If Randy and you and the others are realists I'm the King of Siam.
Hearing is believing?........power cables.......
For anyone who is skeptical about the difference a high quality power cord can make in your high quality audio system........try it.......hearing is believing. About 10 years ago when I bought my first "entry level" hifi system (B&K amp/preamp, Canton speakers) my audio advisor dropped off a Tara Labs Prism power cord. He said just try it for a week and if you don't think it makes a difference just return it. I, like most unfamiliar with high quality cables, was skeptical.......how could a cable 1 meter long from the wall to my equipment make a difference? I put it on the power amp and yes I could definitely tell there was a more defined bass and overall clearer soundscape. I'm a musicians, so I figured maybe the "non audiophile" can't hear the difference. So my brother-in-law who is a bricklayer came over and we did a blind listening test. I randomly switched the Tara, sometimes trying to fool him......told him I switched but didn't........he could tell every time I used the Tara! So I was convinced that it was "wishful thinking on my part or particularly sensitive ears. If you don't think a great power cable can make a difference........take the challenge. Try one for a week and see (hear) for yourself!
215 responses Add your response
I think what Randy and I and other realists are saying is that once some
very basic and inexpensive length/guage requirements are met, nothing
is to be gained by spending sometimes insane amounts on aftermarket
cabling...wasting money on them is ludicrous. If better performing power
cables were really necessary, audio component manufacturers would
surely provide better cables with their equipment. To not do so would
make no sense. I don’t know how many different ways there are to say
this..."exotic" cables are designed, marketed and sold to fix problems
that do not exist.
(quote from dynaquest14). And this is the exact reason why dynaquest4 and the like will never "get it". The reason why manufacturers don't provide "upmarket power cables" is the same reason why manufacturers don't provide upmarket Interconnects and generally don't provide upmarket tubes. Imagine the added cost to a component. There are hundreds of Interconnect manufacturers and a fair percentage of Power Cable manufacturers. The chief designer says to his R&D team "We're going to supply upmarket Interconnects, Power Cables and Tubes for our components. Now get to work and find the best matching IC's, PC's, Tubes". R&D come back 12 months later. "Yep we found the right matching cables & tubes". "How much did that cost?" "$200k in component costs for testing all the different cables and $200k in labour for hundreds of hours of listening tests". Said $5K component now costs $9K. Doesn't make economic sense. Even if they just threw in random $100 cables & $200 of tubes. That $400 by the time it gets to the middleman and then the retailer becomes closer to $1K. Once again makes no economic sense. The majority of passionate audio buyers will want to swap out their own cables, tubes anyway to get their own signature sound and synergy with the rest of their system. Remember one sound doesn't suit all. A great example of this recently was when I A/B'd two CD Players from the same manufacturer, the Vincent CD-S8 & Vincent CD-S7DAC, both very fine sounding CD Players. I placed some Silver XLR's (which sounded nice on the CD-S8 but sounded "too bright" on the CD-S7DAC).If Vincent included these with all their CD Players, there would be some disappointed CD-S7DAC owners who've paid for a cable that doesn't match well. Some years ago I purchased a Power Amp which had an upmarket (not expensive but better than the throwaway PC) Power cable hard wired. About four years ago I had the cable replaced with an IEC socket .And guess what, I found a better matching Power Cable which increased the sound quality of the Power Amp. I've done extensive testing of Power Cables. Some that match well with certain Pre-Amps, don't fare quite as well with certain CD Players and vice-versa. Yep a well made, well engineered, well matched Power Cable accompanied with good Power Treatment/Conditioning will undoubtedly allow good quality Audio Components to perform closer to their potential. Absolutely no question. And it doesn't need to cost a king's ransom. |
For my own enlightenment - I would like to understand from members with tube components in their systems... Have you experienced significant improvements by installing a quality power cables on your tube components - or were the improvements of a more subtle nature ? I currently have a Solid State rig, but I did own a tube amp a few years ago. - I do not recall hearing the same level of improvements using that tube amp with a quality power cable that I now hear with my solid state amp. But then, I did not have the same power cables I have today either. :-) I'm thinking that perhaps with the higher internal voltages used in Tube gear, the benefits that may be derived from installing a quality of the power cable on solid state components is less of an issue where tubes are concerned? Thanks in advance - Steve |
