Gustard R26

You got that right.  Your bad.

I have no interest in spending my time doing an apples to apples comparison of the X26 vs the R26.

@pinwa Gotcha.  Makes total sense.  Can’t even believe I had the nerve to even suggest such a silly thing. 

I have no  idea why you feel you can "task" me with answering your questions

Hey, let’s be clear here — I don’t give one great God Damn what you do or don’t do, but understand your perception of both DACs is heavily flawed given the different setups and therefore is of little/no use to anyone here.  I was just trying to give a helpful suggestion that maybe you hadn’t considered and that would be more useful and interesting to those of us here who actually think apples-to-apples comparisons are a worthwhile thing.  How was I to know I was talking to an ostrich who’d rather just bury his head in the sand instead of just simply changing a couple connections and perhaps learning something useful?  My bad.  Sheesh. 

@soix I have no interest in spending my time doing an apples to apples comparison of the X26 vs the R26.  I was careful to specify the configuration of both DACs to let the reader draw their own conclusion.  The only thing that is relevant to me is my impression that the R26 in the configuration I intend to use it it sounds better than the X26 in the best configuration I have found to use it.  I have no  idea why you feel you can "task" me with answering your questions but I suggest you buy both DACs and write an exhaustive review of your own if that is what you are interested in.  

The Iris connects to the X26 through AES or Coax. I2S doesn’t work.

@pinwa Then why not connect the Iris to the R26 via AES/EBU or SPDIF?

The Raspberry Pi endpoint might be the weak point in my streaming setup so directly connecting the LAN to the R26 was attractive.

Then why not hook up the X26 this way as well? Either way at least you’ll be doing an apples-to-apples comparison. Not sure why you wouldn’t want that type of comparison.

There is a guy on the Denefrips Facebook page that tested dozens of I2S cables and his conclusion was that longer is better.

No offense to “a guy on Facebook,” but using a longer HDMI cable for i2S, assuming he was using HDMI cables, makes no sense given that an i2S signal degrades rapidly over distance given the way it was designed. If he was using USB cables that might make some sense I guess but not sure about how i2S travels through USB so maybe someone here might chime in on that.

@soix The Iris connects to the X26 through AES or Coax.  I2S doesn't work.  What does or does not make sense to you makes little difference to me but rationally the  better the DAC the less important the DDC should be.  In my experience the Iris made a big difference with the Ares II, a little difference with the Pontus II, and very little difference with the X26.  There is a guy on the Denefrips Facebook page that tested dozens of I2S cables and his conclusion was that longer is better.  

@pinwa I find it hard to believe the Iris works with the X26 but not with the R26. That makes no sense to me, nor does it make any sense that the i2S connection makes little difference over USB. What HDMI cable are you using for i2S and how long is it. i2S doesn’t work well over distance and my i2S cable is 6”. Also, what’s the rest of the equipment in your system?  Make an apples to apples comparison or this is pretty useless IMHO. 

@pinwa 

get on the head fi discussion. There are details on the I2S pin configuration for r26. In simple form people have had to short pin 15. There are other DDS units that work with r26. 

@soix Three reasons.  1) The Raspberry Pi endpoint might be the weak point in my streaming setup so directly connecting the LAN to the R26 was attractive.  2) The Iris is incompatible with the I2S pinout of the R26 so that mode of connection is unavailable.  3) With the X26 the Iris makes very little difference vs a USB connection direct to the Raspberry Pi.  The difference is small enough that it is hard to hear much less decide that it is better.  The only reason I use the Iris is because it "ought" to be better, not because I know that it is better.

@pinwa I have to ask why you wouldn’t also feed the R26 with the Iris?  When I fed my R2R DAC with the Iris and an i2S connection the difference was quite remarkable.  Seems like the R26 is fighting with one arm behind its back at this point. 

Thanks both. I'll do a little digging. I'm glad you are excited, @pinwa That's usually a good sign. 

@whart  I'm guessing @sgreg1  is referring to the thread at Head-Fi which is almost 2300 posts long.  Many of the posts are fairly technical so that might be a better place to ask your question about DSD.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the R26 changes with more burn in.  I was just excited about how it sounded after only 36 hours.

