There's an interesting thread on the Mini where I have been participating, sharing my own experiences with the Magico Mini. |
Its been awhile: I've posted a few comments on my first audition of them in my own system thread. Unfamiliar room and other equip as it was at a dealer but fantastic indeed. Sound stage, accuracy, smoothness, dyanmics both maco and micro and surprising bass. Alas the HK dealer won't allow me to audtion at home with my own gear...so requested them to chg the amps so I can try agn tmrw: this time instead of Spectral, they will hook it up with Audio Research gear. |
Yes, Twilo, along with Tube Research Labs amplifiers and preamps.
Beautiful stuff, huh? You should hear them.
Jack |
Doug are those Magico speakers? |
Check out these speakers.
http://rogueimc.org/images/2006/01/5788.jpg
http://rogueimc.org/images/2006/01/5790.jpg
http://rogueimc.org/images/2006/01/5792.jpg |
Boa2 understand where u are coming from as well as Alon...the even bigger issue for me is that I am in HK so looks like no way for me to investigate. Too bad as they sound very interesting. |
Alon,
Thanks for the reply and I'll definitely swing by sometime Sunday. As for the finish, I thought that might be the case after looking more closely at the construction and finish areas of the Mini portion of your site. It will be nice to see them in person as pictures rarely give you a good idea of what a finish looks like in real life.
Jeff |
Jack,
No one is footing the plane fare to audition the speakers. If you will read the post again, the offer of a plane fare reiumbursement was contingent upon the PURCHASE of the speakers. So you've missed the point entirely.
Furthermore, I just received a book of poetry in the mail, written by my eleven year-old niece. Therefore, I'm going to read it before bed, and forget this entire exchange. By comparison, it's simply pointless, and your pithy tone is not sitting well. |
We will be showing the MINI at T.H.E. SHOW, in room #2101. Please stop by and take them for a spin.
As far as your question, the MINI finish is completely clear coated. What you see is what you get: highly polished 17 layers of Baltic Birch Plywood and hard anodized 6061T-6 Aluminum (all 300 lbs of it). |
Boa2,
Auditioning ultra high end components usually requires travel. Unfortunately, companies at this level do not have the wide market that companies such as Klipsch. This said, many of us who seek and purchase the ultra grade products often have to travel to have any first hand experience with them. Systems are usually set up by either the manufacturer or one of their few dealers (as in this case). We can inquire as to the associated equipment used for said demonstration, hear them and then make the next step, which may require monetary down payment. This is how purchases at this level are normally done.
Where do I fit in? Hmm, I actually paid for my own flight to hear the Magico 3's, which I had purchased.
I find Jay's "Free Air Fare" offer most generous and very accommodating. This remains my point.
By the way, Howard, I did not know that it was unusual to show favor for one's favorite products in an audio forum. (Hint: It's fairly common). I have been blessed and fortunate enough to own some truly World Class gear. I even like to talk about them sometimes ... :)
I strongly urge anyone considering a speaker purchase to include Magico to your short list. The risk of audition seems little, especially when someone else foots the plane fare ...
