How can different CAT5/6 cables affect sound.


While is is beyond doubt that analog cables affect sound quality and SPDIF, TOSlink and AES/EBU can effect SQ, depending on the buffering and clocking of the DAC, I am at a loss to find an explanation for how different CAT5 cables can affect the sound.

The signals over cat5 are transmitted using the TCP protocol.  This protocol is error correcting, each packet contains a header with a checksum.  If the receiver gets the same checksum then it acknowledges the packet.  If no acknowledgement is received in the timeout interval the sender resends the packet.  Packets may be received out of order and the receiver must correctly sequence the packets.

Thus, unless the cable is hopeless (in which case nothing works) the receiver has an exact copy of the data sent from the sender, AND there is NO timing information associated with TCP. The receiver must then be dependent on its internal clock for timing. 

That is different with SPDIF, clocking data is included in the stream, that is why sources (e.g. high end Aurenders) have very accurate and low jitter OCXO clocks and can sound better then USB connections into DACs with less precise clocks.

Am I missing something as many people hear differences with different patch cords?

retiredaudioguy

I think that the consensus is that the sonic differences are caused, not by digital issues, but by RFI or other noise induced in the patch cord leaking through into the analog circuitry.

Perhaps I am lucky (or hard of hearing) but yesterday I listened back to back to the Weilerstein Elgar from my Aurender SSD, USB connected to the Esoteric K-01XD SE and the same work streamed from Presto through the Bluesound Vault, TOSlinked to the DAC and detected no differences.  I live in the country, and my system is located far from any in-home electrical or electronic devices.  Also, the Esoteric unit is engineered to separate analog and digital processing.

My streaming is limited by drop-out in my internet connection.

 

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@retiredaudioguy. I am confident there are those who claim to here the differences between 568 A and B. Im equally confident they will hear differences between 568 A and 568A as in your first post. 

@oberoniaomnia  Oooh, there you go getting all logical and facty again. ;-)

@richardbrand The network failure you describe would drop any non-validated packet data received and request a resend until either a correct packet is received or the process times out. The last complete CRC error-checked and packet acknowledged is the last valid data. 

The sequence number is the byte number of the first byte of data in the TCP packet sent (also called a TCP segment). The acknowledgement number is the sequence number of the next byte the receiver expects to receive. One more TCP feature that ensures data quality.

When the missing packet arrives, TCP can reorder the packets based on their sequence numbers before delivering them to the application layer.

I'll stop here, but the more you study TCP, the absolute brilliance of it becomes more and more apparent.Remember, the idea was to literally have a bomb-proof network. 

J

@herman My first post on this thread mentioned the endless repetition of the same old tired refrains on this subject, and then I get involved yet again. I will try to remember this and simply tune out next time.

@sns 

Tedious as these threads are (here we agree), they exist because some folks keep spouting nonsense, rooted in ignorance and false superstition, as fact.

Come to think of it... Oh, never mind.

Until these folks either start educating themselves or stop posting, I am afraid these discussions will continue, even if, like you, I’d rather they didn’t.

@toyman +1    I tried about a half dozen ethernet cables before settling on the Sablon Audio 2020.  In my system, it was pretty easy to hear the improvement in SQ.  Better tone, timbre, dynamics.  More articulate. I have two in my streaming chain. 

@steakster thank you for posting this link, it illustrates my point.

Didn't know you were allowed to straight up hawk your stuff on What's Best Forum. Maybe you have to be a VIP donor?

I laugh at some of the discussions on this forum. I can tell the difference between DACs, Preamplifers, power amplifiers, speakers, and speaker cable, interconnects between sources which can be quite apparent.  With the discussions about Ethernet switch and Ethernet cable quality it's a wonder why my system doesn't sound like a transistor radio, or at best, an off shelf all in one chepo. 

I am very critical of my stereo sound. But can accept budget restraints and push as much quality as I can for my dollars spent.

I have been an information technology pro for 35 yrs, before that an electronics tech which has nothing to do with my ears. 

I cannot imagine my system sounding better for my money spent. I use a cheap $35 Ethernet switch over a 100mb/s network. Comcast claims audio takes only 5mbs streaming. ???  I have been at the brick and mortor show rooms and in that heaven, listened to systems 5 times the cost of mine. Did they sound better, well yes in some ways, but not in others. Was there enough difference in quality for me to upgrade to the next level. Nope! 

To sum it up, My picky ears which caused me to be critical about my sound is perfectly happy with the cheapo LAN, and Ethernet switch and I would be hard pressed to change anything. I completely enjoy the streamers connected to that cheapo Netgear $35 switch and it kicks booty.  Laugh if you want, but I laugh to the bank and from what I am hearing, it's great. 

chatGPT claims that anything over cat 6 is overkill for audio use & may in fact induce noise, stating:

Cat6A (and above) connects shield to ground through the RJ45 connectors, which means:

  • It may create a ground loop if your router/switch and streamer share AC ground via the shield.
  • It can carry switching power supply noise from your router into your streamer or DAC.
  • That shield can act like an antenna for RF energy and radiate into nearby analog gear.

I realize chatGPT is not the ultimate authority, but food for thought  

 

Each new debate of this topic brings new perspectives and experience with new configurations and equipment, I find it useful and entertaining. 
 

As a retired software engineer who worked on operating systems and used lots of protocols over the years, I understand well the argument from that side of the fence. However, empirical evidence, listening to different configurations, has confirmed for me that the last run to the streamer makes a difference in my environment, and for very little cost.

@devinplombier The folks at Sablon pay for advertising on WBF, hence the banner ad and he supports a Tech Talk thread about their products.

I know reading is fundamental.