the like.

Label19, it will probably take years to get though all 157 of the Bachs, but will be fun to do so. I'd only listen to one if I felt like it. Its been fun having  63 Miles Davis records and CD's to choose from, and I never seem to tire of them. My listening to parts of my collection tends to come in jags, and I'll plow through different parts of mf maybe 1500-2000 records and CD's depending on what interests me at the moment, based on sometimes nothing more than catching a few minutes of an artist on TV or maybe. reading a reference to an artist here

Mike.

Of all the genres of music I shop for, I've been the most fortunate at purchasing super cheap classical vinyl in near mint condition.  I think it is because classical music listeners tend to take better care of their vinyl and own better turntables that don't damage the grooves.  There also doesn't seem to be as big a market for used classical vinyl, either.  I've found huge collections dumped at the strangest places, a thrift stores in Ridgecrest California, a Goodwill in Lancaster CA, a book sale at the local community college, HPB, etc.  I'm cool with you not wanting to go that route, though.  Leaves more vinyl for us less fortunate vinyl junkies.

You are in for a great adventure!
The are some caveats: performance quality and recording quality rarely match up. You can find most great performances in mediocre quality, and the best quality recordings often have material that (as many say) should never have been recorded, and we would not have lost anything. As the saying goes, they most often press only that material in high quality that would otherwise never sell. Vice versa, if people want to hear it, why bother with quality, just press more of the weak recordings. This is a kind of pun, but unfortunately stems from life. For example, Angel and Seraphim have excellent interpretations of the Baroque era, but their recording quality is generally the lowest of all. (Except for the newer Angel digital, which is pretty good, and you will mostly find that on CDs - but their older analogue recordings are quite poor in quality, using second hand master tapes.)
First, your task is to figure out what you like.There are landmarks, who are the giants of classical music.
Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven is the immortal trio upon which practically the rest of classical music is founded upon. I would advise to get acquainted with them first, to get a strong foundation.
The modern composers (such as Stravinsky, etc) offer a very different perspective.They mostly use the same instruments, but the purpose of the works is just about the opposite.Bach, Mozart and Beethoven is all about meditation, beauty, harmony, exploring your inner universe and linking it to the outside world. When you find such works in a good interpretation and good recording quality, it leads to powerful healing and inner growth. Restores you, even saves your life when you have a super stressful job or going through desperate times in life. They also give inspiration - for example, Mozart was Einstein's muse...

Modern composers do the opposite: they explore the outside world, take you for an ecstasy ride, they delve deep into excesses, horrors and terrors of history. Drama, drama and more drama - the more grand, ostentatious, unpredictable, the better. They are suitable when your life is spot on, no worries, and you need some excitement in your life, and want to experience extremes. Listening to much of this music will gt you energized and ready to act, but often leave you unnecessarily agitated and unbalanced. Just to stick to Einstein's opinion, he used very harsh words to describe many modern composers, I am very civil with my descriptions.

That is the general tendency, but there are always exceptions - there are plenty of healing works in modern music (Gustav Holst has that effect on me), and some WTF moments for baroque composers. But, the general tendency is there, and the vastly different expectations of the ages, what people expected from their contemporary music in eg the XVI century and today are vastly different.
I second HM, DG, Telarc, Teldec, EMI, DECCA, London, Telefunken, RCA LSC as superb sources. You can also go for Hyperion, Unicorn, Delos, L'oiseau Lyre, these are superb, smaller labels of high quality. 

Although I have a sizeable classical CD collection, I mainly listen to classical on LPs. Do not be afraid of the condition... yes, sometimes LP used condition is terrible, but you can find pristine early pressing treasures which completely redefine quality listening experience. Get 2-3 copies of the same LP for 1-2$ each, keep the best and you are still under 5$ budget per record. It will be a great experience: how vast a gap there is between two copies of the same recording. While digital format (to me) is perfect for pop and electronica music, and modern sounding recordings, but classical connects much more on LP. Digital somehow convey too much control: can work well for modern composers, but spoils Baroque ambience completely. Although there are some labels that do a pretty good job on CD with baroque classical music, Dorian comes to my mind with fantastic classical CDs.