Best wishes,
Jack Seaton |
By the way, do they come in finishes other than the one that's on the site and in the 6moons article? |
I'm going to CES so I'd love to take a listen to the Minis. Previously, there were only a couple of companies I was interested in seeing at T.H.E. show so I wasn't sure if I'd make it there (trying to see quite a few booths in only 2 days). However, Magico's attendance is a very strong encouragement to make time to get over there. :-)
Jeff |
Ceol writes: To find out I hauled my minimalist sytem up to Oakland in Novemeber So as recent as 4-6 weeks ago, this was a possibility? Jack, frankly I don't really care how you see it, as your play in this scenario does not involve taking the time to fly to San Diego, but simply to express an opinion with a keyboard. And I'm not really sure why you keep jumping to the defense of a person who is from his responses quite capable of answering for himself. Clearly, you have a declared allegiance to several companies whose products you own, but where do you fit in here? Yes, we're talking about ultra hi-end products, but hardly custom or one-offs. I don't give a damn about the plane fare. We're talking about a widely advertised, pre-delineated product LINE, from a 10+ year old company who has no dealer within 500 miles of me. Apparently, Ceol brought along his system from San Diego to audition the speakers in November. All I was looking to do was make the one-hour drive to hear them. As I said, if that's not within the scope of Magico's business policies, then I accept that. Everyone has a right to do business in the manner he/she deems appropriate. Thank you for the response, Alon. I can appreciate your position. I'm sure it was a hassle to have people auditioning your products as you were trying to work. I just happen to be on the verge of starting a business that will be a 7-day-a-week operation, and won't have the time to go to San Diego, lest our business brings us there in due time. So, we'll see. In the meantime, best of luck to you. Thank you as well, Jay, for the kind response. You've made my point. I'm willing to make the drive, just as I did when I wanted to hear the Wilsons in Berkeley, or the Silverlines in Walnut Creek. It's just that right now I can't get on a plane to come hear them. As well, I wouldn't audition speakers right after a plane ride. In any event, I understand you are doing what you can given the circumstances, and I appreciate your cordiality. Enjoy the New Year, everyone. Howard |
Boa2: Having been around the hobby for well over 30 years and the desire for the best, many ultra high end products are limited production and thus, require travel.
Considering that ours is not the only hobby with "ultra" products, your position seems a little jaded, or perhaps is telling of your consumer purchaces.
Regarding other ultra products, a good friend and business associate of mine flew to Orange County Choppers facility in New York to settle a deal on a custom bike, which they will build. They did not offer plane fare. (Estimated price around $60 to $70K)
Another friend lives in Honolulu and has had a custom stainless steel jeep made for him, (even the brake calipers were milled from a solid billet fo satinless steel, etc.). The specialty jeep builder is located in Central Oregon. They did not offer pane fare. (Finished price? Well into the 6 figures).
"However, I find this approach to be most un-accommodating, ..."
The dealer offered your plane fare, which you deem "un-accommodating". Hmm. Interesting. I don't see it that way.
Best wishes,
Jack Seaton |
In our Audio Society, I am know as Mr. Detail / Neutrality ... I attend live classical concerts every other week thru the winter (...the best reality check there is ).
IMHO I consider the Magico Mini the best two way I have ever heard ...... as a long time user of Spendor, Harbeth, Quad and Apogee this is saying a lot.
I first became aware of the Magico Mini at the 2005 CES when
several of my audio society colleagues brought them to my attention...
What I heard here with the an unknown digital front end and Jeff Roland switching amplifiers was good but not stellar.
I later benchmarked the Roland switching amps to my Dartzeel NHB 108 and Resolution Audio / DNM amps and found the Swithcing amps to be nowhere near the transparacny of either of my benchmarks....
This further increased my curiosity and expectations of the Mini.... how would the Magico Mini sound when partnered with the best Digital front end and power amps I know of ?
To find out I hauled my minimalist sytem up to Oakland in Novemeber:
CD------- Resolution Audio OPUS 21
--------- Modified by Great Northern Sound.
PRE------ PLACETTE PASSIVE
PWR AMP - DartZeel NHB 108 - 100 w SS amp /
----------Resolution Audio/DNM 30 watt SS amp.
SPEAKERS- GAMUT L3 Two way monitors
----------88 db efficient
----------(-3db 42 hz - 60khz) ca. $6k Retail.
In a matter of seconds listening to the MINI using a large Mahler work and some weeL recorded Dire Straits,it was obvious this speaker was in another league to my Gamut / Scanspeak L3 two way.
The HF was similar to the outstanding Gamut L3 speakers ( completley expected as both speakers use the same outstanding Scanspeak Ring Radiator tweeter ) but the bass / midrange coherence was in another league to that from the ported Gamut .... with outstanding timbral accuracy and very precise immaging.
Based on hearing this Mahler piece piece live in the concert hall and hearing it on several speakers in my own system, I can confidently say the MINI surpasses the following speakers ( some of them 3 way designs ) :
Avalon OPUS
JMlab Diva - $ 11.5 K
Kharma 3.1
Kharma 3.2 - over $20 K
I later mesured the speakers ( 1 meter on-axis using a Phonic PAA3 ) as +/- 3db from 40 hz to beyond 20 khz....
