Holo Audio May DAC

Is it possible to get these dacs with a home trial period?

@jjss49 It does not. 

Hard to say about the investment value, but I personally found the May much more compelling than the PS Audio DSD.  The only thing I preferred with the PSA was being able to use the Bridge II input, but that concern doesn't apply to you.

Well, the boredom associated with social isolation and the threat of dying upon leaving the house finally got me to place an order. Curious to hear how the May compares to my lovely Audio Mirror T3-SE. Twice the price, but who knows in this hobby.

I believe in NOS, silver, and separate power supplies, and it’s rare to see all 3 in a DAC... regardless of price. The stereophile product of the year award doesn't hurt either.

Great, thanks so much for the information JC. Always super informative to know the within-system pecking order...

@jcarcopo Congrats on the great outcome. Could you mention some of the other dacs you've had in the system? Thanks.

Congrats @kmmd. Hope you love it. I'm on the first few hours of mine. So far so good. Always good if you're not immediately missing your old unit while the new one is still warming up and breaking-in. A promising start. 

@snackeyp you should email stereophile with a link to your first post and say "what took you so long??"

@snackeyp Thanks for the information. Appreciated...

@nonoise Indeed. I just don't buy the pure measurement perspective pushed by ASR, but it appears that this dac measures quite well and is a real technical achievement: 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-holo-audio-may...

Ha. I guess in that case "thank you!" instead...

@cd45123 I'm still naïve in regards to the Holo products, but I've had the Directstream DAC in my system (posted on agon) twice for extended periods.  It just never worked for me.  My theory is that some people (and systems) are particularly sensitive to phase coherency and that something about the DSD's processing is influencing phase.  Whatever it is, that product sounds like it puts the music into a blender to my ears.  I was so happy to find a R2R dac (the Audio Mirror T3-SE) that eliminated whatever was happening and just sounded so much more natural to my ears.  Clearly other people with different ears and systems are having a *very* different experience with the DSD.  I'll note that I had a PS Audio PWD II for many years and loved it.  I downgraded back to it the two times I tried to move on to the DSD.

Thanks George.  I was just reading about the Directstream and the designer was discussing how they paid special attention to phase preservation, so perhaps that's not the source of my issue.  Perhaps it is just as simple as being bit-perfect (although I haven't really had that issue with other non-bit-perfect dacs). 

Unfortunately it looks like kitsune has discontinued the home demo/trial offer. I emailed them and was told it's no longer feasible. A shame, tough to buy unheard...

I think he's just referring to the AK4137  chip that handles all upsampling. But you're right that the standard r2r modules are still involved. See below:

From: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/

"The oversampling is done by AK4137, ‘OS PCM’ converts the input stream to PCM no matter it is PCM or DSD, then send to DAC. ‘OS DSD’ converts the input stream to DSD no matter is is PCM or DSD, then send to DAC. ‘OS’ over-samples the input stream. If it is DSD input, it over-sample to DSD256. If it is PCM input, it over-samples to PCM384K or 352.8K ‘NOS’ does no oversampling. send the input stream directly to DAC module.'

Wow, two *very* different approaches for the Holo vs AB. NOS vs upsample everything to dsd512. Would be an interesting and informative comparison.

Ha! Indeed.

And it appears that there is significant consensus that the May is better in NOS mode. 

I'm solely redbook pcm, so the NOS performance was the primary reason I chose the May. 

When I got my Audio Mirror I had seven different dacs in the system over a month or two period and became convinced that R2R was the best way forward for redbook (although I'd happily perform no-risk trials of other approaches!)...

@thenewguy007  I presume you've seen the Audio Mirror T3 thread (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/another-new-dac-audio-mirror)? 

Quite a few users reporting back in there (and you can see my personal review where I compare it to the other recent dacs I'd had in the system... PS Audio PWDII, PS Audio DSD, Lampizator Amber 3, ifi iDSD Pro, Shiit Bifrost 2, & Matrix X-Sabre Pro).    

Regardless, I'll certainly report back here at some point.  Gonna be a while until I get the May unfortunately... they say 4-5 weeks.

I'm personally against USB, but am probably just biased from using a non-specialized computer input long ago.  As long as you've got a quality USB out, it looks like the May's USB input measures very well (and supports higher input rates if that's your thing).

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/kte-may-technical-measurements.8933/

FYI for people wondering about lead times. I just got my shipping notification. Ordered on December 2nd, will arrive on 12/28. 

@jriggy Yep. The only offer I could get was a 15% restocking fee (plus shipping both ways, $250 was what they charged me for shipping from China). Defintely cheaper just to resell.  Still breaking mine in. It sounds good, but also hasn't blown my audio mirror out of the water yet.

@yyzsantabarbara As you can see here, https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/kte-may-technical-measurements.8933/ the balanced outputs measure better. Atkinson at Stereophile stated that there were no differences besides gain, however. I haven't seen anyone do the subjective tests and claim one to be superior.

Agreed George. Given how low everything is, I doubt it's audible even if the measurement differences are real.

George, agreed that you know the basic character after a day or two. 