For LPs, a secret is boxed sets. They cost very little, and are most often in mint condition: maybe Side A of the first record was played once, and that's it. That's the flip side of box sets as well - you can have the best recordings, and they are worth next to nothing if you try to sell them. The exception being the sealed box sets, which go for ridiculous money. Once you remove the plastic cover, you have knocked off a zero from value.
In your place I would start discovering Bach first, then a little Mozart and Beethoven. Then Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Ravel, Holst, Mahler, Shostakovitch, Mussorgsky. You can also expand to medieval music and renaissance (going back in time). That's also a very different kind of music

Also, be aware of the conductors. Their interpretation impacts the piece greatly. For example, a Mozart piece can be conducted to sound as a Beethoven piece, or Bach to sound like Khachaturian. There is a great nimbus for such performances (called modern interpretations), but you want to stay away from those at first, to get a feel for the core and the tradition.

Have a great journey!

Primephonic+1. Not long ago they were running a half-price sale. One problem with Primephonic though, is that you are constrained to their app or a web interface. Can’t use my Innuos Zenith. One is similarly constrained with Idagio.

Larryi, +1 on the Schubert quintet and Winterreise. I have only 5 recordings.

Between lps and cds I have around 1000 disks. This is a small collection compared to those of many in this thread. A big problem with even 1000 is to get around to listening to everything. There is a big temptation to settle in to 30 or 50 disks that you just love, and visit with them again and again. I finally decided I needed a listening strategy. Mine is to take a week or so every month and binge by category -- an opera binge, the next time a chamber music binge, etc. I’ve found that not only do the binges force me to listen to stuff I might not have gotten around to in a less structured way, but my set of favorites slowly evolves. However you do it, this is something to think about. With 150+ Bach cd’s, it’s just going to be hard to manage, and if you listen to them all at once you will learn to hate Bach.

I really would consider subscribing to a service like Primephonic.  If you truly have no idea what to get, it would be a great way of exploring music of various composers, styles, and historical eras.  Once you Identify something you like, you can then hunt down the CDs, music files, or LPs if you prefer, at online sources.  But just buying physical media blindly or on other people's suggestions can be frustratingly hit-or-miss.  You'll end up with a hell of a lot of stuff that just doesn't grab your interest.  Classical radio stations are nice, but you're once again at the mercy of other people's musical tastes and interests, which may be ridiculously skewed in one direction or another.  Your music collection is for you....not other people.  I've long ago stopped recommending stuff to other people because I find that much more often than not, they just don't hear what I hear, and I don't hear what they are hearing.

Brubin and rvpiano, thank you for your suggestions.

Telefunkin, Iwill add those sets you mention to my list of music to explore purchasing. and will research what they contain if I can find some information on them online.

Rbschauman, Archivmusic sounds like a good resource, especially if it’s CD oriented and offers recommendation. I will get to it.

Here in the Roanoke, Virginia area there are, or used to be before the pandemic, occasional classical music performances. There may be a Roanoke Symphony even. On the local PBS they used to regularly run a commercial showing the conductor. They commercial unfortunately had him come across just like "The Maestro", if you remember him from the old Seinfeld show. Poor guy., But where’s there a conductor an orchestra has to be lurking somewhere. I remember at least once hearing about some chamber music locally. It’s probably more likely to find live classical music here rather than jazz in any event.

Thanks for your encouraging words and suggestions.

Anyone, I realized why its taken to age 68, almost 69, to start appreciating classical music. My girlfriend throughout college was learning to play classical violin from one of her professors as part of her classwork. She, the professor, was a talented violinist in the Mid-Hudson Symphony Orchestra.