I can’t recall off the top of my head. I am on another thread for the r26 that gives this level of detail. I would post the link but I know agon would pull it. I know the access to the r2r ladder is determined by the input used. Not the sample rate. People adding an external clock will by pass internal clock snd it goes straight to the ladder.

@pinwa

@whart

@pinwa (and @sgreg1) -thank you for the impressions and additional thoughts. Just out of curiosity, when this DAC processes DSD, does it do so through chips rather than r 2 r?

@pinwa

Give the r26 more burn in time before being too critical. The first real sign of what this dac can accomplish will come in at 100 hours. Then after 200 hours it will be in full stride. Mids for vocals will be in the room with you, bass will be tight and punch you in the gut, highs will sound fantastic with a very little roll off and I mean very little to the point you have to strain to notice. I do not like to make the “like vinyl” comparisons, what I like most with my r26 is I have to drag my self away. I can spend hours at a time listening and the music just flows. You are right with the large sound stage. For me it is like my Vandersteen’s are four time large than before. Dynamics allow you to hear every instrument right in its correct placement. My favorite setting is nos off slow filter through lan input. Down side to this is Currently using mconnect and it sucks, I will be replacing how I access lan very soon.

@whart I have the X26 Pro and took advantage of the Black Friday Sale to buy the R26 which came Thursday.  I hooked it up to my LAN and Roon recognized it without any problems.  I burned it in for about 36 hours before I listened to it this evening. The X26 is connected to Roon through a Denafrips Iris DDC and a Raspberry Pi connected to an Etherregen.  The R26 is just plugged into an ordinary ethernet cable connected to the same router as the X26.

So first impressions are basically WOW.  It is a significantly different sound from the X26.  I will need to spend more time listening critically to make sure that first impression holds but the R26 has a lot more presence, much bigger dynamics, and quite a bit more top end definition which surprised me.  In many ways it sounds more like vinyl.  Only downside so far is that midrange vocals might be marginally less weighty.  

I was prepared for the differences to be much smaller, especially since I bought the X26 Pro at the same time as I got a Pontus II and I tore my hair out for 6 weeks trying to hear any differences and decide which one to keep.  The difference between the X26 and R26 is immediately apparent.  I'll report back after my first blush of enthusiasm wears off and let you know if I still prefer sound of the R26.

GUSTARD R26 Discrete R2R Decoder with Streamer/Renderer PCM768&DSD512 (shenzhenaudio.com)

Sale

@sgreg1 have 200+ hours on mine now and it is the best DAC I have had in my system so far by some margin. FYI my digital front end is as follows:

Linksys router powered by a LHY 25 LPS -> Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable -> Melco S100 switch powered by a Ferrum Hypsos LPS -> fiber optic cable -> Lumin P1 -> Audioquest Coffee USB -> Singxer SU-6 DDC -> Audioquest Vodka HDMI I2S -> R26 -> Audioquest Water XLRs -> amplifier

I ordered a master clock from LHY (the OCK-2) they just released and I assume there will be another sonic boost from this addition to the chain since every upgrade and tweak so far has made a sonic difference. IME this DAC will scale as you upgrade what comes before it - AND I suspect what comes after. Unequivocally the best $ I've spent in this crazy hobby so far.

@westcoastaudiophile - Haven't had the opportunity to audition the K-01XD (CD/SACD/DAC version) or N-01XD (Network DAC) yet myself, but have heard from several sources I trust as well as reviews that they're exceptional. Word is that the new XD DAC designs were a huge step forward from the previous X versions which used top of the line but off the shelf DAC chips from AKM. I have heard the Teac UD-701N which uses the basic design of the XD DAC but in a much simpler and more cost effective implementation and I wasn't really impressed. The Esoteric versions are designed on an entirely different level but of course their pricing is commensurate with their higher performance.

@bill_k found more info about esoteric xd series dac - yummy! 

