Sorry, I have the same question actually so I hope you don’t mind if I ask here as well. I’ve been looking at two brands only, the Gryphon and Vitus although there are few more. The Vitus especially SIA-030 is considerably more expensive even though it’s a used or demo unit. Nevertheless, I presume no one can dispute its quality as it’s supposed to be very good. The Gryphon Diablo 300 is considerably cheaper but it’s the Diablo 120 that is more appealing to me not so much about the lower price but reduced weight. It’s less bulky and lighter than the 300.
My question, is the Diablo 120 almost as good as the 300 if not as good? Has anyone compared both amps in the system? In some reviews, the 300 was said to be more dynamic and less dark. The 120 is said to have a ballsier or fruiter bass (whatever that means) and an overall slightly warmer character.
I heard rumors that Diablo 120 was more musical than Diablo 300 and that some people who didn't need the power of Diablo 300 chose the 120. But I heard it a few years ago when I was considering it. Perhaps now it is different. I understand, you are interested in new current Diablo.
Not much luck I guess. Anyway I found this review on the Diablo 300 vs 120. Take it with a grain of salt. It appears that the reviewer likes the 120 more than the 300.
The Verdict: I have to say that I liked the sound I was hearing with the Gryphon Diablo 120 better! Even if you took the price out of the equation, I still would pick the 120 as I felt it had a more balanced kind of sound. Does the Gryphon Diablo 300 have more power, undoubtedly yes, but that from what I was experiencing did not translate to a more pleasing sound, well for my ears at least!
While I was impressed with the 300, I must admit that overall, I think the 120 is better. The sound it produced just appealed to me more and I prefer the smaller design of it too.
Yeah, I guess it will very much depend on the speakers it is used with, preferences and db level you play at. However, 120 Gryphon watts is not little. Still, very hard to choose without comparing side by side.
@inna- I bought a demo Gryphon 120 from Sounds By Singer as they were closing down. I've found it pairs perfectly with the Dynaudio Heritage Speakers I also own.
I also run a tube based system in my main room that I switch back-and-forth every few months. The tube system is a Conrad Johnson Classic 120 EL34 amp with an Linear Tube Audio Microzotl preamp with QLN Prestige Three speakers.
Each system has it's virtures. I love the Gryphon 120 with the Dynaudio speakers because the sound is full, propulsive and dynamic, but with an underlying warmth which is almost tube like. The Gryphon 120 does have a dark character to the treble, so speaker pairing is critical. It did not pair well with the QLN Prestige Three speakers which are fantastic with the Conrad Johnson 120 or Audio Hungary power amps I've driven it with.
Am I happy with the Gryphon 120?
Absolutely. I think it would be an end-game amp for many people. It's hard not to be impressed with it. It sounds great with all genres of music, btw.
@ryderYes if you like a softer, more colored sound you will perhaps prefer the 120. When I met Gryphon’s Rune Skov at a demo in Stockholm he described all Gryphon amps as neutral except for two; the 120 and Antileon. ”Not the most neutral amps but the difference is small”
Has anyone compared the Gryphon Diablo 120 or 300 to the Luxman L-590AXII? I presume these two integrateds would sound quite different? I love the sound of the Luxman but am looking for an overall more punchy and dynamic sound, deeper and more propulsive bass and a more extended, airy and brighter treble. Currently the sound is little warm with soft and weak bass, and electric guitars in a track sound slightly subdued and smeared in the background. I kept thinking if a more dynamic amp such as the Diablo 300/120 will bring the guitars out to the front row.
Does the 120 lose a lot to the 300 in areas of transparency, attack and dynamics?
@ryder - It so happens I actually also own the Luxman 590axii. I currently run it occasionally in my office system, but it’s no longer in rotation in my main living room system. It’s also a beautiful sounding amp, but I feel it also requires the ideal dancing partner in a speaker.
I’m familiar with the sound you describe with the Luxman 590axii. It’s not the most dynamic amp and compared to the Gryphon 120 lacks a sense of powerful dynamics and propulsion to the music. To your question, the Gryphon 120 absolutely brings out the guitar and bass compared to the Luxman 590axii. The music sounds more immediate and palpable with the Gryphon. The Luxman 590axii sounds soft and a little ethereal in comparison.