Of particular note was the bass which measured:
+0.9 db at 40 hz
-7.7 db at 31.5 hz
Note : There is very little musical information below 40 hz and all rooms under 25 ft significantly add to in-room bass !!
This is a staggering achievement without resorting to porting / transmission lines / passive ratiators or many of the usual sins committed toward achieving increased percieved bass....
I am a great fan of John Dunlavys huge sealed enclosure Speakers ( Model 4A and upward ) and spoke to this legend several time at CES......
The Magico Mini has managed to retain the outstanding bass accuracy and coherence of these larger Dunlavys in a modest and much more attractive package.
The achilles heel of all two ways is that when driven hard ( with large bass excursions ) the mid/bass driver can no longer track the smaller midrange modulations ... consequently the midrange and sound stage collapses....
I learned this the hard way as my two way JMlab Micro Bes with Rel Stadium failed hopelessly compared to the three
JMlab Diva at high listening levels.... the issue was not bass but midrange / soundstage coherence.
The Minis handle this situation better than any two way I have heard and question the need for a third driver....
So what it boils down to this :
1. If you are an audio phile who beleives in the numerous benifits of nearfiled listening ( listening 7-10 ft.) then this is the best speaker I know...irrespective of cost.
2. The Magico Mini is the best speaker I have heard under $ 30k for rooms up to 400 sq ft. ... that is ca. 25 x 16 ft. If your room is bigger or you like to listen over 15 feet away at high levels then a three way (which can move more air) may be a better choice.
3. The build quality of the speakers (and matching stands) is stunning and I dont doubt for an instant that the parts cost to retail is WAY higher than typical hi end speakers ... The cabinets are hugely expensive and time
consuming to build ( made from numerous sheets of expensive birch play ... the same wood as used in many mucial instruments... another intriguing feature).
I am waiting the upcoming CES (Jan 5-8) to finalize my purchase decision but with over 25 years experience with references such as the Classic BBC monitors (Spendor SP100,SP2/1, LS3/5a and Harbeth M30) and the more recent Kharma 3.1/3.2 and JMlab Utopia Altos, I am pretty confident my next speakers will be Magico Minis....
I take my hat off to Alon for percevering with such a purist and no compromise design knowing that it will be a hard sell to the majority of audiophiles who beleive
in quantity ( of drivers ) over quality.
Audiogon member : Ceol
P.S. Regarding sensitivity and ease of drive ...
I consider the Minis an easy load...efficiency is 88 db... My 30 watt Resolution Audio / DNM amp drove them with ease
as did the 845 based De haviland Tube Monoblocs. |
Boa,
Magico is just setting up dealers now for the first time. Hopefully over the course of 2006 more and more cities will be covered. It takes time to develope a dealer distribution network.
Magico is a MFG and not setup to offer retail service, however if you're really interested in buying a top tier speaker than please contact me, and we'll see what we can work out for you to hear them. Meantime, sorry for the inconvenience.
BTW: If you live in N. Los Angeles and want to hear Wilsons, which have been around how long? .... you'll have to drive 2.5 hours to San Diego.
Thanks,
Jay |
Howard,
I know it is frustrating to hear that. How do you think it makes us feel? But it is simply part of our growing up. A year ago, we did not even have a dealer in CA at all. We are no longer demoing our products in our facility. It is too much for a manufacturer to deal with. That is why we have dealers. Not very many but if you are serious about buying a $20K loudspeaker, a short flight to San Diego should not discourage you. Especially, if the dealer is offering to reimburse you for your troubles. Think how many, much more established, companies have no representation in the Bay Area or California at all. We doing the best we can. I am truly sorry that at this point, it is not good enough for you. Hopefully, we will get some representation in the Bay Area soon.