rodman9999: I agree that phenomena is a more common plural form of the singular - however, both Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary and Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of English Usage list the possible plural forms as phenomena when the meaning is an observable fact or event but phenomenons when the meaning is an exceptional, unusual, or abnormal person, things, or occurrences. Thus my usage. Steve (williewonka): Nicely written opinion but I do not agree. If I buy a $2500 stereo power amp and the manufacturer provides me a $9.00 (bulk wholesale) power cord, it is, I believe, because that power cord provides power correctly and accurately. If he found that a power cord costing 10 times as much provided the "eye-opening, jaw dropping" (or even subtle but definite) improvements as reported by "you guys," he could substantially upgrade the cord and the amp's performance for only a 3.5% increase in the retail cost (assuming he did not mark-up the additional cord cost). Who would not want their product (in my example a power amp) to perform dramatically better for so relatively little? Please don't ask what aftermarket power cables I have tried because I have tried none. My system sounds so good to me, I don't feel a need to spend time and money putzing around trying to increase the "analog-like liquidity" (and all the other voo-doo magic terminology used here) of a perfectly good system. I have speaker cables by Kimber Kable and Wireworld RCA interconnects. They provided no increase in SQ over Monoprice products. Is it just me...my ears? Maybe. And if so, I am very fortunate. I can listen to music that sounds incredibly wonderful to me and will never have to spend an additional penny on cables, wire, cords, smoke, butterflies, rainbows and mirrors. |
Dynaquest4 - WRT audio component manufacturers would surely provide better cables with their equipmentand the same goes for outlets, connectors etc... However - pretty much all audio components re designed to a "Price Point" and are generally aimed at bettering other components in the same snack bracket. To include a good Power cable would drive up the cost and ultimately take them out of that snack bracket and lower their competitiveness. They also realize that people buying their products may also replace that power cable - so why include a good power cable when it will ultimately be discarded. Makes no sense in their eyes. I actually heard this from one manufacturer - who believe a good power cable was essential to get the best out of their gear I have conducted many cable upgrades to components priced between $300 and $10.000 and in each case I heard discernible differences. That does not necessarily mean you would hear those same difference - it meas we all hear things differently - neither one is better - just different. e.g. - put me in a room of people and I loose track of the conversation with the person in front of me because of the ambient noise. Whereas my wife can track a single conversation across a full restaurant several tables away - comes in handy at times :-) We could debate this at length or simply accept, as I do, that there are people that choose to believe cables makes little to no difference and those that do. I do agree that there is little difference between many of the cables out there - but some do excel. Regards - Steve |
It appears that some think(or hope) the more they type, the more deaf we, or the more correct they, will become. There are phenomena(correct plural) that occur every second, all over this universe, that no one can yet explain. We can hear, "differences" and they want explanations, based on today’s Electrical THEORY. And yet, no one’s Science can(TODAY) even categorically define electrons, or why they behave the way they do. "Science" itself is in a constant state of flux. (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/electrons-vanishing-act.515106/) |
Enjoying my system creates a valid listening test for me... If PCs don't make a difference, then there's a lot of mass hysteria going on. as has been said a million times, just because you can't measure it doesn't mean there's not a difference. Also, just because there are stupidly priced PCs doesn't mean all are a scam or are a crazy outlay of cash. |
well put buy better speakers, room tmts, add on a new room... better source material, better DAC, isolate your turntable, etc. etc. all are proven with listening tests ( the real kind, not not some guy eyeballing a phat cable while listening) AND are supported by known mechanisms affecting SQ contrawise, there is no known mechanism by which an aftermarket power cable will affect SQ,, high-end manfs. eschew them and there are zero blinded listening tests showing a difference not having an expectation does not create a valid listening test |
I think what Randy and I and other realists are saying is that once some very basic and inexpensive length/guage requirements are met, nothing is to be gained by spending sometimes insane amounts on aftermarket cabling...wasting money on them is ludicrous. If better performing power cables were really necessary, audio component manufacturers would surely provide better cables with their equipment. To not do so would make no sense. I don’t know how many different ways there are to say this..."exotic" cables are designed, marketed and sold to fix problems that do not exist. |
