@cudfoo - if your usb cable does not have the standard 5v line going through it, the may dac will not see it. I had to pass up a fancy usb cable that was designed without it (because it does not help sound quality).
Holo Audio May DAC
Just read a very nice review of this in Stereophile this month and after doing some research it looks like this one could be a very nice option for me.
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
It's made in China I think (or could be Taiwan?, and yes, I am very well aware that these are two very different countries. ;)), and employs a direct to consumer model to keep the price as low as possible. This does not worry me after purchasing a Jay's Audio transport from Vinshine Audio and having zero issues.
Just curious if anyone here has heard one or purchased? I'm very intrigued. I know the Denafrips Terminator is another highly regarded DAC with a similar ordering model, but costs a couple grand more than this one. Considering that one as well.
Thanks
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
It's made in China I think (or could be Taiwan?, and yes, I am very well aware that these are two very different countries. ;)), and employs a direct to consumer model to keep the price as low as possible. This does not worry me after purchasing a Jay's Audio transport from Vinshine Audio and having zero issues.
Just curious if anyone here has heard one or purchased? I'm very intrigued. I know the Denafrips Terminator is another highly regarded DAC with a similar ordering model, but costs a couple grand more than this one. Considering that one as well.
Thanks
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Hi all, I posted in this thread a while ago after purchasing my level 2 may. It was a good step up from the qutest and I enjoyed it for awhile. But it really is not the greatest dac out there, even at its price. I went to a wells audio cipher tube dac (much more realistic sounding - you could say analog or natural too). $5k retail, made in California. Now I’m running a lampizator Atlantic trp, also a tube dac, about $8k with volume control made in Poland. Takes everything up several notches. Holo May is a great and flexible dac, but it can’t match a well designed tube output stage. R2R is not the most important spec for a dac, I have found out. |
R2R is not the most important spec for a dac, I have found out.Agree, SD DACs can be very good as well but it can’t match a well designed tube output stageThis could be if you don’t have any other tube equipment in your chain, I personally think a tube has no business whatsoever within a DAC but that’s just my personal non professional opinion (tubes are a source of incoming RFI / EMI something you would like to avoid if possible inside a DAC) My specific chain has a tube preamp and tube amps, I don’t really need a tube DAC but a good well implemented DAC Many designers I respect have build these tube DACs, I know if fulfills a need but I don’t personally like it. but I totally respect your opinion @redwoodaudio EDIT: R2R's can be good as well and even tube DACs, it is all about the implementation |
@luisma - I personally think that’s a misconception about tubes, that’s it’s just for ‘tube flavor’ and electrically inferior to transistors in all important ways. Plenty of designers use tube output stages these days and some only tubes. MHDT, lampizator, wells audio, wavlength audio, audio research, line magnetic, primaluna, totaldac, line magnetic, jolida, nagra, audio note… |
@redwoodaudio as per my prior posts above, I have been comparing the May against a Lampizator Amber 3. In pure NOS mode with no external upsampling I generally would agree with you - the Lampizator held its own and was better in that natural/organic way that is obviously part of the tube output, even if not strictly neutral. However where I have found the May to shine is with the ability to feed it better upsampled/filtered audio via HQPlayer and the huge SNR = headroom for digital volume control and DSP. There is a ton of flexibility/tuning available there. With the Lampi the gains of upsampling weren’t as obvious and they generally have very poor noise levels. Bass was definitely not as good. My current pipeline to the May now sounds better than the Amber 3 in most aspects. That said, the organic/natural sound is still slightly missed and I will probably give a higher end Lampi a tryout at some point - Baltic 3 or Atlantic TRP. |
I just pulled the trigger on a May KTE edition today. This will potentially replace my PS Audio DirectStream DAC which I'm currently very happy with. (The new Sunlight firmware update is great.) I'm looking to move on from the DSD DAC because I don't want to be stuck long term with a discontinued product, but I won't hesitate to hold on to it for longer if the May KTE doesn't work out. Question for existing May KTE and/or DSD DAC owners who also have the Matrix X-SPDIF 2... I have the Matrix now and haven't noticed any difference in sound with my DSD DAC when running my Roon Nucleus to the Matrix (USB) out to the DSD DAC (HDMI/i2s) versus just using the network bridge in the DSD DAC. Is that based on the streamer limitations in the Nucleus? And would/does the May KTE really benefit from the Matrix/i2s connection? |