I’d usually come home from classes and my work-study job, do some homework and then be treated to my girlfriend practicing classical music on the violin. There was no escaping. That daily practice was not dissimilar to a chorus of agitated cats on a hot roof. I haven’t thought about that for a long time, but it’s doubtless taken near fifty years to get over it, and is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit that I have at long last.. I should have been nicer to her about it at the time, thinking back. Oh well.

Mike

+1 Another resource is the on-line classical CD seller Arkivmusic. They have an enormous listing of available CDs searchable by artist, composer, label, etc. They also offer recommendations on particular recordings that can be helpful.


+1 please consider supporting and attending local classical performances once this blasted covid issue gets put to bed. Actual practicing musicians are not having the best of times. Not to mention as good as sound reproduction can be, hard to beat a live performance.

A great pursuit, Mike! Enjoy the journey!!

I would definitely recommend the classical CD box set route.  It wasn't that long ago that purchasing the entire Fritz Reiner or Charles Munch RCA Living Stereo catalog in one box you could hold in your hand would have been beyond fantasy.  Both sets are awesome.  You can also get nearly the entire Mercury Living Presence catalog in three sets and sound quality is great.   The Decca Sound sets are also great, especially the first set and the "Analog Years" set.  I even bought the Decca Sound Mono set and loved it.  They're cheap enough it is easy to take a chance on.

+1 for brubin,
For $9.99 a month you have the world of classical music at your feet on Idagio.

I would subscribe to idagio.com  they have the best classical collection and wonderful search interface.

Rcprince, thank you. I'll track some you recommended down. I would really liked to have seen that organ too. .I've been reading about it since last posting. Form what you say, I might Have been fortunate to have listened to some amazing practitioners. The ones I recall hearing were certainly that..

Lowrider, Ill take a look. And appreciate you endorsement of larryi's box set recommendations.

Larri, I'll add your suggestions to the list. Thanks,

Mike

+1 @larryi 
I own many single CD's that are included in these sets. Very good to excellent sound quality and what great performances.

If sound quality is a big concern, there are a number of boxes covering some of the labels with the best recording quality, such as the box of Mercury Living Presence, Decca Sound, RCA Living Stereo, Chandos Milestones, and Harmonia Mundi 50th anniversary.  The boxes I have from these labels have around 50-60 CDs each.  The sound quality is quite good and there is a fair sampling of different musical styles and types.  

Lenny loved teaching. Here's one of the Young People's Concerts from YouTube... 
https://youtu.be/HxccvLzuChg

This has to be seen to be believed...
https://youtu.be/G7_6Z33eCaY

The most famous recording made in St. Thomas, at least among record collectors, was the 1957 Mercury Living Presence recording of Marcel Dupre playing the Allegro from his 6th Organ Symphony, together with other works of Widor and himself.  You might be able to find a CD of it (I have both the original vinyl and a CD).  In addition. Gothic Records (which, along with Priory, has an extensive library of organ discs) has a number of organ and choral recordings from that church featuring longtime organist and music director Gerre Hancock, who you may have heard playing there.  As an aside, young virtuoso organist Felix Hell was the organist there when he was a young teenager and his feet could barely reach the pedals, you may also have heard him playing there.  His recordings are worth seeking out, I find him to be an extraordinary talent..

Rcprince, yes it was St. Thomas’ church. Youve jarred my memory. Thank you so much. I looked at Google images and that was undoubtedly the place. I was thinking maybe it was on 5th Avenue or thereabouts, but wasn’t at all sure. That church was a magical place to hear incredible organ music, while sitting undisturbed in that beautiful setting in the heart of Manhattan of all places. Do you recall the names any of the recordings made there? I’d love to find one and be able to play it at home.

Thank you for your other suggestions as well.

Rvpiano and lowrider, I kind of remember those Bernstein Young Person’s Concerts being aired on local NYC tv when I was a kid too. I don’t recall watching any though. We instead watched Dick Clark’s American bandstand daily, which Mom always had on when I got home from kindergarten. We were also discovering Little Richards "Tutti Frutti" and Bill Haleys "Rock Around the Clock", mom’s only two R&R 45’s.(might even have been 78’s). But those "Roll over Beethoven and tell Tchaikovsky the news" days are now officially over. Maybe it’s time for the old to rediscover the "Young Person’s Concerts" via some DVD’s. Who woulda’ guessed?