Randy, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.. are you suggesting all cables are placebo? Here's my perspective: I came into cables expecting nothing. I had read enough about fancy cables to feel the need to disprove their efficacy to myself. Despite this perspective, I found my first use of non stock cables to be ear opening, despite what I was expecting and hoping to prove to myself. So don't think all of us cable proponents are nothing but fools brainwashed by cable company hype. Some of us, many of us even, came around reluctantly to cables. So, please either come out and say what you mean, or just move along. I don't understand why some people are insulted or angry that other people are into after market cables.. I know some of the prices are stupid. But there are inexpensive and DIY options, so just slamming all cables because some are outrageously priced shows a lack of subtlety in thinking. Out of curiosity, what types of cabling have you tried? |
I definitely meant it in the ’hey kid, try this awesome stuff’ way.. The cable is definitely calming down, I’m very happy with its sound. I won’t bother confirming whether my soundstage has gotten wider, etc, etc, only because, if you’ve already suggested it, then I’ll be primed to hear it. I do believe that what I called increased space between instruments and improved clarity after my first listen could easily be interpreted as an increase in soundstage.. besides sounding great, though, I'm really impressed how much it has reduced the hum in my TT, which wasn't really all that bad, but now it's hardly audible from 1'. Either way, the helix is definitely a great design. I’ve posted links to your info blog in numerous threads around here.. it’s funny, though. People just like to buy the fancy bulk cable and expensive connectors for DIY. Ain’t nobody wanna work for their cables! :-) |
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@toddverrone... You're a pusher!Sorrrrry - Guilty as charged :-( I tend to get over enthused about this stuff - I've seldom had anyone provide feedback on the Helix before Regards... Steve :-) |
You're a pusher! I don't want to disassemble my current Interconnects to build new ones. I'd rather keep them to use between the DAC and pre. So I'll have to wait until I have the cash to buy a new set. If I totally love the helix ICs, then I'd consider dismantling the old set.. though I could gut them and use the two silver conductors to make two sets of ICs. Hmm |
Todd - I hear ya (LOL) I just finished a 9ft extension cable... - LIVE: 9ft of DH Labs Power Plus http://www.silversonic.com/docs/products/PowerPlus.html - NEUTRAL: 3 x 24 ft -14 gauge conductors - Cryo Mil-Spec silver plated stranded Copper https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/1097-mil-spec-14-awg-silver-plated-copper-cryo-treated-green - GROUND: 12 gauge Teflon.Copper (home Depot.) The ground and the neutral conductors provide close to 100% coverage of the live conductor, so it is very well shielded. The three 14 gauge neutral conductors were coiled onto the rod all at once, but for a cable that long you need a 6ft rod. I had to lay the three neutral conductors out down a hallway to prevent tangles My thumbs were numb after that, even though I used gloves. The three 14 awg neutral conductors are equal to a 9 gauge conductor, which makes it a little thicker than the 11awg live conductor. Seems a thicker neutral is the way to go from what I am reading. And it's much easier to wind. Glad to hear there were mostly positive results, but I agree with your assessment about allowing plenty of time for burn-in - about 50-60 hours should do it, but 100 will be better. The cable should become more mellow, but with much faster dynamics Did you happen to notice any image improvements - like - better 3 dimensional presentation front to back and up and down - wider image - image envelopes the listener - i.e. you hear things behind you You should hear that once you get a Helix IC between the pre/main amps :-) Keep the updates coming - thanks |
@williewonka holy crap. I have blisters on my hand from making this last cord. Wrapping 12.5' of 12 gauge wire around a fiberglass rod 3 times is hard work. And I'm a rock climber! The helix cable was made with: : Silver plated copper sonarquest IEC and mains connectors :5' 10awg silver plated, teflon insulated copper live conductor : 12.5' 2x12awg silver plated, teflon insulated copper neutral conductors : 12.5' 12awg THHN stranded copper ground conductor Both the connectors and live conductor were used in previous cables, so are somewhat broken in What I've noticed so far: : Bass is more powerful and smoother : Increase in mid and high frequency presence and separation : A faint hum I've had when using my turnable has been reduced Differences are relative to my last cable: braided cat 5 plenum, equivalent to 9awg per conductor, with there same connectors (silver plated sonarquest) I'm hoping that the highs calm down as the cable breaks in. If they don't, I'll have to get the same OCC conductors I have on the PCs on my amps. Or a solid silver conductor.. oooh. |