Oczed - Recently purchased the May to replace DSD. Unlike some others my initial impressions were not favorable. 1st day was a mess. Usually is though. Over the next couple of days things started to improve dramatically, after a week I was able to understand what all the fuss was about. The May is not just better than the DSD, it’s ground breaking at this price point. I can’t imagine anything under 10K coming close. It’s high end turntable/analog good and I’m only a week in. As far as the Matrix goes I found it to be better than USB direct. I switched from USB direct early on so I’d like to give that another shot soon. Would love to simplify and use USB if it equals Matrix\I2S. I doubt it will be better. Good luck. |
Hey Phil - This thing is sick. Would love to post on the PSA forum - don't think it would go over well. PSA is great outfit but not thinking that they'll be able to produce anything that would be able to compete with the May anytime soon. No knock on PSA - not thinking any other company will be able to touch this for under10k either.,, |
My May KTE arrived today and I concur with some of the earlier posts that the initial sound out of the box isn't impressive (and not at the same level as my PS Audio DSD DAC). But I was expecting that and am looking forward to having my first real impression in about a week's time after I can get 100 hours on it. I'm going to start with USB direct into my Nucleus, but will eventually give I2S a go through the Matrix. I also need to upgrade my power cable on the Nucleus which should boost the overall sound as well. (My long term goal is to get a dedicated streamer, however, for the system. Possibly a Lumin U1, Sonore Signature Rendu SE or the upcoming PS Audio Octave streamer...) |
My only concern is if there is a problem with the unit. Per Tim at kitsunehifi, re: failures "It's a case by case basis, depending on what's wrong with we will either repair it at no cost, or customer pays shipping/repair or send parts. IE if the USB module is damaged (not by the manufacturer) we can send you a USB module for repair. It is a module design which makes most repairs relatively simple. The warranty covers shipping for 30 days. If for some reason the DAC is DOA we will replace, it would be shipped to Hong Kong, and you would either be credited or have a new unit shipped back to you. For other minor repairs, it would be shipped to Lynwood, WA. We've replaced relays on the board as well as USB modules for various products. In general if you do not know what's wrong with it, you would ship to Lynwood, WA and we will determine the cause of failure. " I’m 70 years old, and am losing use of my hands for stuff like repairs. But. It’s the DOA and major repair thing that mostly bugs me. It has to go back to Hong Kong? Not repaired in the US? I absolutely LOVE everything I have read about the May, except repairing it. I have a lot of thinking to do on this. |
Tarheelneil: the May is really well packed and protected (at least in Europe), so DOA is highly unlikely. And IME, a dac is unlikely to need repairs. I would worry about a CD player or transport, but not a dac. And if it does need repair, I have experienced great service so far from Magna Hifi in Europe (don’t know about the US distributor), so I am not worried. |
Hey cudfoo, yes indeed, it’s sublime. I am sure there’s better, but probably at two or three times the price. It’s just so much better than the DS in terms of decay, soundstage, tonality. You are literally transported to the recording location and time. Right now, I am in Jesus Christus-Kirche in Berlin with Karajan and Eschenbach. As long as you don’t knock the DS (beware the cult of Ted 😉 and his fanboys), posting your impressions on the PSA website is fine, people do it all the time. I would just avoid comparisons. |
I was going to wait until I had a full week of burn-in before I did any extended listening with the May KTE, but I turned on the amp yesterday around the 24-hour mark to see how things were going. There was still some significant abrasiveness on the top-end and the bass was a bit muddy, but I was also noticing that the sound stage and overall resolution had started to clean up. I left my amp on for the next 8 hours and could hear more and more improvement coming through. The issues with the treble and bass were slowly fading as well. I know it’s cliche, but I started hearing elements in songs that I had never noticed before in either my PS Audio DSD or Lumin T2. In terms of the overall presentation (at least as of yesterday), I would say the sound was a lot closer to the T2 than the PSA DSD. The soundstage wasn’t as forward nor had the same weight as the PSA DSD. I’m looking forward to hearing how it sounds after I get back home in a few days. |