Mike
.

<I don’t think anyone has mentioned Leonard Bernstein as an educator.
He was the greatest introducer of classical music to generations of music lovers.
You might want to seek out his series of Young People’s Concerts on DVD as a start.>

This is an excellent suggestion. I used to watch these shows on TV when I was a kid.

I haven't read through all of this thread, so please forgive me if I am going over the same ground as others, but if you're looking to see the sorts of periods or genres you like, and you're able to stream music, I highly recommend both Idagio and Primephonic as classical-only sources.  They have playlists and podcasts that you can stream to sample various composers, genres, etc, and learn about them, and when you find something that you like it's easy to see and listen to the various recordings of the piece.  I also like BBC Music Magazine, it's got monthly articles about building a library of particular pieces,  and particular composers, plus reviews of the new classical releases of the month, and also comes with a CD that as a rule is well-recorded and might introduce you to new [pieces you might not otherwise think of trying.  And if you use the magazine's reviews  in conjunction with the streaming services, you can listen to the recordings that were reviewed and see what the reviewer was talking about, maybe you find a reviewer whose tastes match yours (or don't)/

By the way, was it St. Thomas church that you dropped in on?  That has a wonderful organ, and there are some famous recordings from that venue.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned Leonard Bernstein as an educator.
He was the greatest introducer of classical music to generations of music lovers.
You might want to seek out his series of Young People’s Concerts on DVD as a start.  Although these concerts were ostensibly geared for children, his genius at communicating will serve you well at the beginning of your quest.

Gerryah930, That’s quite an accomplishment for you to have been playing first chair, viola for the Boston Symphony and had have been exciting.

As you suggest, I’ll have to see what performers, composers and periods I do enjoy and develop my own tastes and preferences . There is certainly a wide array to choose from, Thank you for your description of which periods some of the major composers fell into. I might have known that at one time while in school, but that was more than a bit ago  Did you usually like playing the pieces selected for you and the Boston Symphony orchestra to perform? I’d imagine some pieces were more to your own tastes than others.

Do you still play your viola anymore? It’s a late start, but I’ve been considering taking saxophone lessons since retired on a brand new tenor sax received as a gift in 1975, but never played. Life got in the way, and it’s still new in its’ case, sitting on a shelf unused. I’d like to learn to read music as well in the process and some music theory would be undoubtedly be a worthwhile adjunct. Taking lessons is on the do list for this year soon as I  can score a Covid vaccination or two.  Life is still getting in the way. Appreciate your above suggestions,

Mike















Gerry

I played first chair, viola in the Boston Symphony many decades ago. Do not follow the common folk, listen for yourself. I highly recommend learning a bit about music theory, one is never too old for almost anything. As you may know, there are different periods in so-called classical music - Baroque (circa 1600-1760, composers such as J.S. Bach, Vivaldi, and Handel), Classical (circa 1760-1820, composers such as Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn), Romantic (circa 1780-1900, composers such as Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Wagner), and Modern (circa 1900-1975, Ravel, Strauss, Debussy, Berg, Stravinsky, Satie).

Inna, I'd prefer to stick with what has the best chances of being good anyway, until I can start to differentiate the wheat from the chaff. I'll have to go by reviewers in the meantime. I wouldn't know Karajan from Leonard Bernstein at this point other than you mentioned him and Bernstein was well known in New York, but hopefully all will become clear and in focus after a while.

Mike

Mike is right. That's why I suggested particular orchestras, Just about everything they perform is going to be at least very good. And particular conductors.

