Has anyone added a Master Clock to UpTone EtherREGEN Yet? It’s Insane!

@panhead2 could you explain how and what did you clock to get benefits to Netflix streaming? 

Add me to the list of satisfied customers.      BTW -  this also has been a GREAT benefit to my netflix streaming.    Blows away any of my Blue-Ray players.

Thanks

Very nice rig - K50 + M12 = :) 

Can you clarify the positions of your clock, switch, and ER? I have an afterdark ER clock, and their cascade switch arriving next week. They advised the following positions:

Clocked ER>Clocked switch>Roon server.  The ER  and clocks all have LPS. The server/player is an antipodes K50>AES/EBU>Bricasti M12. This, of course, is contrary to the uptone recommendation to have ER closest to server

I agree adding a clock to the ER has a very positive effect.  I also found placing the ER closest to an Innuos Statement the best place.  I moved my EE 8Switch from that position after adding the clock and it was obvious the ER was best closest to the Statement.

I have an ENO Ag filter between the ER and Statement and it is amazing.
I am using a Mutec Ref10 for both an ER and a SOtM switch that sits between the ER and 8Switch.

Funny thing happened after adding the Mutec.  I had the Roon core on an Antipodes Core off the SOtM switch, but after adding the Mutec going back to Experimental mode on the Statement was better than separating the core and player and also better than Experimental mode without the Mutec.  I dont understand that.

All this has made a huge and I mean huge improvement streaming Tidal or Qobuz, however CD's ripped to the Statement always sounds better than streamed from Tidal or Qobuz in my system.  Playing downloaded Hi-Rez and especially DSD makes for a bigger delta.

I am waiting for Innuos2.0 to move on from Roon, maybe Tidal and Qobuz will improve then, but I will have to hear it to believe it that streaming sounds better.

pjb255livecom"I only stream music (Qobuz), and am looking to begin optimizing the digital signal chain.But I'm having difficulty conceiving of improvements being so drastic, because the improvements as described appear to exceed the capabilities of playing an equivalent CD. Am I wrong?"


You could just listen and then you would know for yourself

It absolutely pulverizes any CD player. My system as it is - you can add a CD Player, any CD Player at any cost and it will crush it. If you live local come over my house and you can listen. If you are worried don’t be there is a 30 trial period and a 2 year warranty. 

What it does is this. 
It makes streaming audio sound much better. 
Much better then it did before, much better then CD. 
I mean my streamer was better then CD even before EtherREGEN or master clock. 

Once you get yourself a nice, proper streamer from the likes of (Antipodes, Lumin, Auralic, Aurender, Bricasti, SGC, Innuos, Naim, SOtM) and there are others things start to pop and CD players start to fade. Now start developing your system as a whole and your network with really good, upgraded Ethernet and CD cabling, linear power supplies to replace every single SMPS for everything. Routers, WIFI, Switches, etc. and you them you finer optic devices and and EtherREGENs and Master Clocks and you have left CD players in the dust heap is history. 

Thanks 

Im very interested in this subject, as I only stream music (Qobuz), and am looking to begin optimizing the digital signal chain.

But I'm having difficulty conceiving of improvements being so drastic, because the improvements as described appear to exceed the capabilities of playing an equivalent CD. Am I wrong in assuming that streamed content could never exceed CD (or locally stored content)?

@fsmithjack Here is the answer to my question. It is from John Swenson from the Audiophile Style thread https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59419-master-clock-for-your-etherregen/page/2/:


”The specific reason: the clock input goes into a very low additive phase noise clock synthesizer and all its inputs are designed for square waves.

 

More general reason: all the digital circuits that use clocks actually use squarewaves so feeding a sinewave into the system either doesn't work at all or gives much higher jitter.