Regards,
Alon |
To make this easier ... just listen to them. Form your own first hand impression ... hear them for yourself. I'm trying to do just that. I wrote to Mr. Wolf and asked if I could hear the speakers, but was informed that the closest dealer is in Southern CA. In fact, I live only an hour's drive from Mr. Wolf, but must travel 400 miles--or attend CES--in order to hear his products. He suggested that if I were to purchase a pair of speakers after auditioning them in Southern CA, the dealer would be happy to reimburse me the cost of the airfare. Like I said, I'm trying here. Granted, everyone has the right to do business in the manner he/she chooses. However, I find this approach to be most un-accommodating, and it marks the first time a manufacturer has responded as such. |
Maybe you guys should check out the DK Design Group X-Dream. It may just be the speaker that can go head to head with the Magico - http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue20/dkdesignsf7.htm
The interesting thing is, both companies have a very similar design philosophy. Both use extremely massive aluminum machined enclosures, cross-over parts from Mundorf, and the most exotic drivers in the world. The 8 inch woofer on the X-Dream can do 1 inch of linear excursion, suggesting enormous bass output from a small enclosure - which is also similar to the huge excursion capability of the Magico Mini woofer.
The X-Dream costs a bit more, but it is a floorstander machined out of 350lbs of aluminum each. It would be really interesting to do a listening comparison between these two models. |
Sorry, Henry. From my experience, I found the MINI to sound big and dynamic. So much that you don't believe that you are listening to a monitor. While they aren't full range, (they do drop off at 40 HZ (?) as Audiorevalation states), the MINI midbass are fuller and more coherent then just about any full range speaker out there.
I believe that the enclosures weigh over 200 pounds, which doesn't seem like much until you consider we are talking about a monitor.
Anyone considering a speaker in that price range owes it to themselves to audition the Magico MINI.
I have owned one of their earlier full range models, the "Magico 3", for the past 6 years and have no regrets. I bought mine used (seller went up the Magico line and bought the "Reference") and have no connection to Mr. Wolf, other than being a very satisfied customer. I am not a dealer, either.
"So, say what you will, the proof is in the listening and when set up right the Minis will put all squabbles to rest in under 10 seconds."
"Nothing else I've ever heard can touch them in any way, in any parameter. Imaging, clarity, accuracy, pick any of the nouns we use to try to describe the sound of a speaker, any noun at all, and these little monitors are the best at doing that noun that I've ever heard."
Well said, guys. This can be said for all Magico speakers and appears to be the Magico "house sound". I've also found that they are some of the most best at detail retrieval, as well. Minute details which are usually obscured are easily heard.
To make this easier ... just listen to them. Form your own first hand impression ... hear them for yourself.
Best wishes,
Jack |
I've had a pair of Magico Minis for maybe six months now. I bought them used on Audiogon at half price. I've owned lots of speakers over the last thirty years and I've heard lots more. Nothing else I've ever heard can touch them in any way, in any parameter. Imaging, clarity, accuracy, pick any of the nouns we use to try to describe the sound of a speaker, any noun at all, and these little monitors are the best at doing that noun that I've ever heard.
Expensive? Oh yes. But they cost what they cost because they do what they do. Anything else is less. I would have spent full price to buy them, once I heard them, I just got lucky enough to get them at a much reduced price.
So there is really no discussion needed here, none at all. These are the best there are. Either someone can afford them or they can't. If they can, they have the best speaker in the world, at least the best I've ever heard. And if they can't afford them, they don't have the best speaker in the world. See how simple it is? |
While I’ve posted to a discussion groups only about twice a year, I have to open my mouth here (and it can get big). First to state upfront; I'm a dealer for Magico and I’ve only recently received my first pair. As a dealer for Avalon, Kharma, Martin Design and Fried and previously JM lab Utopias and numerous others I think I can speak with some degree of authority as to their sound / production value.
For starters the Magico Mini is by far the best production value (cost of materials and labor) (I’ll get to their sound below) I've seen in any upper end speaker, say over $3,000, in terms of what it cost to make vs. the retail price. Jeff Rowland, who uses them for his reference, confirmed this extraordinary value when I asked him about their cost to manufacture. They should sell in excess of $30k based on production cost no if, and, or butts. It doesn't matter if it is in your price range or not or if you consider expensive speakers to be silly or you're ready to seriously consider one. They offer a better production value than any other hi-end speaker I know of.
