You sound hurt and disturbed, very, very disturbed.
Has to be said
i been reading most sites and the little arguments about this and that about making audio in this case be more pleasent ot better to any individual. and have to say upfront that if "you" believe its better to you than it is in fact true to you and you only. we are just reletive respondants to each other and therefore nature and the universe.
many of the subjects that come up as to improving ones audio system tend to go into little details that may or may not have "real" affects on most of us. and also be provable with phsics,math,medical studies etc.many musicians and many humans can distinguish alot of these aspects. and they are ALL quantifiable and measureable very easilly. from 1800 till today FFT and resonance,sound perfiliration has been well adjustable from the totally acoustic pipe organs to the music halls 100s of years ago with out electronic fixes, and all these new snake oil gagets on the market. many are always big commenters here on this site.
Its totally true you can "fix" and sound wave with free rocks,walls,chambers, etc. so go for it at a cost of zero dollars. and adbandon all these marketing hacks.
Ive been well into sound,RF,Radioation, Electron manulipation, Audio,phsics etc all my life and all my relatives aslso . I dont need to justify my opinions yet am dignified by holding 8 international patents,2 doctrets and my dad with similar fields.
one crazy obvious thing no one even bothers to mention is the way off standard of 440hz shifted 8hz the earths standard resonance. while all the 1000s of years 432hz was based on real natural happenings before electronics. dont you all care everything you listen to is 8hz off tune and therefore wrong, but you will bicker about a few microvolts noise from an ocslittating wire with parallell wire hanging off a standoff. itf too funny to me.
yes all digital except one source tunes their DAC math to 435hz to be more correct to Verdi and other great composers.
ive got tuning forks over the audio and above spectrum and tune my panios violins etc to them 432 hz
and need to say again. yes please do everything Analoge
to correct your sound system, its been done in churches,music halls,the great pyrmids, with instruments themselves.
but do not chase the rabbit down the money hole to fix apparent physhoacoustics in your listening area.
ps the spelling and writing is horrid cause ive got a brain injury2 years ago and under go EEG,ehthesographs and neuro studies constantly. where various frequency sweeps are put thru me and studied by the medical and commercial fields.
Im off for now to play my bass thru 50000watts total. and resonate the neighborhood at 8.2 HZ....
But Geoff you cannot tune for yourself the violin of the violinist that plays some tune on your system...It is my point...I am interested in this social convention of tuning the fork and his effect on us listening to that in our perfectly tuned, otherwise, very refined tweaked audio system, and like you already know it is the point that the OP wanted to discuss...( mine audio system is tuned tough and yours also I think)… :) |
One thing I know for sure, it is better to listen to some musical sound than takes a pill...:) I am curious about the OP experience with sound.... Sometimes ago I listen only music or sound that suit my conscious taste...But for about a year now I observe exposing myself to certain sound ( perhaps better say frequencies) had certain negative or positive effect, or reinforcing effect...It is feed back and placebo also, but more than that, there is really an objective side effect to the effect of sound from the cellular to the conscious level...I am not a scientist, but I have my experience...And there is much out there for those who want to read... For sure these experiments with sound healing are more convincing and easy to make for someone that is already in pain, hurted, or very sensible ( I am), otherwise collective blind test with corticoid production measurement protocols for example are mandatory for the research... like this one: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327439522_Effect_of_528_Hz_Music_on_the_Endocrine_System_an... My best to all... |
For example when you are not only in physical pain, but in an acute spiritual or psychological pain, nevermind the names, you dont feel light and you dont enjoy your normal musical listening at all...You are not able to play anymore... Then at these times I try some music, designed to heal, there are many that suit particular needs and spiritual moods... With success... An example of some music I enjoy for my own therapeutic use... This will not suit everybody, it is just an example of some kind of music I dont listen to in normal times of my life, but I cannot listen to much to it when I need it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uho4EPuJVtY This music for example calm my soul... And remind yourself that there is a difference between relaxing music only and music with therapeutic effect first... The frontier is not clear cut for sure, but when you are in pain, you feel the difference in your bones... For relaxation only I listen to natural sounds, wind chimes, or very simple piano melody... Most of the days I am strong and in health, it seems so to me and others tough :) and I listen to Shostakovitch piano preludes, Scriabin or some Sun Ra free jazz marvels or Bach or Persian or Indian favorites.... All music i cannot even touch when i am in pain....But these happy days are more numerous because I am lucky in life thanks God... My best to all I cannot resist to say these words that had no relation to my post :) God exist thanks to the music of Bach that prove it; and man can be a god also, a lesser one for sure, but a god tough, thanks to the Scriabin music that proves the fact...