20 days and my KTE is really singing and opening up nicely. Great purchase. Thanks all your assistance/encourgment in my process. My question?? I'm consoldating my wired Network backbone to repourpse a closet and putting a gigabit 8 port hub, cable modem & router/ all network equip all in one temp controlled location. I will move my Antipodes DX3 server and its USB back up drives to this location but I will then need a streamer(new Roon endpoint) on the rack for KTE to feed via USB. What comes to my mind would be the Sonore Optical Rendu with it's elimation of electrical noise (dirty side) for the Optical Rendu (clean side) to be the new streaming roon endpoint. Any one have any experiences or thoughts??? I sent an Email to Tim Conor to see what his thoughts may be. Thanks in advance for your opinions. Jim |
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@nquery One other factor is that my amp is single ended and after some reading and talking to others about the Holo architecture and such, I am convinced that I am not getting the most out of the Holo May. The May actually only uses the output of one side of the R2R ladder for RCA outs, and Jeff Zhu even says the balanced outputs sound better. The other change I made (and mentioned above) was to get a quality Balanced XLR to Single Ended RCA transformer (cinemags) and see if that improved the sonics on my SE amp. I think there is an incremental improvement but haven’t really A/B’ed it yet.I read your comments on singled ended and only using one side of the May DAC. Did you notice any improvement? Maybe this is also why you experienced that the soundstage vs Lampizator is less holographic? Also you said that the May is not very forgiving to lesser sources. I am using my system for both TV/streaming consumption as well as Tidal HiFi Music streaming. Would you say the Holo Audio product is not very suitable for TV, Youtube consumption? I am considering the new Spring 3, as dac/preamp in my system, but a little hesitant to order for it’s supposedly unforgiving nature. @dvdboulet Holo Audio just recently announced their new Spring 3, which apparently uses the exact same DAC module that is also used in the May DAC, albeit the May has two and is in dual mono, so the sound staging is improved a little on May. But tonally they are pretty close. Tim of Kitsune apparently says it is 95% of the May, according to this forum post: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/holo-audio-may/22104/132 This seems to be an even better value proposition for people who cannot afford the May stack, especially with the optional preamp module for those looking for a decent preamp/volume control to start with as well. Also read what Jeff Zhu has to say about it, especially with respect to digital volume control as well: Spring3 PLL is nearly the same design as our flagship dac, the May. The main difference between Spring3 and May is that May uses our latest technology and cost is no object, therefore has better components. For Spring3, it uses the latest technology as May. But the main goal is to get high performance at reasonable cost, and I believe we absolutely achieved this goal. Although it’s price is higher than Spring2. I think the performance/cost ratio is higher than Spring2. It’s not much behind May! The pre-amp module inside is a very decent way to control volume, really one of the best ways. I think the digital volume is terrible, especially for this level of DAC. So I never added digital volume control on Spring and May, only on Cyan which is our entry level product. Digital volume is very easy and has very low cost added, albeit compromised. The reason we don’t use it is that ‘free digital volume’ will lead customer to use it and not realize it is not ideal for use with our higher end dacs. I don’t want misguide the user to use our DAC is that way. I think they will be most pleased with our fully balanced, discrete analog volume control for a low optional upgrade priceSource: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/spring-3-dac/ |
@eckie77 I didn’t notice a big initial difference with the Balanced to Single Ended transformer to be honest but I also haven’t done any A/B testing yet. I put it in and have left it there. I think that the reason that the Lampizator had a more “holographic” sound was due to spatial depth provided by the tube output stage. That is really the only thing I miss from it. But nothing to do with balanced/SE. |