Having said that, production value doesn’t mean much as to how something sounds. In the case of the Mini’s the sound is out of this world fantastic in every way possible and nothing currently in my store offers as good a sound. Note: I have other speakers in similar price ranges but do not currently have other brands that are more expensive so I can’t say these will be better than my other brands more expensive models. I can be most confident nothing will beat their value.
The Minis have perfect tonal balance, lots of authority, huge, huge, huge (did I mention huge?) soundstage – fantastic dynamics, resolution and everything else you can think of. These will be what I personally listen to for the foreseeable future. I like subs for some music with most any speaker and a $2,000 Velodyne sub works just fine when called upon (the Minis have plenty of output to 40hz and fade fast below that). For the person who wants a truly state of the art speaker in a most elegant package this is it.
Why did I become a Magico dealer? Because a terrific customer of mine, who I had sold a pair of JM lab Diva Utopia’s ($11500) later bought a pair of Magico’s and told me they made his Divas sound downright poor. He couldn’t stop raving about them over a period of months! Not to mention Jeff Rowland telling me over and over how special they are – and he’s heard a few speakers in his day.
I heard them in Denver RMAF and the room/setup wasn’t good enough for me to take the plunge (hey, these aren’t cheap!). So I had a trusted audio friend (who was also in Denver and not so impressed but totally impressed with the technology) and was about to travel to Oakland pay a visit to Magico to further investigate. Alon has been most gracious by the way in every contact with my friend and myself. This audio fanatic, super great ear’d friend came back and told me “these are the real things, buy them”. He said Denver did them no justice and he further thought they were unquestionably better than my current top 2 way at the same price. This friend who has owned JM lab Utiopia’s and Kharma’s knows what he’s talking about enough so I took his advice. He now wants a pair of Minis as well saying they are the best 2 way speaker made. I ordered, I heard, I believe.
So, say what you will, the proof is in the listening and when set up right the Minis will put all squabbles to rest in under 10 seconds. Visit me in S. California to hear for yourself whether or not you would ever spend for them doesn’t matter – it will be a pleasure to hear them and mine to demo them for you.
There, I’ve made my ‘post’ maybe even for the next 6 months.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Jay |
Can someone post what their listening exp has been in a bit more detail other than they are exceptional? How do they compare to others, perhaps more well known speakers? How about comparing to say Kharma 3.2? Or any others? Can someone give us a sense what they are like in character? |
Ozzy62,
I'm not a speaker manufacturer like you, so I do not know the price of manufacture. I imagine that, as with anything, as numbers produced increase, the price per unit goes down. This is well known to most with ultra high end, (Read: low numbers produced) products.
"I am not going to slam ANY speaker's sonic merits w/o hearing them."
No, but you'll question their value without, right?
(This reminds me of a statement that an ol' College Chemistry Professor used to share with us, "You can't beat first hand information".)
Being that we are all different, we are likely to have different veiws of the term "value" and will have different criteria in which we base the term. Experience, exposure, acuity and wealth likely have some input as well.
"Ok, you are right. I should hear them. But I still contend that no matter how good they sound, someone will make a full range speaker that will compete at the same price, or less."
That, of course, may be true ... although I'm not so sure after hearing the Magico Monitors. Which $20K full range would you compare them to? (Oops, I forgot, you have not heard the Magico monitors). Do you plan on attending CES?
"... but it's up to the buyer to make his decision and spend his $$$$."
How very true. What seems apparent is that terms such as value and quality are different for each of us and that it usually helps to have first hand experience.
Best wishes,
Jack Seaton |
Jack,
They may be exceptional, but they still cost 20 large. So you are telling me that you would spend that when you may be able to get the same performance for 10K, or 15K. What about even better sound for that much or even less? I am not going to slam ANY speaker's sonic merits w/o hearing them. But I will say that even if I could afford twenty thousand dollar speakers I would have a hard time paying that for a small monitor on a stand that probably cost less than five thousand dollars to produce, probably a lot less. And to add insult to injury, I would more than likely have to add an expensive subwoofer to the final price tag.