( choose a Sofronitsky interpretation for the Scriabin proof) |
please notice that how often the sounds-Ie waves forms derived from natural sources as well as old school 432 hz tuned instruments from way back music are effective to the human positive experience. im not talking soal or god or anything but a real basic physical/electrical reaction in the body on a cellular level. im hoping the doctret wife in biofeedback comes in on this. please stop the banter about whose wiki research is better. some experience with white/pink/brown noise shoes real physicalogical response.same is obvious true for plotting the fft of annoying sounds, way off tones,very random freqs, wild modulated waves etc. you get the point. stuff you cant do a proper mathametical algorthrum. ive also fuund that older folks that cant "hear" the 20khz anymore (60+years old)are in fact effected by played contet if its sharp odd ordered harmonics. kinda like secret imposed information. |
Interesting toughts...I think you are right on the spot for natural sound healing effect...432 hz tuned instrument also I guess...And I am sure that the effect is very physical... Soul and body are one... The polluting noise environment is detrimental and unbeknownst to many, not only loud noises or background noises, but bad choices for tuning like the 440 hz or exposition to too much artificial sounds... |
Without too much trouble I found this somewhere in cyberspace. I’ll leave it someone else to decide it’s message. “This frequency of 440 Hz is called the standard "Concert Pitch" and has been the practice everywhere since about 1939. It was officially adopted by the global ISO Standard in about 1956. Just about all the music you hear is adjusted to this specific pitch. But this was not always the case. The story told on the web claims that most ancient instruments in human history were tuned to a different pitch. The one most preferred was 432 Hz. It is claimed that even the oldest flutes, dating back to the Neanderthals (45,000 BCE) were tuned to 432, as were the lyres in ancient Greece and the wind instruments discovered in Egyptian tombs. An interesting story claims that the lyres of the temples of Greece were an integral part of the ceremonies worshiping Isis and other so-called mystery schools. Cult members were aroused to states of ecstasy by the sounds of this 432 Hz tuned music which, in the case of the Eleusinian Mysteries, made them filled with compassion and altruism. For this reason, according to the story, the war-like state of Sparta had all the lyres re-tuned to a higher frequency, thus nulling the anti-war sentiments. Obviously, the ancient people did not have tuning forks or digital meters and so it is presumed that this frequency of 432 is intuitive, meaning that it somehow sounded right to the human ear. This kind of intuition is supported by the surprise that even the most ancient flutes all have what is called a heptatonic scale of eight notes ("Do, Re, Me, Fa...") such that, if you picked one up back then you could conceivably play Yankee Doodleon it. In fact, in Werner Herzog's film documentary, Cave Of Forgotten Dreams, archaeologist Wulf Hein plays The Star Spangles Banner on a Paleolithic flute made from the radius bone of a vulture.” |
Interesting post... Thanks... I know for sure that sound touch us immediately and objectively, our inconscious is way more refine in perception than our conscious mind, then it makes sense for me to play modern tune on a prehistoric instrument designed by a caveman with the same ears than us.... By the way I like Werner Herzog intuitive mind very much... |
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This builder has been on my radar for some time. https://432evo.be/index.php/432-evo-master-music-server/#introduction I haven't followed the thread...if this has been posted prior, my apologies. Melody Gardot has also recorded in this frequency. https://www.facebook.com/KlinktBeter/posts/melody-gardot-new-sound-432-hzartiesten-zoals-melody-gardot-ontdekken-ook-de-bet/797968576966388/ |