 

Technical explanation of the above: All clock receivers have some form of threshold circuit, it changes state when the clock voltage goes through that threshold voltage. NO signals are ever perfect, there is ALWAYS some form of amplitude noise on the signal, AND the receiver itself always has some form of fluctuations on the threshold voltage. So think of the clock signal rising towards the threshold, as it gets nearer to the threshold the amplitude of the noise comes into play, the threshold might get passed when the noise is at its peak or at its lowest point, or some place in between. This noise on the signal causes an uncertainty as to when it will actually get to the threshold, otherwise known as jitter. The faster the voltage rise of the signal the lower the time uncertainty for a given noise amplitude. Thus a square wave with very fast rise and fall times will have much lower jitter than a sinewave which has a much slower changing voltage. This is the reason a circuit designed for square wave input MAY still work with a sinewave, but the jitter in the circuit clocked by the signal will be higher.

 

There ARE some ways to convert sinewaves into square waves, but the simple ways actually increase the noise on the signal making the jitter even worse. There are some ways to do it well but they are complex and expensive and take a lot of power. Putting one of those on the clock input of the EtherREGEN would have at least doubled the cost of the device, not worth it in my opinion.

 

BTW these master clocks provide both sinewave and squarewave outputs for different applications. Radio systems that need a very stable frequency reference for running into mixers etc want a sinewave. Digital systems want a square wave. Either system CAN use the other type, but won't work nearly as well. So it is best to get the type of master clock that works well with what you want to use it for.

 I hope that makes some sense.

 John S.”

kzs7031 posts
A system like yours is the type of system that this clock is made for. 
Any refined digital front end that employs a top notch server / DAC and EtherREGEN. 
I’m telling you with all certainty or your money back that it will be the biggest upgrade your ever made in your life in audio. You will be absolutely blown away impressed. You just will. All I ask you come back on here and share your results with others. 
A system like yours has a simple and relatively inexpensive unreal upgrade sitting right there for taking. I mean if I give you all your money why would I be so adamant and confident. I’ll tell you why it’s because if you don’t absolutely love it then you will be the first. 
https://ctronicmusic.com/

@fsmithjack wouldn’t a sign wave be more precise than the clipped square wave? Once Hans Beekhauzen reviewed a master clock and preferred it over another because the reviewed clock was a full sin wave whereas the other less preferred one was a square wave? Please clarify. Thanks!

@fsmithjack , do you know anyone who has a Lumin X1 and an ER and has added a master clock to the ER?
I am running fiber from the A side of the ER to the X1 and would be interested if this clock upgrade is worthwhile in my scenario or not...
Zsolt

andrewkelley227 posts

I am glad to talk to you about your excellent system. Message me and I would love to give you some ideas. I think you would love the EtherREGEN. Hope to hear from you. 
chorus454 posts
Thanks for asking and I would love to share more info with you. 
The Queen Master Clock is our biggest seller. We are thankful at how well it has been received. 
The Queen Master Clock sells for $565.00 plus shipping and we offer a 30 day money back guarantee trial period. Here is the link for more info: 
https://ctronicmusic.com/shop/ols/products/afterdark-project-clayx-giesemann-ocxo-10mhz-reference-ma...

My website that has some decent info on master clocks, how they work with the EtherREGEN and the home audio Network. It also has the full Stereotimes review and if you are interested.

https://ctronicmusic.com/

It’s funny with reviews, sometimes the reviewer will buy the product or just send it back.


The reviewer of our Clock was so impressed he not only bought the review sample but he also ordered more of our products and expended his review. He loved it right out of the gate and these get quite a better after they stabilize. 

He was smitten. He has since bought even more of our products. We thought it was pretty cool and a nice compliment. This isn’t just any reviewer its their Senior Editor.

In fairness he is not alone. Every single person, every one, every single one has responded the same way. I mean you would at least think one person would maybe not love it? Not the case. 
We offer a full 30 money back Guarantee demo trial program? Not a single return or anything other then praise! We are very thankful. We believe we tapped a vein of immense audio improvement for a very reasonable amount of money. Folks seem agree. I hope you give us a try. Here is a little basic info about our Queen Master Clock: 

https://ctronicmusic.com/shop/ols/products/afterdark-project-clayx-giesemann-ocxo-10mhz-reference-ma...