Nonoise, I think that if those that do hear a difference can explain exactly what differences were heard, then those people that have a hard time believing, will actually take the time to listen more intently from that point on. Personally I find no value in phrases such as "the veil has been lifted". It tells me nothing I think that for the most part, many of the cables on the market i.e. within each specific "snack bracket", provide a similar level of performance to the untrained ear and so no improvements due to cables were observed Personally, I have a collection of tracks that I use to assess component performance and I have found that not all the tracks have always highlighted improvements. So listening to just those tracks would make it seem that there is no improvement. Over time the tracks in that list has changed dramatically, but even now I still find other tracks that highlight a specific aspect of a cables performance, so I add it to the playlist. It's no different from any other obsession, golf, cars, photography, etc. etc. At least we get to choose to comment or not.:-) Cheers |
I could hear a difference after installing each of four tweaks: cleaning connections, new power cord, new receptacle, new fuses. This leads me to think it's possible that I hear a difference because I'm listening for a difference. It's not that i have an expectation of improvement, but that possibly my state of listening has changed. I'm not being snarky, and I did say it is "possible," and I'm keeping all the tweaks. Just saying that this might contribute to the experience that "everything makes a difference." Somewhat like the washed car drives better. Perhaps, "Personal attention to a system produces heightened appreciation of its performance." I could be wrong, which is okay because I like taking care of my system and hearing the results. |
Todd - if you do try the CAT5/6 Helix version - use two twisted pair (i.e. 4 conductors) for the Neutral - leave twisted - one twisted pair for the "floating shield" and only connect it at the source end - leave twisted - one single piece of CAT5/6 conductor for the signal conductor (i.e. one strand, not a twisted pair) That should give you some great results for very little outlay Once you are convinced and want to step up - follow the formula on my web site I’ve tried several permutations but having a thicker gauge neutral seems to pay dividends - but I’m not sure why yet. Regards... |
Hey hddg: I assume I am the uneducated "troll" you are referring to in your recent post. I do disagree with the premise that an expensive power cord is going to improve the audio performance of a component. I chose to state that opinion here. I believe that I have the right to politely disagree - without you, for no other reason than that I disagree, referring to me as a troll. |
Todd - Since you have the KLE Innovations RCA’s on an existing IC, I would encourage you to try them on a Helix geometry. I had originally installed the Silver Harmony onto a pair of Stager Silver Solids - a great commercial Tight-twist IC for a really good price. The Harmony RCA’s elevated the Stager’s to another level of performance. But my experiments with the Helix got the better of me. The Helix V is the culmination of about two years of development and listening. Its predecessors employed CAT5/6 - so you could start there. The greatest attribute of the Helix V is their ability to recreate the venue space around the artist - and also me - the listener. A comment from my neighbor - "so how many speakers do you have hooked up?" - Needless to say he was amazed at the answer. I’ve stopped listening for bass depth, control, clarity, etc. - all the traditional metrics - I now listen for - reality and sense of space. Unfortunately one IC is unable to accomplish this completely on its own - but replacing the IC between your main amp(s) and pre-amp is a great place to start. You are well on your way with the PC’s - now you’ve done that, the IC’s will allow your components to really show their stuff!. If your experience is anything like my own - you are in for a treat. I hope this post has peeked your curiosity (shame on me) :-) One other factor that can impact the sound of these cables is the listening room and any applied treatments - which may well require some tweaking. As before - keep me posted - especially if they don’t pan out as expected. Cheers - Steve |
hddg - Hearing the difference between cables may not come easy to some members and often comes only after many hours of listening. Some people believe they should be able to hear a difference immediately, which is often not the case. I've lost count of the number of posts where a member has not heard what they expected from a cable after only a couple of hours of listening. Many of the cables I have reviewed require over 100 hours of operation just for them to get over a significant dip in their performance, after which their true abilities are revealed My own personal journey involved many hundreds of hours or listening and making mental notes as to what a cables reveals about a single track played over and over. I now have a playlist of around 40 tracks that I turn to when evaluating any piece of the audio chain. each track has been listened too over 100 times - so I know them intimately They each have their own specialised "audio signature" - like - dynamics and control - image and space - details and clarity Also, I can see why people do not hear differences, as often they are listening