I would not say the Gryphon 120 sounds bright or overly forward, however. I demoed the Luxman 509 (a class A-B) amp in my house and found it to be nearly shrill in my room.
@bluethinker thanks for the response, surely useful. Your experience is exactly what I’m looking for. Since you own both Diablo 120 and Luxman L-590AXII, that can’t get any better. It looks like I might need to proceed with the long delayed plan of getting an alternative dynamic amp.
I still love what the Luxman 590AXII does and will keep it as it’s a fine unit. The sound delivery although slightly warm is highly refined with a delicate touch, and as what you have aptly mentioned it will shine with other speakers. I may not have the plan for new speakers but I would still keep the Luxman. Apart from the 590AXII I also own the Naim 282/250DR separates and the latter produced a slightly more punchy and dynamic sound but lost in areas of refinement. Music sounded rough and smeared with slightly reduced clarity and refinement with the Naim on my Marten speakers. I appreciate the qualities of the Luxman after doing extensive comparison between the Naim and Luxman.
Back to the Gryphon, one of the concerns I have is on the dark treble of the 120 relative to the 300 mentioned several times everywhere. How does the treble of the 120 compare to the 590AXII? Eventually I might need to consider the 300 although it’s bulkier, heavier and more expensive.
@ryder I compared the Diablo 300 and a Vitus SS-101, both used. For my taste, Vitus was a winner. It’s not as muscular sounding as the Gryphon, but it had a refinement and sweetness in class A mode that I found appealing. Again, one is not better than the other, but it comes down to personal preference. Of course, I ended up buying the Vitus. Having owned a Luxman 590AXII, I can tell you that’s it’s not in the same league as Gryphon or Vitus.
Do you mean the RI-101 integrated? SS-101 is the power amp. I’ve earlier narrowed it down to either Vitus or Gryphon. I am aware vitus is also very good. But the price is significantly higher especially the SIA-030. I’m not sure about the 101 mk2 but it is said to be not as good as the SIA versions. The SIA-025mk2 is said to be softer in its presentation.
Anyway I’ll eventually need to pick one, will see how it goes. I need to do it right for once. Good to know either Gryphon or Vitus is a class above the Luxman L-590AXII.
@ryder- My pleasure. It’s a rare occasion when I can attest to qualities of multiple amps in one thread. Regarding the differences between Luxman and Gryphon models under discussion, the treble on the Luxman 590axii seems to fall in line with the general refined sound of the mids and bass. Nothing really is overly prominent - just a somewhat soft and refined sound.
The treble with the Gryphon 120 on the other hand can, with the wrong speaker, sound incredibly recessed. With the QLN Prestige Three, the treble on the Grypon rather disappeared, much to my dismay. Luckily, I had the Dynaudio Heritage Speakers around to try out. For the record, my critique of the Dynaudio Heritage speaker had been that the treble was too dominant.
Alas, once I drove them with the Gryphon 120 amp, the Dynaudio Heritage’s forward sounding treble sounded incredibly balanced and perfect. I suspect Gryphon voiced the Gryphon 120 with a “treble-forward” speaker. That is my singular critique of the Gryphon 120. From my experience, it won’t sound great with every speaker. But if you pair it with the right one you are in for years of pleasure!
Keep in mind that SS101 was Hans Vitus’ original designs with few compromises. Another advantage of SS-101 is that it can be used as an integrated amp due to a built in volume control, or you can use a dedicated preamp with it.
I have no doubt that the SIA-030 might be better, but the SS101 is miles better than the SIA-025 or any of the RI models.
It depends on what you mean by dynamics. Both have excellent dynamics IMO but the Gryphon has ‘more’ bass control for sure. However, it also contributes to a slightly darker character that I didnt care for. Vitus, on the other hand, doesn’t have as much bass control, but only in comparison to the Gryphon. It has a lot more bass than any Luxman for example. But what the Vitus brings to the table is the signature class A sweetness and liveliness (not to be confused with brightness) that is quite addictive.
Having said that, in the end it’s a matter of taste and not outright superiority between the two.
@bluethinker thanks again for the useful response, much appreciated. From your description it appears that the Diablo 120 may be voiced slightly to warm or soft in the high frequencies since it matches well with speakers which have a dominant or hot treble. I won’t be able to live with an amp that has a warmer or softer treble than the already warm, soft and delicate Luxman 590AXII.