Thanks @eckie77, very interesting about that analog pre-amp volume control as an option on the Spring 3. I'm curious why they don't offer a similar optional upgrade for the May? After all, if someone wants "their best" DAC, but also wants this feature, why make it only available on a lesser-model (if I understand the hierarchy of their somewhat confusing line of products). I totally get and agree with not providing a digital-volume control. Thanks! |
I think that Jeff Zhou’s comments are true in general, but the May (and likely Spring 3) are in fact ideal candidates for digital volume control under the right conditions. The May has a very high SNR which allows for a lot of extra headroom when doing digital attenuation. It also has a very low output impedance for driving an amplifier. But you need the proper dsp setup using HQPlayer or similar with a high upsampling rate + noise shaper and ideally an amplifier that’s not too hot (lower gain) so you can minimize attenuation. In my case, the pre-in input on my amp has a 10gb attenuator built in so I can play within the top 20db. And I am using HQP to upsample to 1536 PCM with proper noise shaper into the May and thus already doing headroom attenuation - adding an extra variable 5/10 db’s doesn’t hurt whatsoever. To my ears, this sounds better than the Alps volume control on my amp (via regular line-in). But again, this only works well under the right conditions. eg. this was something that was simply not even remotely possible with my Lampizator tube dac. See this thread/post from Jussi of HQPlayer - https://community.roonlabs.com/t/death-of-the-pre-amp-and-hqplayer-digital-gain/18992/17 |
@nquery Thx for sharing your experience, seems to make sense the difference is only subtile. Could you maybe comment more on the "less forgiving nature" of the May dac. Are you also using it with lesser quality sources like Netflix/Youtube etc? I think that Jeff Zhou’s comments are true in general, but the May (and likely Spring 3) are in fact ideal candidates for digital volume control under the right conditions. I don’t have any experience with that other than putting a Topping Pre90 with stepped attenuator in my desktop setup between my Merason Frerot Dac and Heed Elixir integrated amp with Alps Blue Velvet volume control. The level of dynamics that you are missing with either using the digital volume control in Roon or using the Alps volume control is very noticeable in my setup, especially because I listen at low volumes a lot it that system. I always thought this was mainly due to the Fletcher–Munson curve, but volume controls have a big impact as well. GoldenSound made an interesting video on his channel as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD2Fj1tTu8Y @dvdboulet very interesting about that analog pre-amp volume control as an option on the Spring 3. I’m curious why they don’t offer a similar optional upgrade for the May? After all, if someone wants "their best" DAC, but also wants this feature, why make it only available on a lesser-model (if I understand the hierarchy of their somewhat confusing line of products). I totally get and agree with not providing a digital-volume control. I think they don’t offer that on the May because that is a no compromise piece and therefore also focussed on a different crowd. From the reaction of Nquery you can already tell that the difference between SE and Balanced is very small. Maybe the separated power supply design will have a bigger influence on sound than the second Ladder Dac. Depends also on how revealing your system is in the end. It is actually quite common for companies to make a flag ship product and than trickle down that tech also to a lower priced product, to also serve a different part of the market. They assume that most customers that will buy a May Dac already own a very nice preamp and would rather see them buying the Serene preamp as well. So different customers/different markets I guess. It is the early adopters and flagship product customers that usually pay the biggest part of the development cost. In the end I will probably go with the Serene preamp instead of the Spring 3 with volume control in my system. I want to keep the flexibility to use a different DAC and digital front-end for lesser quality sources like cable set top box, Apple TV (Netflix/Youtube), etc. I will probably use the new Bluesound Node for that purpose over its eArc HDMI port. Maybe will upgrade to the matching Spring 3 dac for HiFi streaming purposes only, when they start to pop up at the second hand market next year. Although the Spring 3 comes with the optional preamp/volume control, it does not have any analogue inputs. |
@eugene81 Herb Reichert in a recent column/review, listened to the dCS Bartok and compared it to the May DAC. His conclusion was that the Bartok beat out the May, but only by a small margin (my words, not his). I am not sure if this comparison is yet available online as only I read it in the print mag (Sterophile) within the last month or two. Keep in mind that the Bartok costs 3X the May DAC. For me this is too much to upgrade to to make only a marginal difference. At my age I doubt I would fully appreciate the improvements, and $10K more is a large price to pay for that. |