The AfterDark Queen Master

 

Today’s available digital converters, clocks, and audio re-clockers perform acceptably well reproducing or processing digital audio. Even so, we at AfterDark along with our North American partners on the Charles River, Ctronic Music Boston felt the existing products that enhance digital playback, OCXO clocks and linear power supply solutions are way overpriced. We knew we could bring a line of products to market at a much lower price while substantially increasing digital playback performance. Just look at how exceptionally well our products measure and the subjective consumer and reviewer response has been nothing short of astounding. 

AfterDark PROJECT CLAYX GIESEMANN OCXO 10MHz REFERENCE Queen Master Clock - 75 Ω - SquareWave - (SinWave and 50 Ω Optional) Email us if you need a 50 Ω or SinWave. 

The standard edition is designed to work perfectly with your UpTone Audio EtherREGEN. It comes in 75 Ω and Square Wave for that purpose. If you need or prefer somthing else let us know we can easillly acomondate you.

Features: This product features an industrial strength, audio grade, OCXO refined through long-term calibration and selected to provide exceptional stability. The QUEEN Master is the clock that made AfterDark famous. The QUEEN Master is an audiophile reference clock generator of exceptional quality. This has been confirmed many times over since its launch. In numerous reviews from specialized magazines and through exceedingly enthusiastic user feedback. This reference master clock generates a 10MHz signal with vanishingly low jitter and when paired with an EtherREGEN or any other applicable device dramatically increases the quality of digital music playback. It works fantastic in modest systems and even more so in ambitious and demanding high‑end audio systems. Its remarkable clarity and dynamics are breathtaking. It unlocks the transparency and full dynamic range of your soundstage with incredible dimensionality and detail, free from digital blurring. Ideal for high-end studios, mastering suites, and home Hi Fi audio playback systems. The Queen Master delivers the precision and audio purity your digital playback chain has been missing.  

 

Technical index

• 10 MHz reference master clock generator with ultimately low phase noise of ‑132 dBc at 10 Hz
• Engineered around long-term calibration and selected OCXO generators.
•  Generates a high slew‑rate sin wave signal for superior lock precision.
• OCXO is fully enclosed in a Butyl composite material: Dynamat Xtreme (Made in USA) designed to minimize heat separation and preserve ideal crystal oscillator stability.
• Additional EMI materials used to shield and maximize OCXO long term performance. KEMET EMI Shielding is placed along top and outer layer is wrapped in real leather to isolate the heat factors.
• Black Alu material + Carbon Fiber material for front and rear back plates. Due to the thickness, 3mm / 6mm of Carbon Fiber material the plates provide additional EMI/magnetic coverage.
• Audio Note pure silver solder 
• Duelund AC0.4 Silver Premium Audio Cable (Silver in Cotton / Oil impregnated) (Made Denmark) for internal wiring. 
• AfterDark. Project ClayX WoodMAT for best musical representation (Optional)
• 2 Year Manufacturer’s Warranty
• Your choice of 50 Ω or 75 Ω impedance reference BNC outputs for max compatibility.
• Specifically designed and optimized, low noise LPS power supply (Optional)
• OCXO comes with measurements from the Advanced instrument Symmetricom 5125A calibrated with plotted characteristics for       each clock.
• The phase noise, and Allen Derivation defines different grades of the OCXO.
• Dramatically enhances EtherREGEN and compatible DACs, audio re‑clockers and music servers.

Phase Noise Measurements By: Symmetricom 5125A            

 Phase Noise @ 10Mhz - 132                    

 Phase Noise @ 1Mhz   - 103             

Allen Deviation Measurements By: Symmetricom 5125A            

Both Measurements included with Clock Purchase and signed off by Engineer.     

Alex, John and Adrain all believe the best place to put the EtherREGEN is right before the source it is feeding. Ethernet DAC or server or what have you. Let that be the last line before your source. Let all your other gear and switches and connections come before the EtherREGEN. 
As far as the Queen clock think of it as the partner to the EtherREGEN. It goes where the EtherREGEN goes. 

You park the Queen near the EtherREGEN and take a BNC cable and put one end into EtherREGEN and other into the Queen Clock. Make sure before you do this you power down (unplug) the EtherREGEN. 