only for one thing - e.g. perhaps they have read a cable will enhance bass depth. If that is not "heard" then the cable had no impact on them, even thought the improved clarity in the upper register was superior. People tend to talk of the benefits of a new cable, when in fact it is the short comings of the cable that they replaced that is responsible for the improvements encountered But it is through threads like this one where people take the time to explain what they are hearing, that others will learn what to listen for and what to expect when we talk about things like allowing cables to burn in. That is how I learned what to listen for - reading the many informative posts here and then going to my system and listening for those traits. You mentione that perhaps they do not have a decent system - i can easily demonstrate what power cables can do with my $300 mini system. So I believe no system is beyond good cables - you just have to get the right cables. However, I do agree that the listener has to be willing to accept that there will be a difference and be prepared to listen more intently to the entire spectrum of audio in order to discern what those differences are - whether they be good or bad. As for the "trolls" - I tend to ignore those that post negative comments about the effectiveness of cables - I am quite happy to let them live in their own ignorance. As for the rest of us - we can learn so much from each other so that's who I focus on. Anyway - I'm glad you are with us on the "enlightened path". Most of my comments in this post are actually for the benefit of those members that are straddling that "Troll Fence" and are thinking about coming out. Regards - Steve |
@randy-11 why the crunk doesn't the @ work for your username?! I understand there is an increase in NVH. My last car was a bit of a toy that I played with and there was definitely an increase in NVH. The analogy of NVH in the audio world would be a decrease in WAF. My wife certainly did not like the increased NVH! @williewonka I have considered making helix Interconnects, but I made a pair of silver interconnects with KLEI connectors not too long ago and they sound amazing, so I'm not in a hurry to replace them. I'll keep you posted on how the PC works with the pre. I was considering trying to make helix speaker cables, but I may just go the biwired, braided solid silver route. Not in a hurry there either though. |
Todd - Thanks for the support, it's nice to know the cables perform well on other systems I think you will be pleased with the performance of a Helix power cable on your pre-amp. It should allow it to deliver considerably more details due to improved clarity. At least that is what I have found with source components. Since the signals in a pre-amp are comparatively small, I consider them a "cousin" to a source. Having a Helix IC between the pre-amp and the main amps would also work wonders - why don't you try one :-) The Helix cables work together to ensure the neutral side of the entire system stays at zero volts and noise free - hence allowing it to operate to the best of its abilities. Keep me posted - I would appreciate knowing how things turn out. Cheers |
Randy-11 - my ears let me know when improvements have been achieved because I hear nuances in the music that I recall from a lifetime playing musical instruments, namely - Piano, drums, electric guitar acoustic guitar, 12 string guitar bass guitar, mandolin harmonica and drums. When my system responds in a manner that more accurately portrays my memory of those instruments, then I believe it is performing better. I believe relying on what your memory recalls from actually playing instruments is a far better method to gauge system accuracy and improvements than a blind test. There are subtleties like... - the complex harmonics of the piano -the speed (i.e. dynamics) of percussion instruments - the complexities produced as the bow hits a stringed instrument - the sound that a guitar players nails makes as they pluck the strings - the complex sounds a slide makes on a Dobro guitar - the spitting sounds that brass players tend to make - the complex breathing of Oboe and clarinet players - the mind blowing rangeand complexity of a pipe organ - and many many more When a cable allows my system to reproduce those nuances better than another cable then I have heard an improvement - i.e. I trust my ears As I stated above - I cannot "prove" the science - but then neither can a blind test Regards |
The equivalent of a dam is the large capacitors in a linear power supply. If big enough and filtered appropriately then the power cord only needs to be specified properly. If too small then performance will be variable depending on many factors - volume level, power supply levels during the day, power cords and what else happens to be plugged in and turned on. |
@randy-11 - people definitely bling out their cars! By performance mods, though, I meant mods that actually increase performance, such as stiffer motor mounts, better air intake assemblies, engine tuning.. I think you caught that differentiation, just making sure. @williewonka - I started on another helix PC today. It’s for my preamp, it will replace the one I made from braided cat 5 cable. Which, by the way, sounds incredible and has not yet caused my house to burn down. But my amps both have helix cables, so I thought I’d see what one on the pre sounds like. Thanks for sharing all of your hard work. I definitely appreciate it. |