I run my Jay's Audio CD transport into a Helen Titan jitter reduction then into a modded Holo Springs DAC feeding a hybrid Black Ice pre amp going modded Ampzilla monoblock amps feeding modded Silverline Sonata speakers. Inserting the dac into this system was sublime. The Holo DAC is off the hook natural sounding with great dimensionality. |
Congrats on your May KTE @martin-andersen. You will love it. I’ve tried Shunyata Alpha NR v1 and Sigma NR v1 cables plugged into my Shunyata Everest 8000 conditioner for the May KTE. I found both to cause a darker and veiled sound in my system. I suspect that it’s due to the filtration in these cords. I now use an older Paul Kaplan’s HE with 3A conditioner box and copper connectors. Everything is more open, airy, natural and with great definition and extension. It just sounds right. On a separate note, I’ve found that a USB cable swap also changes the sound significantly. Of course YMMV. Happy listening. |
I thought my May DAC started to sound good at 100 hours, but the sound really does become exceptional after the reccomended 500 hours of break in. Also keep in mind that DSD and PCM are handled by separate parts of the DAC, so if you just play 500 hours of PCM stuff through it, the DSD side won't be broken in at all. I use a Luxman JPA-10000i power cord with mine, which has got to be one of the cheapest power cord options out there ($125 on ebay). |
You use the pre-in on the LM amp so the LM volume pot is removed from the equation. And then you can set your max volume level in HQPlayer to prevent it from going too high. You can also set ’comfort level’ in Roon which requires manual override to go higher. Alternatively/additionally, as mentioned before, I also bought a high quality passive transformer with stepped gain control to take the balanced outputs from the May into the SE input on the LM. Aside from slight increase in SQ, the stepped attenuator allows one to dial in max gain into the amp. Which in turn allows one to run HQP volume control at the top of the scale. But honestly, I don’t know if this is worth the extra $$ and box/cables. https://ampsandsound.com/products/black-box-xlr-to-rca-balanced-converter-with-input-transformers-an... Bonus idea: I then installed free Ropieee.xl on an cheap rPi endpoint and added a $20 FLIRC IR usb plug. You can them use Ropieee remote function to send mapped Holo Remote control volume buttons to Roon/HQP. The funny thing is that I am not using this endpoint for NAA output like most - just as a way to add volume control via the Holo Remote control. The end result is that I can actually control volume with the Holo May remote in a very well defined gain range. It provides for a nice integrated setup and one would be none the wiser that it wasn’t coming from some sort of pre-amp setup. I sometimes question whether these extra 2 boxes are worthwhile ... but even without them, I already do some room correction in HQP and I do think HQP volume control sounds better than LM volume pot. And the most recent benefit is that HQP has added automatic loudness adjustments which increases the low shelf as volume is turned down - absolutely fantastic for low-level, late night listening. All in all, this is the best digital sound I have had in my system. |
I've ordered the May KTE edition from Wildism HK but with a change of plan I want to cancel my order. Yiu, Wildism contact person, told me that I cannot cancel my order as it has specific specs and presumably he cannot sell the unit to others even though I told him I don't mind to pay for cancellation fee. Is this a too restrictive policy? Do they treat international customers differently? |
A couple things - if it’s being shipped to you in a matter of days then it’s already built (obviously) and with a lead time of 6 week build time to ship, your cancellation is very late in the process. They would lose a lot of money on a unit just sitting as well as time put into it. More importantly they must have a cancellation policy that you should have been aware of prior to ordering? - you will be able to sell it without problem, so I wouldn’t worry about it. You may be out a few bucks for some shipping or whatever but this isn’t a money making hobby |
Holo Audio is pretty clear about cancellations both at the time of order, and on their Terms and Conditions page: "Refunds on Holo Audio, LCR-1 MK5/MK4 Phono Stages, and any other special order items.
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This comparative review might be of some interest in this thread. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-holo-may-l2-dac-and-the-musetec-audio-lks-audio-mh-da0... |