Sounds like some good advice Mike. Buying classical certainly does have some differences from buying jazz or rock n’ roll, There you might find cover versions of a song, but that’s for the most part irrelevant as you buy primarily on the basis of the performer. For instance I’ve all the Rolling Stones and Beatles albums and accept no substitutes. Your perspective on buying classical music, expressed above, differs from what I’m used to, does make perfect sense, and is the kind of thing I hoped this thread would uncover to guide my ongoing acquisition of classical music works. Thanks.

I’ve learned quite a bit on this thread and have appreciated you all sharing your thoughts.

Mike

Mike --
Sometimes, I’ve had a performance of something, and I thought it was fine, then a different interpretation made me sit up in my chair. A mediocre performance just doesn’t get the work across the same way. Most classical works have dozens -- important works have hundreds -- of performances to choose from.

In buying "complete works of," you are likely to get a big pudding with a few plums in it. Not my favorite way to know the music. One CD with music you love is better than 10 you tolerate.

Any two recordings will have different perspectives, different halls, different miking, thus different sound worlds. I haven’t mentioned the interpretation yet! Which appeals more to *you*?

I have > 20 version of the Goldberg Variations (of JS Bach), because I enjoy them & wanted to experience other ways they can be played. Now that I have Qobuz, I still listen to other performances but am unlikely to buy more.

So I’d go slowly, find which reviewers seem to agree with your tastes, and try to hear at least samples before you buy.

Larryi, yes it is the 157 CD Brilliant set. I wonder how it compares to the Deutsche Grammophon set There seem to be some slightly small Brilliant Bach sets too, maybe 144 CD's or around there. Had me a bit confused when reading reviews and ordering. The smaller set was available new on Ebay for $115. The larger set had the best reviews so that sealed the deal. I've started looking into those other complete works sets you mentioned.

Getting any composers complete work has it's appeal.  For the best jazz, rock 'n roll and R&B artists I usually try and end up with all their albums, With prolific artists like Miles Davis or Art Blakey that can take a while and be somewhat costly, Complete works sets of great Classic composers at such low prices per CD makes this an easy, economical and irresistible choice. Too bad you can't get original Rembrandts the same way. I will listen early on to that B minor mass you mentioned. Thanks.

Mike_in_NC, I'll find the Haas and Tomassini books you recommend. Sound like good resources to have. Like you, I've gotten to prefer CD's too, even if LP's may sound better. I'll take a look at the the Classics Today website as well. Thanks,

Mike in VA  

Mike--
Books: _Inside Music_ by Karl Haas still hasn’t been improved on. Covers classical music from a variety of perspectives, including instrument families, forms, time periods, conductors, and composers. _The Indispensable Composers_ by Anthony Tommasini is the second one to add. Profiles of the lives and work of a dozen or so of the more important composers.

I can’t urge you strongly enough to spend the $120/year for Qobuz and also whatever a Bluesound Node21 costs these days. It is a wonderful way to explore new and old releases and find what you like. I have about 3,500 classical releases in my library and have been listening to classical music for 60 years, yet I still find Qobuz the best way to select new releases. Your taste will not be the same as anyone else’s, and it’s impossible to know if you will like a release without hearing it. If you avoid buying one or two duds a month by having Qobuz, it’s worth it.

I am more negative than most on LPs. Yes, there are some classic performances available, but much more comes out on CD every month.

Also, the ClassicsToday.com Website, at $49 a year, will pay for itself quickly. Its hundreds of reviews monthly have saved me from some buying some terrible CDs and alerted me to some great ones. Especially if you’re not subscribing to Qobuz or similar, it’s a must.

Have fun!
P.S. I see that @cm6td also recommended Haas’s book and ClassicsToday.com. Bravo!

If your Bach box is from the Brilliant label, I have that one too.  There are so many works of his that are sublime.  In many polls of classical music listeners and critics, his B minor mass is considered the single most important work.  I would be inclined to agree.  The only kind of work he did not undertake is opera.  Complete works of composers like Beethoven, Mozart, and Schubert would also not contain any "dogs."

But, at any early stage of collecting, I would suggest surveying a wide range of composers and composition styles, including 20th and 21st century composers.