OK - I’ve read many of the entries in "page 2" of this thread and figured I’d throw in my 2 cents worth. AND - I apologise for the long post, but cables are complicated. First let me state: I cannot "prove" the science in the following post, but I rely on my ears to tell me when improvements are observed. The metrics I use to gauge improvements are - Dynamic performance (i.e. faster, more snap to percussion instruments - bass depth - bass control - clarity (i.e. resolution) - image (i.e. more spacious and enveloping) in the last 3-4 years I’ve experimented with power cables and IC’s and mostly with unconventional cable geometries. What prompted this journey? ... - I was installing a two-way light switch and tested each conductor with a digital multi-meter. One of the conductors that should have provided a reading of zero was actually registering a reading of around 38 volts. I decided to try my analogue meter as a backup - it confirmed there was a voltage, but only 13 volts. The digital multi-meter had a higher internal resistance, hence the larger voltage. I consulted the web and found this is a common occurrence on Romex that contains three power conductors (commonly used for this type of lighting application. The reason is - the power in the live conductor, transfers by induction, noise into adjacent conductors. Now, it is common knowledge among audiophiles that in order to minimize noise transfer by induction you do not allow cables to run in parallel and close together. So with this in mind I decided to try a braided cable geometry. - the conductors are cris-crossed, so it should minimized induced noise I first tried braiding three Romex conductors and found that cable outperformed a stock power cable. But romex cannot stand flexing - so it was not a good choice - so I tried a 12 gauge extension cable - it outperformed the Romex Figuring conductor purity would make a significant improvement I then tried braiding the conductors from a piece of Bulk DH labs Power Plus cable. Due to the vastly superior copper used this cable provided significant improvement in the metrics listed above. It even outperformed a piece of heavily screened Furutech bulk power cable having the same connectors. After a lot of thought I then developed the Helix design in this link http://image99.net/blog/files/be8de0c383c5434907610d6b55049e69-75.html The improvements are the best I’ve experienced to date. I then decided to try the same helix geometry on my interconnects http://image99.net/blog/files/4127b5fe2694586e383104364360373b-74.html They also provided amazing improvements in sound quality. So why do they work? With the helix design - the neutral and ground conductors cross the live conductor at almost 90 degrees - which I believe virtually eliminates the transfer of noise within the cable For power cables, having noise on the neutral side of the cable would impact the ability of the power supply to provide good clean power to the attached circuit - "dirty power" impedes performance For Interconnects - If you look at a circuit diagram of an amp... - the signal wire of the IC connects to the input - the neutral connects to the ground side of the component If noise is present on the neutral conductor of conventional interconnect cable it would affect the neutral side of the component and impact the performance of the components it is connected to because the neutral side now has noise on it. But consider this, noise from one component can also flow to the neutral side of a connected component, causing it to perform at less than optimum So all both cases - having a noise free neutral provides better sound quality. So do all conventional cables (i.e. those with conductors that are adjacent to each other) suffer from induce noise? - I believe so. They certainly do not perform as well a either braided, helix or tight twist variants in my listening tests. What some companies do to get better performance... - braiding - Kimber Cables - not so effective as the above - higher quality conductors and thicker insulation - the majority of companies use this method - different sized conductors - generally a larger gauge neutral line is used - now becoming more popular - tight twists - it reduces noise very well More advanced cable geometries are being developed all the time - but the simplest and most effective DIY geometries I’ve used to date are simple braids and the helix design. When I installed the helix design across my system, not only did the sound quality exceed what I thought was capable with my components, but each component ran several degrees cooler than with the stock cables. I also use quality conductors... - for power cables I use DH Labs Power Plus for the live conductor - for IC’s I use a solid silver signal conductor and a larger gauge high quality copper neutral conductor. Both Braiding and Helix geometries would appear to minimize the inductance and capacitance values of the cables, but that also depends on the insulation properties of conductors used. I've also noticed that the more affordable components show the most improvements - I have concluded that this is due to the lower quality power supplies that is often used. - My amp has a large toroid transformer, so the improvements are marginal - My Node 2 has a smaller transformer, but the cable seems to allow it to perform to a higher level FYI - I’ve compared my cables to some very expensive commercial products and I have yet to find a better cable. If you are not an advanced DIY’er I would recommend the Braided approach. It’s easy and more affordable than the helix and will provide a high quality alternative to commercial products. That’s my journey in a nutshell :-) There were many more variants, but this post is already way too long Regards - Steve |