Ok, you are right. I should hear them. But I still contend that no matter how good they sound, someone will make a full range speaker that will compete at the same price, or less. I have raised valid concerns, but it's up to the buyer to make his decision and spend his $$$$.
Oz |
Ozzy62: You should hear them, then make judgements. There are varying price points in everything in life.
One can spend anywhere from $1K to $30K for a 2 carat diamond, the price relecting the quality. Some are fortunate enough to afford the higher quality diamond, should they have the desire.
This says nothing about those who can or can not afford the best. It simply states the price for quality.
Additional analogies can be provided in other luxury items, should you require. Boats? Automobiles? Real Estate?
Alon's mini monitors are exceptional.
Amenra: Okay, you are up to 3 posts ... all about speakers. LOL.
Best wishes,
Jack Seaton |
Sorry, that should have read...
20K mini monitor, my bad.....
Oz |
A 2K mini monitor? Where do I get in line......?
Oz |
Jes45,
The lack of posts from someone does not diminish their credibility. I,like many others, choose to post only when moved to.
Alon,
To be clear, we have met. Prior to our meeting,I tried contact by phone and email. Other than stating my experience, I have no agenda. What drew me to your company is/was your desire to seek out the cutting edge. What pushed me away was my experience with you. I do not feel it is appropiate to go in depth on a forum. In contrast, another has stated a different experience. If you feel that your interaction with all your potential customers has been beyond reproach, then nothing I can state should bother you. As noted, you produce intriguing products. |
I appreciate your kind respond. In fact, it calmed me right back down. I guess I should hang around more often so I can understand better this form “unspoken rules of conduct”. Thanks.
Alon |
Relax Alon. Those of us who that are fortunate enough to have your speakers know that you are not a difficult man to deal with and that your speakers are truly "World Class" in every way ... from the fit and finish to their exceptional sound.
Forums such as this have always been subject to abuse and agendas. Amenra has but 2 posts he has participated in, one was to state that he uses Venture Audio Grand Excellence, the other to make remarks about Magico and your customer service, (which I have always found as exceptional as your speakers).
This said, I would not get overly excited about a man who on his second post, makes such remarks ... (it's called credibility, of which he lacks in these forums). Most folks will see past his remarks and take them for what they are worth, which is usually the case here and at Audio Asylum.
By the way, I had the opportunity to see photos of Ezra's Magico References after the wood inlays. They are beautiful. He has placed an order for 2 sets of TRL M-1100 mono-blocks! I hope to make it out to Chicago this summer and hope to get an invite.
Respectfully,
Jack Seaton
Proud Magico 3 owner |
Mr Wolf is right here! If you like to bash and trash, you better have your story right. First, you said “note is the company's refusal to answer emails or return calls” but then, on your second reply, you mention that you had the pleasure of “communicating with Mr. Wolf on several occasions”. I wonder how you had communicated with me if I do not reply back to emails or phone calls. Did we ever meet? Who are you anyway? Where have you heard the MINI? What is your agenda? |
Speedy,
I forgot about the Utopia. Very nice 2 way. I still prefer the Peak but the Utopia is a nice alternative.
I've had the displeasure of communicating with Mr. Wolf on several occasions. Suffice it to say, I would prefer not to do business. I truly wish my experience was different because Magico's products are very interesting. |
To me,on paper,this looks like a real contender to be taken very seriously.I did see the designer's profile,and he looks to be highly trained,and capable.
I'm willing to bet that this two way becomes very well known,as opposed to well owned(due to price).As to the lack of return e-mails,I sort of understand that this is a new, "high line" co.,and there is only so much manpower available to deal with us all.This should probably self correct with time,but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
BTW--the Peak is supposed to be superb,but I have also heard the JM Labs Micro Be,and BOY is that thing a "WINNER".It's alot less dough than either of the first two contenders as well.
Best regards. |
I've heard the Mini. It is a 2 way that requires a lot power to sound good. I also found the mid bass /mid range to sound "chesty" Also of note is the company's refusal to answer emails or return calls. The 2 way that does it for me is the Peak Consult Incognito(at 15K,it is 5K cheaper to boot). |