Atdavid... For sure I know all that controversies about this 432 Hz debate...But I am very conscious also about the real impact on the body of frequencies choosen sounds... How about this scientific reference to establish some balance with this subject and not throwing the baby with the bathwaters(sometimes dirty waters and I am conscious about your careful point and the debate about tuning). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327439522_Effect_of_528_Hz_Music_on_the_Endocrine_System_an... and this one is relevant to our last discussion also and also this one... Inaudible High-Frequency Sounds Affect Brain Activity: Hypersonic Effect https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/jn.2000.83.6.3548 |
w.r.t to the Evo Mahgister, https://www.criticalsound.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Review-EVO-432-Dutch-Translation-Music-Emotion.pdf If you want to play around with resampling, learn how to use GNU Octave, a freeware math package. You can load in a WAV file and do whatever you want with it. No cost. From a musical point of view, it is still interesting to describe what the EVO does in 432 fashion.In fact, you are transposing, because you play the music in a different key.The A on the keyboard is not quite a Gis, but something in between.The music is thus not fully transposed to the scale of Gis.That sounds (in the ears of the undersigned) light alienating and sometimes here and there dissonant, especially if you have the voices of artists in your head.So a piece of music gets a different atmosphere.A curious sensation is listening to piano or guitar in 432 mode.It experiences as listening to an instrument that is not properly tuned. |
....hey....the sturm und drang stopped....the sun’s out....everyone seems to have sheathed their weapons.... Wonder never ceases....*S* I’ve heard of the 440/432 debate, which strikes me as a search for the ’roots’ of music, and how it all began. *L* As we as a species have spent a considerable amount of time hangin’ around a fire rather than ’modern instruments’ (and much less with audio reproduction systems), it holds a certain fascination.... Lately, I’ve been enjoying these folks.... https://heilung.bandcamp.com/album/lifa "Krigsgaldr" is one that I enjoy...and Ms.Franz voice in it can raise the hair on the back of your neck....in a pleasant fashion. ;) Don’t have to be concerned about the wolves, after all...*G* I think I may try something ’GNU’ with it, just to see what it does... Thanks, Geo...and David. Something interesting to pursue....;) |
it's very simple "everything affects everything else" and the only way you are going to find out is "do". All the rest is really want-a-bee talk or internet trolling. This year I have seen many HEA audiophiles dump their gear and go low mass and tunable (thanks). Some of these folks are members here who have told me "never going back". So to these members some of you guys look pretty silly :) Hi Tunees, thanks for your emails and PMs! Is the activity here shrinking by big numbers or have I missed something? Stereophile died because of trolling, is the same happening here? |
michaelgreenaudio it’s very simple "everything affects everything else" and the only way you are going to find out is "do". All the rest is really want-a-bee talk or internet trolling. This year I have seen many HEA audiophiles dump their gear and go low mass and tunable (thanks). Some of these folks are members here who have told me "never going back". So to these members some of you guys look pretty silly :) Hi Tunees, thanks for your emails and PMs! Is the activity here shrinking by big numbers or have I missed something? Stereophile died because of trolling, is the same happening here? >>>>No, everything’s fine, Michael. It’s very active. Thanks for trolling. I mean thanks for asking. Oops, my faux pas! |
LOL, Hemi you’ll be OK. Again thank you members who are Tunees and thank you Agon for this forum. Hi Geoff, maybe the members who keep in contact with me are wrong, but I don’t think so, I see the same thing they do. Here’s the good news folks, the industry and hobby are getting their act together by selling off their massive systems and going Low Mass. If that’s trolling man am I guilty as charged and loving it. You guys would serve yourselves well by seeing what listeners are actually "doing". In the meantime I hope you don’t mind folks enjoying the heck out of their systems after being stuck in the box for so many years. http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/ mg PS: I believe this is still about listening to music :) |
A few things for your consideration. 1. A low mass system would have even lower mass if it were mechanically isolated. If you put amps that are sitting on an iso stand on a scale you’ll see they weight considerably less than when they aren’t on a stand. Isolation stands are, in effect, anti-gravity systems! 🤗 2. When you go to a low mass system you eliminate some things that produce noise and distortion, e.g., big honking transformers and big honking capacitors. 3. Beyond low mass systems. 😛 By hopping off the AC grid and going to battery power you can eliminate more things that produce noise and distortion - power cords, AC power itself, ground issues. Then, going to ULTRA LOW MASS + LOW POWER systems, I.e., portable CD player/headphone system, you can reduce mass a lot more AND eliminate even more things that produce distortion and noise - Interconnects, speaker cables, digital cable, big power supplies. You can even eliminate room tuning. Oops! Did I just say that? No matter how much you have in the end 🔚 you would have had even more if you had started out with more. 🔝 |