cars are a good example of people adding bling - a good engineer can certainly modify a car for better, more sporty performance (at the cost of increases in NVH) rodman's post is a fine example of woo-woo - but not anything scientific indeed, lack of symmetry is one of the most exciting discoveries in particle physics |
Taking a well built item and modifying specific parts to increase performance is a common practice with tangible results. Have you ever put actual performance upgrades on a car? They actually increase the performance, go figure. So why don't the car companies make the cars with these mods stock? Who knows, but not having an answer doesn't mean the mods don't work. Same here. Tweak away and you will find you can change the performance of your system. Why manufacturers don't include these mods from the factory is irrelevant and a distracting question. The general consensus among those who try them is that cables make a difference. Understanding the science behind this would be very intellectually satisfying, but is not necessary to hear and enjoy the difference. Working knowledge of the biochemistry of arousal is certainly not necessary to realize how freaking awesome it is to have sex and enjoy it. Dynaquest4 - what different power cables have you tried? |
decibell says: "So far I experienced the most dramatic improvement when upgrading the power cord of my CD player. Analog-like liquidity, higher resolution, lower sound floor, more dynamic presentation, better dynamic differentiation and denser tone color saturation could be easily heard when swapping power cords. I also upgraded umbilical cords of my preamp's and phono stage's power supplies and was shocked because the impact of this upgrade was even more dramatic than the simple power cord upgrade. The overall impact was so dramatic, that I am now replacing every inch of reachable power conductor inside my gear. Is anybody out there smart enough to understand the physics behind these effects? " The better question is if you believe that such extraordinary mind-blowing results actually occur after these mods, why do the original audio component manufacturers neither endorse such modifications nor build them into their award winning components? Only manufacturers/distributors/marketers of aftermarket cabling, paid reviewers and those "audiophiles" who believed the hype and took the expensive plunge, tout the imaginary phenomenons these type mods produce. There is a reason this is true. "Analog-like liquidity"....really? That's a new one. Who makes up this stuff? |
@shadorne I appreciate your perspective - which I understand and agree to when these circumstances apply. In my case though, I don't think they do. Each piece of gear that I use has it's own dedicated 20 Amp line - running to a dedicated breaker box. The damn equivalent is a good analogy, but I don't see how a 3 ft power cord would be able to make up for a poorly designed power supply - assuming the power supplies in my gear is not able to provide the supply a damn would do. I don't use any power conditioning either. Just the change from one power cord to another one has major audible impact. The damn theory also does not explain why the umbilical cord upgrade can make such a big difference - since it only connects the damn with the gear that consumes the power - in your case this would be the river below the damn. |
I'm also of the opinion that, when upgrading cords, most of us go with a fatter cable than what came with the unit, so the increased conductor size increases both the current available (assuming there's not a bottleneck somewhere else, such as a conditioner or distribution box with smaller conductors) and the grounding and neutral path available for noise to exit the component. This is in addition to any smoothing or filtering aspects a particular PC may possess. |
@decibell Explain. Why yes it is quite simple. Power can be noisy and badly designed components and appliances can make the power in your home noisier (even to the point of affecting other components) Switched Mode Power Supplies are a major culprit as they draw high current loads and work at high frequencies. Think of a conventional power supply like a dam across a river - it stores the river energy and allows the river below the dam to be controlled and remain independent of the flow above the damn. A well designed power supply would be like a large dam across the river. The flow downstream is perfectly controlled and smooth. A badly designed power supply is like a very small dam or none at all and changes in the river flow up stream are transmitted down stream. An audio device with a well designed (usually massive) power supply