Twoleftears, I just finished watching the Beethoven Eroica film you recommended. It was quite good. Thanks.

Label 19, sorry to hear you’re from upstate. I don’t hold that against you much. Thanks for the link to the Classic reviews beginners site. I just now took a peek at it and will look through it more thoroughly.

Larry, so far watching youtube videos I’ve yet to come across anything classical that’s not likeable, I’m especially hoping that holds true for Bach’s works now that I own 157 cd’s worth. At a dollar a cd it was just too good a deal to pass up. There’s an awful lot of Classical out there to listen to though. But, If every single major composer had a similar complete works box set you could knock out a fairly comprehensive classical music collection within a few years that covered a lot of bases.

Mike

Many great responses here. I am interested in classical music and like yourself also like physical media. I am much younger than most posting here (29 years old), but also see the utility of not having emails, scrolling habits, screen glare distracting from the listening experience. Liner notes are also extremely useful for getting some background to the works.

As mentioned by others, “classical music” is a broad and almost useless term, though intuitively we all know what we are talking about. There’s so much under that umbrella term that if someone says they don’t like classical music then they simply haven’t been exposed because there’s literally something for everyone.

I agree that ‘redbook’ CD or SACD is the way to go for physical media. Although there is a tremendous amount of music released on hybrid SACD (can be played on standard CD player, reading only redbook layer), most classical physical releases are simply redbook CDs. Personally, I just buy what I want to hear and don’t worry about SACD vs RBCD difference. I will say, it gets frustrating for someone like myself who doesn’t have an SACD transport, but wants to play physical media and still get HiRes quality. The industry simply isn’t there for us non megarich consumers.

When thinking about classical music everyone thinks of the baroque period, classical period, and romantic period. There’s a joyous treasury of music outside of this, including renaissance and medieval music, modern music, “world music”, electronic art music, other meaningless labels that extend beyond the reach of what most people think of classical music, but demand the same attentive listening stance as classical music.

The website Prestomusic has a “record of the week” column that may be useful for you in terms of discovery. If you find something you like read about similar artists and branch out from there! For me, that is one of the joys of physical media – reading the contributing artists and picking up their work.

I know you didn’t ask for specifics but I have been enjoying:

21st century music:
A Far Cry – The Law of Mosaics – brilliant recording of Andrew Norman’s “The Companion Guide to Rome”
Hughes Dufourt – L’Afrique d’apres Tiepolo, L’Asie d’apres Tiepolo
Toshio Hosokawa – Gardens

Classical:
Mozart – Violin Sonatas – Isabelle Faust and Alexander Melkinov

Baroque:
Sean Shibe – Bach Lute Suites on Classical Guitar
Rachel Podger and Brecon Baroque – Bach’s Art of Fugue

Early Music:
La Morte Della Ragione – Il Giardino Armonico

label 19,

I agree with you completely about not overlooking chamber and other smaller works of any composer.  While symphonies and concertos paid the rent, a lot of composers felt more free to be inventive and not worry about public appeal when they composed such works.  I too, particularly like Schubert's Winterreise (I have nine versions on CD and a couple more on lp) and other song cycles and his quartets and quintets.  One of my all-time favorite pieces is his D. 956 string quintet.  If all he composed was what he did in the last year of his life, he would still rank among the best composers of all time.  Of all the Beethoven recordings I have, I listen most frequently to his late quartets and his sonatas for violin and piano.  For Brahms, as magnificent as are his Symphonies and piano and violin concerti, I think my favorite single recording is a set of Chorlieder (Kolner Kammerchor/Peter Neumann).

It's really hard to even suggest a path for discovering favorite music because it is so hard to predict what will catch anyone's fancy.  Someone in my office asked me to bring in some selections for him to get started with classical music.  On a hunch, I included something that is somewhat out in left field, and it turned out to be what he liked the most; it is a recording of Harry Partch's "Delusions of the Fury."