That said, I've had two experiences that have convinced me that electrical break in is real and can take a full week or so. 

I had a Pass Labs xa30.5 and decided to get their int30a integrated with the same exact amplifier circuit. Two days into listening (48 hours of play time) it still sounded worse than the original amp. I was told they would sound identical after a week by renohifi and they were correct.

I also built my own First Watt f4. Eventually I decided to build new boards with the highest quality parts available and when I excitedly powered up they sounded way worse. That remained true for a couple days. After a week of 24h/day play it became the significant upgrade I'd planned for. 

Just a quick note that I do feel like break-in is going to take a while with the May. I'm on day 6 of mostly 24/day playing and feel like it's just starting to come together. I think Kitsune recommends 500 hours. 

I read one report (for a spring 2 i think) where they put 500 hours on and said it took another 200 until they understood what all the fuss was about. 

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier in the thread and I missed it.

@georgehifi Honestly, I've only flipped the May out of NOS mode once.  Didn't listen critically, but did prefer the NOS.  I bought it explicitly because it was non-oversampling and the reviews have been so consistent in preferring NOS that I didn't really feel the need to bother.

@falconquest I have both in my system (see my system page for more information) right now.

The May is extremely clean and extended with great tonality across the frequency range. It paints an amazingly tall and wide picture across my soundstage.  The AM-T3SE is a little less even handed, but provides more body and "meat on the bones." It shrinks the soundstage more between the speakers, but also draws more depth and 3-dimensionality. It's obvious to me that both are superb dacs. 

I'm maybe talking myself into a conspiracy theory, but for people who track the distortion profiles of their electronics, it does kinda feel like a classic 2nd (depth and warmth) vs 3rd (clarity and details) harmonic dominance difference. A lot of good information on that from Nelson Pass in this link if anyone wants to put themselves in the weeds with me (https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/the-pass-h2-harmonic-generator/).  

It's feeling like I'll probably put the May up for sale soon. I think the "demo" has kind of solidified for me that I prefer 2nd harmonic distortion profiles and am going to exclusively shop for them in the future.  This also fits with my experienced preference for First Watt f4s (and Coincident 300b SETs) over Atma-sphere M60s and a Pass Labs XA25.

Anyway, I can let people in here know if/when I do. Feel free to PM me if you're interested and want to talk about it before I release to the general public.

FYI, I just put the May up for sale.  A great dac and worth an audition.  

I believe the front panel power switch is actually a standby and keeps some of the internals running to minimize warm up time. I know that was true of the spring at least (https://community.roonlabs.com/t/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac-does-dsd512/18516/5).

Could help explain why people don't notice much difference...

@jtrimm Congrats, that all sounds exceptional.  I wish I'd been able to hang onto mine longer to ride out the burn in process a bit more. 

Damn forced moves.  Everything's about to go into storage for 3 months or so.  Because of that, I likely wouldn't have been able to get up to 500 until after the pandemic was over (god willing) and at that point the resale market is going to be dead as everyone shifts their surplus income from equipment to travel.  

@jtrimm Thanks for the update.  Very frustrating I had to get rid of mine early.  Not enjoying the temporary loss of my system at all...

@hchilcoat My guess is that you're most likely to move sideways from the Lampi, regardless of the dac you try.  That's not to say sideways won't end up better for your particular preferences, but I doubt anything's going to absolutely blow away the Big 7.  

The thing that struck me most about the May KTE was how cleanly it reproduced every part of the frequency spectrum.  If you're finding your current presentation somewhat colored, or feel that a particular part of the audio range is being over/under emphasized, the May could be a wonderful sounding solution.

@cleopatra52 On the May (unlike the Spring), the transformers are the same copper model on all versions:  " Also each channel is individually powered by it’s dedicated Otype FLATWIRE transformer found in all three models."

Unfortunately I doubt you're likely to find many who've got experience comparing the different levels besides Kitsune and Holo themselves.  It's a challenge to hear any model here in the states, let alone two versions. 

Although we've got very different opinions of silver (I put solid core high purity silver wire throughout my system and find it increases the naturalness of the sound), I certainly didn't hear any thinness to the May KTE presentation.  There was a touch of brightness, but I believe that would have washed away with more burn-in.

@branislav Hi there, I believe I'm the person being referred to above.  See p3 of this thread for my full comments, but here's the key paragraph of comparison.  Feel free to ask for further details.  Also, when I bought my AM, it was indeed a 2-week (or maybe 10 day?) trial period, although I asked for a bit of an extension and Vlad granted it without any hesitation.

"The May is extremely clean and extended with great tonality across the frequency range. It paints an amazingly tall and wide picture across my soundstage. The AM-T3SE is a little less even handed, but provides more body and "meat on the bones." It shrinks the soundstage more between the speakers, but also draws more depth and 3-dimensionality. It's obvious to me that both are superb dacs."

@georgehifi I was told by kitsune that those are not coupling caps. I think Tim said they are for power filtering. 

Congrats @cudfoo.  I've had both in my system, and confidently predicted your outcome when I saw the initial purchase posting. Glad to see you had the same experience I did in that shootout.