sees only consistent smooth filtered power to the audio signal components and is immune to what is going on in your household electrical power. A power cord does NOTHING for a well designed power supply. You only need an adequate rated power cord and you are hearing the music as good as it gets. An audio device with a poorly designed power supply will see all forms of household power fluctuation right at the audio signal components and will therefore sound distorted and noisy at various times depending how clean the power happens to be. A different power cord may indeedhelp a badly designed audio device as most of the Fluctuations in home power are reaching the audio signal components. So very simple. Badly designed power supplies allow household power noise to reach those components directly producing your audio (line level signal etc) and very well designed audio equipment with large power supplies (good transformers, large caps and proper separation of power from line level) relative to the audio signal components will NOT. |
Does anybody know - and is able to explain - why power cords can make a noticeable difference? I'm searching for answers but don't find any. Shunyata's list of "misconceptions" is interesting to read, but it does not really explain what physically happens inside the equipment explaining the influence a power cord can have. https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/ So far I experienced the most dramatic improvement when upgrading the power cord of my CD player. Analog-like liquidity, higher resolution, lower sound floor, more dynamic presentation, better dynamic differentiation and denser tone color saturation could be easily heard when swapping power cords. I even recorded a CD for a friend to demonstrate the effect of power cords. I recorded the same (analog) record twice on CD - one time with original power cords for phono stage and CD recorder and after that with different power cords on both units. The mixed CD contains each track twice - so you can "swap" between both versions of the same track. The differences are clearly audible and my friend was able to hear the difference in his system as well. After this experiment I also upgraded umbilical cords of my preamp's and phono stage's power supplies and was shocked because the impact of this upgrade was even more dramatic than the simple power cord upgrade. The overall impact was so dramatic, that I am now replacing every inch of reachable power conductor inside my gear. I do know that the claimed shielding and/or filtering of some power cords does not explain this effect in my case, because my power cables/conductors have zero shielding or filtering that could explain any of the above improvements. Is anybody out there smart enough to understand the physics behind these effects? |
Let's see, what has, "Science" taught us? At one time observation, which fosters common sense, led those interested, to believe that the Earth was the center of the universe. After all, everything seemed to revolve around it. Someone invented the telescope and people understood orbits. Then someone watched an apple fall from a tree and decided objects with mass attract one another and Newton's understanding of gravity was the, "law" by which the universe was viewed. Then Einstein showed us that the universe kinda like a fabric of space and time, that objects bend, and other objects follow those bends. Proven, by showing that light is even bent, in traveling through that fabric. The Physics of the universe demands mathematical symmetry and lately, things just aren't adding up. ie: Observations would lead most to believe the shape of the universe to resemble a larger form of our own galaxy(a saucer), spiraling out from the center of what's called, "The Big Bang". A certain amount of gravitation force would be required, to maintain that shape, which requires a certain amount of mass(remember that required symmetry?). Guess what? They've now calculated the mass of the known matter of this universe. We're only 95% LIGHT of the figure needed for, "symmetry". Not only that, but- ever heard of the, "Laws of Thermodynamics"? Now that scientists are better equipped to actually observe and measure what's happening in this space/time continuum, it seems the universe's expansion is SPEEDING UP(contrary to, "common sense"). BUT, BUT- nothing speeds up after an explosion's energy is expended, RIGHT? SO- now we know that to have the gravity required to hold our known universe, in the shape we can observe and measure, we need to discover the 95% of matter, we don't know about. HMMMM, must be something called, "Dark Matter" out there. AND- what would cause the matter of the universe, to be speeding up in it's expansion? Must be something out there called, "Dark Energy" that we know nothing about. Then again- there JUST MIGHT be other universes(The Multiverse) out there that are exerting gravitational and other unknown forces in this one. But then, Quantum Physics is a whole 'nother ballpark. SO- the more we've ACTUALLY learned from Science, the more we know we don't know. Bottom line, real, "scientists" understand that to actually understand this universe, one must often abandon, "common sense". Someone once said something like, "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." |
