high power tube amps vs ss

Grannyring,
I believe you'd really like a high efficiency speaker with a low or moderate power(but high quality built) tube amplifier. You would appreciate the natural sound.
Regards,

I wholeheartedly agree with Charles1dad and others with like opinion who caution about amp/speaker compatibility. There's a thread running now about high current SS amps versus tube amps. Read the posts. There are some very excellent comments and much to learn. Suffice to say that the decision to invest in a quality tube amp is not just plug and play. Just read the OP. I don't have the energy to rehash all the issues again. But trust me, it's not just about tube warmth versus SS this or that. There are serious electrical issues at play.

I'd see tubes as having a low to moderate power (2 output tubes per channel) amplifier paired with efficient speakers and priced substantially bellow solid state gear. I've seen excellent vintage set ups that do not rip your wallet and sounding FANTASTIC.

Totally agree with Grannyring.Tube amps have soul and personality that ss can't touch.

Jond, I'm happy you are satisfied.
Perhaps its because I'm an old man who started in audio when tubes were all there were that I became so used to the sound of Telefunken,Siemens, Raytheon, RCA,Amprex,Teslsa. British Mullard and Brimar etc that I find the China and Russian tubes so wretched.
Not that I given up on tubes entirely, I stll have 3 tube amps and 3 tube preamps.
Only 6 German EL-34's left .Down to my last dozen RCA 12AU7
and 4 50's Tungram 12AX7 and 4 French 6Bm8's.

I sooooo want to like a high powered SS amp as much as tube, but just can't find one in the end. Hate dealing with tubes, heat etc..... Nothing sounds like a great tube amp however. The ASL Hurricanes are very special and high power. I have owned some great SS amps and hybrid amps that I thought would cure my tube cravings long term. They did not in the end.

I may need a high efficiency speaker to enjoy a tube amp without 11 tubes per side.

I recently switched from two SS amps (Pass XA30.5 and Parasound A23) to two tube amps (Prima Luna Dialogue 4 and Prima Luna Dialogue 7). FWIW, I am very happy with the new tube amps. To my ears, the tube amps are less neutral than the SS amps. But what they lack in neutrality they make up for in personality. They may not be particularly accurate, but they are fun to listen to. At the moment, I don't miss my SS amps.

Having said that, I agree with the folks who say that you must listen for yourself. You can't take our word for it.

Bryon

French_fries, have you tried a good playback mono ss amp with your guitar?

"Creating is not the same as recreating.”

Whoa! That’s pretty deep... and I always thought solid state guys were a kinda shallow :-)

Creating is not the same as recreating.

after trying out several transistor guitar amps, some with plenty of watts available, i finally came up with the money to try a Fender Twin (all tube) amp.
totally incredible difference- the woodiness of the guitar clearly revealed itself, not to mention glorious overtones and that incredible overdrive distortion (problem- the volume was 3/4 of "1" and any higher would have had the neighbors complaining). OTOH, after hearing a VTL Wotan amp VS Halcro VS Rowland VS M.Levinson, etc. i have always enjoyed the sound of music on really good SS amps. i did hear low power triodes on two occasions and the results were not as impressive as i had hoped. the quality of the amps were really super though.
it might have taken several hours with them to get a different view, but their advantages were subtle to my ears.

Oh come on! Is that the best you can do? I made some serious allegations there.

Winggo,
Csontos`s reply is a good example of why you have to listen and gain your own experience.His apparent outcome with tube amplifiers(based on what he posted) is the polar opposite of mine.We all can tell you anything from one end of the spectrum to the other.Nothing can replace personal listening to decide what you like best driving a given speaker.

The answer is a resounding 'yes'.... EXPENDITURE! Nothing more. A better question would have been...'Is there anything to be lost'... Again, a resounding 'yes'.

Okay, I've pried the lid off.
1. soft, mushy bottom end
2. rolled off top end
3. non credible 'holographism'(the practice of desperately attempting to legitimize the gross expenditure associated with the hysterical belief in what is actually 'not' possible).
4. :)

I will have to disagree with Schubert on EL34's, at least in my amp and my system I have had good success with both Electo-Harmonix tubes and the Mullard reissues. Both cost much closer to $100 a quad then $3-500. Of course my amp is not high powered, just 17 pushpull watts so as always ymmv.