Once powered down hook up the BNC cable and don’t forget to slide the switch on the EtherREGEN to EXT to bypass the EtherREGENs internal clock and open it up to accept the Queen clock signal. Also, don’t forget to plug your Queen Clock into a 12VDC power supply and you are good to go! 
Enjoy 
Frank 
CMB (CTronic Music Boston) 

Just to clarify, I have the After Dark Queen clock connected to the Uptone Ether Regen via the supplied BNC 75 ohm cable. The ER is connected to a Netgear router. From there, the signal goes from the ER to an Eastern Electric 8 switch. A Network Acoustics ENO Ag filter comes next and is plugged into a Bricasti M5 streamer/renderer. A USB cable connects the Bricasti to the Exogal Comet Plus DAC.

Okay I did some study. The Queen clock at $535 is what Alex Crespi suggests to mate with his Ether Regen. 30 day trial offered with a 2 year warranty. Apparently the AfterDark folks bought a slug of various clocks
tested them and made different models to meet the various price points they offer. Hence the cheaper clock prices. Sounds like a deal to me.
I will be buying one next month. Too many irons in the fire now!

+1, @richtruss.
I have taken a much simpler (clutter free) approach to fine tune my Ethernet setup. I’m using ENO Filter and their Ag LAN cable between my router and the streamer. The ENO Filter is passive and very effective in lowering the noise thus yielding to a darker background and overall better musical presentation.

If you read / search here, folks who have tried both etherREGEN and Network Acoustics ENO Filter end up selling the etherREGEN. One of those threads is outlined below,

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/streaming-sound-quality-want-the-very-best-sound-quality-netw...

Don't worry about clocks, the bane of digital.  Stay analogue.

Full Disclosure - I co-own Network Acoustics, manufacturer of the ENO Ag Ethernet Filter.

Our most recent and on-going research into sound quality of music reproduced from data streamed via a wired Ethernet connection has shown us two things. Both the precision of timing of Ethernet data arriving at the streamer, and the absence of RFI mixed in with it are crucial for the best ‘analogue sounding’ music reproduction.
The external clock will definitely improve the timing of the data, it will get you a good improvement, but without the RFI filtering you won’t get to the ultimate your equipment can do.

@fsmithjack 
I am very interested in learning more... 
my current setup is AT&T fibre to router, synergistic Ethernet to an English Electric switch 8, more sr ethernet to wolf audio luna r server, then sr usb to t+a dac8dsd. Everything is grounded to sr ground block. My question is... would I benefit from the etherregen, does it replace switch 8 and how and where does the clock go? 

Okay you got my attention. It seems forum folk know more about
preme stream that the Mag reviewers. 

I also have the Uptone girl. A good $640 investment if it doesn't fry 
itself soon. 

RE the Queen Clock- What is the cost and trial period?
Please do not omit pertinent info.

I am trying to learn the clock story but 1/2 of what I read seems to
contradict the other 1/2 I have read.

More study required.

Fuzztone - yes to work just with a DAC you are right. My DAC won’t accept a master clock either but if you own an UpTone Audio EtherREGEN and you hook to that it’s awesome regardless of what DAC you own. Although, I’d love to hear a DAC that accepts on of our clocks. 
Yoby - thanks I’m glad your enjoying it. I just so many people own EtherREGENs and don’t realize the kind of inexpensive upgrade that is right there. 
Both thanks for feedback. 

My DAC (Exogal Comet Plus) responds very well to the After Dark Queen clock. I was always skeptical about the claims about external clocks, especially for the price of admission for some of them (DCS, Esoteric etc.). After reading fsmithjack's ad, I contacted him by phone. He's a very experienced audiophile that knows what he's talking about. The price of the Queen clock was reasonable so I decided to audition one. I could always return it for a full refund if it didn't satisfy me. Well, it did right out of the box. At $535, this piece is a no brainer for Uptone Audio Ether Regen owners. A while later I added the After Dark LPS  ($235) with a Synergistic Orange 1A fuse. This was a dramatic upgrade.  It takes the clock about 5 weeks to fully burn in and I've really enjoyed the ride. I'm in no way affiliated with After Dark or CTronic Music. Just a content audiophile. Good listening. Jeff

Some DACs ignore the Master Clock so that would be a big bag of nothing.