As I’m buying used, I won’t be able to try but will likely go with either 300 or 120. Another available option recommended to me is the Audionet Watt but I’ll pass.
@arafiq thanks. I don't have any doubts the Vitus is excellent, though I have a preference for amps which are not too huge or heavy. The Diablo 300 is actually the limit for me, 120 more ideal. The SS-101 would be too much for me, not only the weight but the price as well. The SIA-025mk2 is nice too. Unfortunately I can't compare both in my system since I'm buying used but still prefer to go with the Gryphon. I am aware both Vitus and Gryphon are great amps, a matter of preference.
@ryder- I completely understand. Which speakers are you planning on using with the new amp (purchased used, as you mentioned)?
ive been intrigued by the AudioNet equipment. The AudioNet Watt has intrigued me. Any particular reason you’d pass on it? I have not heard it, but would like to.
@bluethinkerI’ll be using the Marten Duke 2 with the new(likely used) amp. I also own the Graham LS5/9 but have the Naim amps on these. I occasionally will rotate the amps on the speakers to see how they would perform together.
A dealer offered the Audionet Watt for the trade-in of my Naim amps but the deal was not good.
As an update, I’ve finally succumbed to the temptation. I was initially looking at the Diablo 120 but managed to secure a deal on a used but in immaculate condition Gryphon Diablo 300 with DAC module through a dealer after the owner upgraded to the Essence. It won’t be too soon until I receive the unit but I’m excited as this one will surely qualify as endgame.
After speaking to the dealer, the new Diablo 333 is said to be slightly better than the 300, not a significant improvement while the Essence is significantly better than both. Nevertheless, the 300 is at the limit where I could spend on an amp and I’m convinced I won’t be looking anymore after this.
Thanks all. I’m looking forward to it. It’s the costliest amp I’ve splurged on so far and although I have high expectations for it to outperform my current Luxman L-590AXII, I’m keeping them low to avoid disappointment. I’m fairly certain I would not be left disappointed, judging from all positive reviews and comments that have been made so far.
Give it some time to warm up/burn in. If it hasn't been used for a while it should sound better after a few dozens of hours or perhaps even after a few hours, hard to know in advance. What power cord do you intend to use with it ?
I am really happy with my Gryphon 120 - I've had (and have listened to) quite a few respected integrated amps, but I haven't listened to the 300.
It sounds as good as it gets in my tiny listening room, hooked up to Harbeth Super HL5plus XD - I listen mainly to vinyl, and the phono module is also exceptional.
Give it some time to warm up/burn in. If it hasn’t been used for a while it should sound better after a few dozens of hours or perhaps even after a few hours, hard to know in advance. What power cord do you intend to use with it ?
I would be using the Acrolink 7N-PC9700 on it. Will try Acrolink 8N-PC8100 on it too to compare. The dealer suggested to plug it in directly to the wall instead of the power conditioner, and that’s what I’m going to do.
I am really happy with my Gryphon 120 - I’ve had (and have listened to) quite a few respected integrated amps, but I haven’t listened to the 300.
It sounds as good as it gets in my tiny listening room, hooked up to Harbeth Super HL5plus XD - I listen mainly to vinyl, and the phono module is also exceptional.
There is no used Diablo 120 for sale, otherwise I would have bought it. Can’t bring myself to buy a new one at full MSRP.
I owned the Harbeth Super HL5 Plus, not the current XD version. I can expect any Harbeth speakers to sound good with upfront and dynamic amps such as the Gryphon. I used to pair Naim with Harbeth, now it’s the Naim with Graham LS5/9.
I’m listening to my Gryphon 120 as I write this… I hope you like your new amp. As I wrote before, it’s a more muscular sounding amp compared to the Luxman 590axii. I would imagine the Gryphon 300 will really take it up another level.
Please share your observations once it is playing music in your home.
Fingers crossed, I should be able to receive the amp by end of this month or early next month. I haven't adjusted my rack to accommodate the 300 and will need to get it done soon. I'll post impressions once I manage to listen to the amp in my system.
@ryder Congrats. I hope you will be happy with the D300. I was also interested in the Pass int250 when I was looking for an integrated in 2022 but decided on the D300. The latter is much more powerful into low impedance loads, int250: 548W @ 2 ohms/283 @ 1 ohm vs D300: 1121W @ 2 ohms/1743 @ 1 ohm according to measurements in a swedish HiFi mag.