I guess I ve been lucky, in the 20 years or so Tube amps have been wonderful and most satisfying.I haven`t experienced the problems Schubert and Marakanetz have.In their case solid state would be the way to go.With the DHT tube amps I use currently they last for years and years.We all have different experiences to share.
Regards,

Marakanetz. only tubes you can buy for $20 bucks are those wretched Russian "re-issue" in which case there is no doubt a good SS amp is better.
A good quad of EL-34's will set you back 3-500 hundred bucks and are ,as likely as not, fake .

“My questions is: is there anything to be gained by switching to these higher power tube amps over ss amps?”

Tough question. It kinda depends on what a person wants from his or her system. Each type of amp has it advantages and disadvantages. This subject debated countless times here. Spend a little time and search the forums and you will be rewarded was plenty of SS vs. tubes thread. A seatbelt may be required.

The best amp is the one which is most synergestic tube or SS. I prefer tubes but one system I have sounds best with SS. I have tubes in other systems which are also magical. Try both tubes and SS. Carver and Manley, ASL Hurricanes are all good top fuel choices. Tubes will seem cheap to a transistor replacement and they do have a lifespan. A friend had his Krell mda 300s repaired...3k. 3k buys a lot of tubes, no free lunches. I prefer high efficency speakers. Pick your poison..... Jallen

Agree with Phaelon, the speaker's load characteristics(impedance curve-fluctuations and phase angles) will determine if tube or transistor amplifier is the best option.

Along with Isochronism and Larryi I much prefer the lower power amp with high efficiency speakers route for the same reasons they cited.
Regards,

Schubert, even if it's not NOS, the high-powered amp uses 6...12 tubes per channel averaging $20 each.

I personally do not like the sound of most high-powered pentode and tetrode tube amps. Many sound much more brittle and dry than good solid state amps. Notable exceptions to me are some OTL amps.

Most solid state amps these days do not sound grainy, brittle or thin to me--common descriptions given to tube sound in the past. Where they are often lacking is in dynamics at lower volume--compared to a good low-powered triode tube amp they sound lifeless and lacking in immediacy. There can also be a "mechanical" quality to the sound that comes from a slight artificial edge to the attack on all notes and a lack of the subtle variation in attack and decay of notes that one hears with better tube gear. With suitably efficient speakers, I prefer low-powered tube gear. For speakers needing more power, I like OTL tube amps, followed by solid state and then followed by high-powered tube gear.

Winggo, much more important than your speakers’s sensitivity is its impedance. If you have low efficiency speakers with a benign impedance, you can solve any power issue by adding more tube power. If your speakers have either too low or too demanding of an impedance curve, then tubes are not recommendable, regardless of power.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/bas/0808/

Schubert does make a point in that high power tube amps do use MORE tubes. Unless you are prepared to go with different speakers, as in very high efficency, low power amps use a much lesser amount of tubes. Then of course, some of those tubes can be a bit more expensive, tho they DO last a long time.....
Schubert, now why did you have to go and open up this can of worms!!!

What is to be lost are large amounts of cash chasing after the "perfect" tube of the month, in buying NOS tubes that "test well" but are near the end of their useful lfe etc etc.

Hello I think most great sounding tube amps are of the 75w per channel or less type. Because these amps drive high SENSITIVITY speakers well.Efficiency and Sensitivity are words that get confused when talking about speakers.Sensitive speakers that are 93db or better are great for tube amps. The higher power tube amps like the Audio Research brand are very good sounding and that would be a real upgrade from most SS amps. But, It depends a lot on speakers to. I use a Tube Pre with a 350w Solid state amp...I like the combo for my dark low sensitive 87db Dynaudio 3.0's. it drives them loud and crystal clear. for me to switch to tube amps I would change to a higher sensitive speaker.(that's a big switch for me though)I dont like Fatigue when I listen for a few hours at hi volume.And with this system I have NONE :-)

Matt M

Winggo, if you post which particular speakers you are using or have in mind, members will be better able to give opinions or advice. Some also just seem to have a personal preference of one over the other.
I happen to have ALWAYS preferred tubes by a wide margin. That goes for guitar amplifiers, as well. Some prefer SS for both. It is well worth your investigation, otherwise you will never know what you may be missing.

It's important experience, but smarter to switch back from tubes.

The answer is to dependent on the actual speakers you would be using. If you tend to prefer the sound of tubes and if the speakers are "tube friendly" but are of low efficiency than the large powered tube amps might just be your cats meow. If you live someplace really cold than the added gain will be that your amps will also act as an excellent room heater.