@geoffkait "Sorry, but you missed my point entirely. The electromagnetic wave - the Schumann wave - is photons. All electromagnetic waves are photons. Like say, X-rays, radio waves, Gamma rays. That’s why all electromagnetic waves travel at c in a vacuum. Everybody and his brother has seen the blue Cherenkov radiation." Geoffkait.. often I agree with your posts. But this one is simply NOT TRUE. All electromagnetic waves are not photos. All photons are electromagnetic waves... but all electromagnetic waves are not photos. In the realm of audio systems these waves are electrons propagating through the circuits until the transducer (speaker) converts those electrons into sound waves. Even the digital signals are still electromagnetic waves. Just shaped and pulsed to make a digital signal. Now I am not going to write a phd thesis here. But to be clear; I absolutely know what I am talking about. degree in physics. degree in math. degree in chemistry. more to the point; I spent the last 30 years helping build the worldwide communications networks. EVERY bit, ever communications over copper or wireless or fiber... every communications in the entire world uses technology that I helped invent. A company I founded created optical devices that today carry (not kidding here) more than 60% of ALL GLOBAL COMMUNICATIONS traffic of all kinds. I helped develop the worlds fastest modulators. Communications lasers. complex network systems. I was one of the very first users of what later became the internet. Back when only 5 universities had links to DarpaNet. I have been involved with every major communications advance in the last 30 years. I sit on standards bodies. All electromagnetic waves are not photons. There are waves propagated by electrons. RF waves that propagate in both space and atmospheres. X rays, gamma rays.. again, not photons. Yes, all photons are expressions of electromagnetic waves. but all waves are not photons. if you really want to get into discussions of how electronic waves propagate in circuits, you need to look into the work of Dr. Ivan Ndip at Fraunhofer IZM in Berlin. fascinating stuff. those waves don't confine themselves to the wires or circuit traces on a board or wiring harness. if you really want to drive noise low, it gets down into small details of how you do the vias in your PCB, how you lay out the traces in 3 dimensions and more. Note: my last invention runs at over 400Ghz per lambda and aggregated over the DWDM spectrum, can carry over 20Tbits on a single fiber. I was also deeply involved with the creation of both 4g and the upcoming 5g wireless standards. And early in my career helped build the first cellular networks in the world. I personally know and work with the CTO's of Verizon, ATT, Sprint, T-Mobile, DT, BT, China Mobile, NTT, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon... well you get the picture. I am deeply embedded in the world of photons and manipulating them. again, normally you are right on with your comments. But this one is not accurate. sailboat |
sailboatVery interesting stuff... I use shungite stones+copper tape on one side, in my audio experiments, is it possible that the stones+copper affected the signals trough some sort of passive filtering decreasing the noise floor trough interaction with the electronic waves ? I ask to you because the effect is stunningly good, cheap and I had no explanation to date...It is my idea and it gives my system a boost in all counts... I use that on the central breaker panel, interconnect even on top of the capacitors of my Schumann Generators etc....Thanks for your time... |
I.e., portable CD player/headphone system, you can reduce mass a lot more AND eliminate even more things that produce distortion and noise -That is what world is going towards, or has already gone to. Eliminating CDs altogether. That eliminates CD players, too. It eliminates vibrations, maybe decreases need for isolation, and even decreases need for New Dark Matter. Oops! Did I just say that? "Interconnects, speaker cables, digital cable, big power supplies."Headphone cable is, effectively, a speaker cable. Thankfully, those have become obsolete, too. As Michael Green correctly said many times (maybe not in exact words but to that effect), low-mass systems are what people of the future are going for. Just ask any 16-year-old would they rather have red iPhone 11 with Airpods Pro, or Pass amplifier or two. |
he started wave influence with sensors that could identify german diesel locols on the track in europe to blow up supply trains. ive still got them too. they could differentiate from empty train,coal loco,freight car or coal car in front of lolo. so only the prime movweer would be blown up. all using specific harmonics,band gaps,resonaces and carbon steel wheel capacitance to the rail at passing. yea Im bad heavy into this stuff.