I received the Gyphon Diablo 300 with the internal DAC module. Although the Luxman 590AXII is good, you guys are right. This beast now sounds better than the Luxman although I’m just running it in its basic configuration through the internal built-in DAC. The things i wished for, the Gryphon delivered. Music sounds more alive, more dynamic, notes sound more fleshed out, basically everything sounds clearer with better clarity and detail. The Luxman sounds softer and more subdued, more restrained as instruments sound slightly smeared and further to the back row.
I will surely need some time to properly evaluate the amp as I can run it in many configurations. I can run it directly from the wall outlet which I’m doing now, or I can plug it to a power conditioner as I used to do. I also have different mains power cables which I can use with the amp, and I can also connect my standalone DACs to it which will likely change the sound presentation.
It’s just 5 hours in and the amp has lived up to expectations in this very early stage. Music sounds more real and believable now. The bass is pumping, giving more foundation to the music. I’ll try my dedicated DACs with the 300 in about a weeks time. Even at this early stage, the Diablo has truly shown its class. It’s really a league above the Luxman.
@ryder- Thanks for sharing the update! Wish I could have been there to witness the unveiling and to see your first impressions of the new amp first hand. In my mind, it is a step up from the Luxman 590axii. I’m stoked you are finding joy with it.
I bought my Luxman without auditioning very many amps. I now find I’m trying to find a way to justify keeping it by trying to make it work in my office system. This might be harsh, but I almost feel the Luxman is best suited for a bedroom system where you want something intentionally without much of an edge…
Are you planning on selling the Luxman? Or possibly moving it to a different room?
Thanks all. I’m delighted to have gone with the Gryphon.
@bluethinker I’m not decided yet on the Luxman. Apart from the 590AXII, I have another pre/power and an integrated which are unused. I don’t have the space to set up another system so I have surplus amps and another pair of speakers sitting quietly in a corner. My earlier intention is to swap amps and speakers once in a while when I get bored but figure out it’s not exactly a practical thing to do. Perhaps I’ll continue to keep all the amps before I decide if I will need to sell some.
I still love the Luxman and wish to keep it as a backup. I tried to set up a bedroom system but the speakers took up too much space and didn’t sound good due to limited placement options, so it’s a failed attempt. Smaller bookshelves which are designed for close placement to wall boundaries might work but I didn’t pursue with the plan and stuck with the main system in the living room.
I have vowed to stop getting new hifi and start selling the existing ones, sooner or later.
Words can't describe how happy I am with the Gryphon Diablo 300. It sounds massively different from the Luxman 590AXII. It's very good, a complete amp even though there's better (333 and Essence).
Essence separates should be better. There is almost always something better somewhere
+1, at least if you have fairly efficient speakers, but I have heard people who think that the D300 has better bass. Always something better, or at least different, somewhere.
@ryder- I’d be curious to hear how the Gryphon settled into your system. What was your journey like listening and discoverying what it sounded like in your system? I think it’s one of the subtle things that makes us all so intrigued by the gear and its ability to evoke a more emotional response from the music.
@bluethinkerI usually only have time to listen during the weekends so have not spent much time with the system. I also have not fully explored the potential of the amp as there are other configurations where I could connect the amp which I have not tried.
Nevertheless, I have found that the Gryphon combines the refined and delicate touch of the Luxman 590AXII with the dynamics of the Naim 282/250DR increased in twofold, and the bass is improved as well. The clarity and tone of instruments also slightly improved. I don’t know what else to report, basically music just sounds right. Previously with the Luxman, although it’s refined and detailed, the overall presentation is soft and lacking in dynamics which contributes to a lack of engagement. The punch and slam are missing. On the other hand, the Naim sounds quite dynamic but less detailed and rough, and I find it to be inferior to the Luxman. The Gryphon just connects all the pieces and sounds complete.
I’ve swapped DACs but need more time to come to a conclusion. So far the Chord DAC is ahead of the Luxman DAC. The built-in DAC in the Gryphon is not bad but I’ll need more time to ascertain the quality of all DACs and to determine if the Chord sounds best or otherwise.
As for interconnects, I now hear a bigger difference between two pairs of XLR interconnects that go between the Gryphon and DAC. I may be tempted to acquire the top-of-the-range IC of the better sounding pair in due time.
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