Yep, the Times and the New Yorker are still here, although less well-written than they used to be; and what's the point of the New Yorker if not the writing.  Ross is an exception.  (I don't live in NYC, btw.  I'm an upstater, and we, being completely irrational, think the only thing wrong with NYS is NYC.  But my wife lives down there and we commute.)  And to round out the big 3, I'll mention that a recent issue of the New York Review had an appreciation of Charles Rosen's writings.  Much fun to read.

I'm writing though, because I thought of one more good resource:
https://theclassicreview.com/category/beginners-guides/
I did some due diligence here, and read the entries on Brahms, Tschaikovsky, and Schubert.  I like them because they span the oeuvre, the big pieces, chamber and solo.  In these single-composer entries they list 10 pieces that, they claim, will give you a feel for the work.  You really can't argue with the choices.  They also recommend recordings, and there is nothing wrong about those they recommend that I'm familiar with.  (In particular, how smart to choose Carlos Kleiber for the Brahms 4.  I don't know anyone who knows this recording and doesn't put this recording at the top of their list although Audiogon, being Audiogon, will now find me a few.)

Two leftears, I’ll take a look at the youtube video, hopefully tonight. Thank you for the link to it. Just by chance Beethoven’s "Eroica" is one of the dozen or so classical albums I do have, It’s a version recorded by the Berlin Philharmonic, Director Karl Bohm on Deutsche Grammophon-Resonance, bought for my wife many years ago. So I’ll even have a reference after watching the video. To be truthful I can’t remember ever having listened to it myself. What a disgrace, huh. At least you all are helping mend my ways before it’s too late. Take care,

Label19, thanks for writing back. I’ll see if the local library system has either of those two books in it’s catalog, and I’ll find those blogs. I would like to get a variety of classical works in all settings as you suggest. I’d like to get some more complete works sets like the Bach one just ordered to hear a composers work in all it’s various forms which should be interesting. Maybe next month I can get another set. Appreciate all you thoughtful suggestions. You know I haven't seen the New Yorker or the NY Times for so long its almost surprising hearing you reference them like a New Yorker would, and that they're still around being read. Makes me kind of nostalgic. 

Mike

Sorry, Mike, I should have been more clear.  Alex Ross has a blog, therestisnoise.com.  He writes for the New Yorker and his columns are quite good (even when I disagree).  You might find him in his columns, as I do, too interested in the newest music, but he has a lot to say about the whole thing.  "The Rest is Noise", which is worth reading at the start, and "Wagnerism" (save for later, perhaps) are both recent books.  

I like Pristine because the restorations he provides by himself, Mark Obert-Thorn, and others, make historic performances much more listenable --- best of both worlds.

I also recommend, rather than narrowing in on a few composers, just listen to a lot of different stuff and see where your ear takes you.  I recall you're averse to streaming, but here it's where it's your friend.  For $15 you can get the Berliner Phil digital concert hall for a month and just plow through their archives.  You can also hear a lot of stuff on youtube.  
One fun thing to do with it is to compare different artists in the same piece.  I recorded off of youtube a playlist of performances of Stormy Weather.  Of course youtube will never be your go-to source, but to build experience, learn new stuff, you can't beat the price.  And there are some things there that I haven't found elsewhere, like the Bostridge-Drake performance of Schubert's Winterreise.  

OK: Winterreise - One more thing.  It is easy to overinvest in the orchestral and concerto literature to the neglect of smaller ensembles, chamber music and solo performance.  Schubert's Winterreise and his C major quintet are ahead of the big symphonies on my desert island list.  Some nights you just don't have the energy for another big bash; also the big orchestral standards are sufficiently ubiquitous that the ear is  quickly jaded.  But the non-orchestral literature is so voluminous that it is hard to know where to start.  Beethoven wrote only 9 symphonies, but he wrote 32 piano sonatas and 16 string quartets.  And the best of these  are just as deep, as dramatic, as totally engrossing, as the best of the orchestral works.

Have fun!