A little off track here (punn intended) if you mean blowing up diesel trains during WW II I am not sure many trains would be blown up. More likely steam engines. If they could only detect German diesel engines I would run German steam engines. |
Let us reason together, shall we? Exhibit A: “X-rays have much shorter wavelengths than visible light, which makes it possible to probe structures much smaller than can be seen using a normal microscope. This property is used in X-ray microscopy to acquire high resolution images, and also in X-ray crystallography to determine the positions of atoms in crystals. Interaction with matter[edit]X-rays interact with matter in three main ways, through photoabsorption, Compton scattering, and Rayleigh scattering. The strength of these interactions depends on the energy of the X-rays and the elemental composition of the material, but not much on chemical properties, since the X-ray photon energy is much higher than chemical binding energies. Photoabsorption or photoelectric absorption is the dominant interaction mechanism in the soft X-ray regime and for the lower hard X-ray energies. At higher energies, Compton scattering dominates. Photoelectric absorption[edit]The probability of a photoelectric absorption per unit mass is approximately proportional to Z3/E3, where Z is the atomic number and E is the energy of the incident photon.[64] This rule is not valid close to inner shell electron binding energies where there are abrupt changes in interaction probability, so called absorption edges. However, the general trend of high absorption coefficients and thus short penetration depths for low photon energies and high atomic numbers is very strong. For soft tissue, photoabsorption dominates up to about 26 keV photon energy where Compton scattering takes over. For higher atomic number substances this limit is higher. The high amount of calcium (Z=20) in bones together with their high density is what makes them show up so clearly on medical radiographs.” |
Hi sailboat you sound like my kinda guy. im glad someone else with the "proper" backround is chiming in. I but just like me you read most and laugh at the crazy stuff but had to say something. my backround is in major stuff like you, im retired and pass on info to the masses if they will listen. as you see this has turned as do all into sales peddeling their wares. perhaps you can steer them all about transmission of audio thru wires and the nonsense that goes on here about brekin, signal direction and the like and how in audio freqs there is NO sig. effects. thankyou from another mad scientists ps one of my late cusins worked in the early 50s on the western electric first undersea phone cable and matrixing many signals into one conductor. |
"if you mean blowing up diesel trains during WW II I am not sure many trains would be blown up."Why not just blow up the tracks? the germans were using diesel on the "secret" hauls to eliminate the obvious plume from steam seen and easy of control. blowing up the tracks would not elinimate the precious cargo of munitions. |
hemigreg OP Maybe you should remember everything you have learned and apply as necessary to everything as you quoted someone "everything effects everythjing" >>>>>Good comeback! 🙄 |
now that he brought signal and wires, why dont you guys run all Balanced interconnects which are the standard for professional and important signal wiring???? their performance is magnatudes above any unbalanced coax or eseroteric interconnect... you know like Xlr. the noise cancelling is crazy good as comparison. and any real good equipt uses it if not as main an option. |
hemigreg OP now that he brought signal and wires, why dont you guys run all Balanced interconnects which are the standard for professional and important signal wiring???? their performance is magnatudes above any unbalanced coax or eseroteric interconnect... you know like Xlr. the noise cancelling is crazy good as comparison. and any real good equipt uses it if not as main an option. >>>>>There it is! I knew it wouldn’t be too long before the word professional raised its ugly head. Next up, why professionals prefer controlled double blind tests. Watch this space. 👀 |
From what I can tell sailboat, this was giving too much credit and I doubt the same credit will be returned to you, but I admire trying to bring real science and not a convenient pop interpretation to the table. Geoffkait.. often I agree with your posts. But this one is simply NOT TRUE. All electromagnetic waves are not photos. All photons are electromagnetic waves... but all electromagnetic waves are not photos. |
Please clarify. If not all electromagnetic waves are not photons, what else are they comprised of? Because from my understanding, sound waves are mechanical waves, not electromagnetic, and all electromagnetic waves are comprised of photons. If x rays and gamma rays are not comprised of photons, what are they? |
audiozenology From what I can tell sailboat, this was giving too much credit and I doubt the same credit will be returned to you, but I admire trying to bring real science and not a convenient pop interpretation to the table. Geoffkait.. often I agree with your posts. But this one is simply NOT TRUE. All electromagnetic waves are not photos. All photons are electromagnetic waves... but all electromagnetic waves are not photos. >>>>>A Cargo Cultist newbie rushes in where angels fear to tread. 😇 Anyone notice they generally post a whole lot before they flame 🔥 out? Is some right wing skeptics organization sending in a tag team? 🤼♂️ |
I understand less than 1/4 of the science here, Have a couple of observations: Steve Deckert of Decware has a paper on this topic-go to the website, go to papers-I think it's called: "What is sound?" In a music store a couple of months ago ,I saw a guitar tuner, I think the brand was "Snarky" the hook was "Tune to where you want it"-not standard tuning-if nobody cared about this stuff, who would buy one? I know some of you are musicians. I don't know about anyone else, but I would pay $10-15 to purchase CD or cassette tape recorded at 432 & 440 to see if I hear the difference. Unfortunately, that still won't address the more metaphysical/spiritual question of if we were instructed to "make a joyful noise", does 8 Hz sharp make it other than joyful? |