“[Capable of] 64-bit resolution and overwhelming performance. However, the true essence of this DAC cannot be discussed merely in terms of its specifications. The fundamental goal in the development of the Master Sound Discrete DAC was to achieve an accurate, full-bodied reproduction of all the vibrancy and energy of music. Music is infused with all the passion that a performer brings to a passage, with instantaneous and explosive energy. We wondered if it was possible to use higher-grade parts than integrated chips, as well as more luxurious materials, to create a more powerful DAC that could deliver a superlative analog signal. This idea led us to the discrete DAC. Esoteric’s top engineering team painstakingly invested their very pride into realizing this complete, full-bodied sound.

Featuring four DAC circuits per channel, their eight circuit elements are arranged in a semi-circle for equidistant signal transmission within each DAC. This total of 32 circuit elements are arranged in two circles that present a luxurious structure with all constituent components, including resistors, logic ICs, and power supplies, separated for all 32 of the circuits. Since each of these 32 circuits utilizes an independent power supply circuit, the music’s full burst of energy can be output in its purest form. Furthermore, by selecting the same sort of ultra-high precision resistors used in measuring instruments, the DAC can perform high-speed digital arithmetic processing with greater accuracy.

With a discrete DAC, where component tolerances are directly linked to arithmetic precision, highly advanced quality control is also required for the manufacture of electronic circuit boards. Esoteric’s own in-house factory boasts some of the world’s leading board mounting technologies, such as soldering performed in an oxygen-free furnace, which is located in a clean room featuring the same level of cleanliness found in a hospital operating room. Technologies cultivated in the production of electronic circuit boards for audio, medical, aerospace, and defense industries support the high production quality of the Master Sound Discrete DAC.”

@bill_k noted, thanks for details! 

@westcoastaudiophile - Glad you're enjoying the Esoteric XD series. One point of correction though is that they are not using an R2R DAC design, according to their website the proprietary XD DACs are a discrete design using ESOTERIC’s exclusive Delta-Sigma (ΔΣ) modulator. You may have confused the fact that they're a discrete design with them being R2R. Just a technicality though, what really matters is their performance which by all reports is exceptional.

@sgreg1 thanks for taking risk and sharing your experience! 

I am surprised to hear as Gustard design engineers were able to produce decent R2R DAC product! Creating R2R DAC, assuming 20years product life time and other variables,  is very hard! So far my favorite R2R DAC is the latest XD series of Esoteric (same as Teac), which I trust more because of previous experience.

Yes I received the r26 and have been out of country for a while but now back. Have about 150 hours on it. I will try to make this short. I have never been more pleased with a purchase ever. First listening the bass jumped out and highs were sharp and sterile. At about 75 hours it all started to come together. I have thrown every thing at this I can and I just want to listen to more. My favorite setting is Qobuz through lan and nos. The sound stage is huge and at any time you can single out sny instrument you want to listen to. I think the biggest take away is my Vandersteen 2 se signatures sound like they are four times bigger than before. This dac is best described as musical you just want to sit and list to more. My go to Stevie Ray “tin pan alley” was given new life. When Stevie is singing the lyrics “better place to be” when both b’s are started you ban hear the air hitting the mic. Same with Tull “thick as a brick” you can almost feel Ian Anderson spitting on you when playing the flute. With the majority of dac’s I have heard the one thing I have never been impressed with have been drums. To me digital just can’t do drums until now. It is not perfect but the note decay for drums is the best I have heard. This will not go down as the best dac that can compete with the 20k and 30k models but it should win the award for best bang for the buck dac hands down. Down the road I will look into a ddc unit to take advantage of the I2S connection and external clocking but right now the Gustard R26 does not make me feel rushed at all. Anyone sitting on the fence jump off head first.

OP, any update of the r26?

I hope they begin 1v1 Battle all of these firmware upgrades online.

I just put my KRELL DUO 175XD up for sale. It is sonically a lot like the CODA #16 because the KRELL is Class A like the mostly Class A #16. The CODA #16 is more powerful even though it is 150 watts vs the 175 of my amp. The current is very high on the #16.

I am going back and forth between the CODA #16, KRELL 375XD mono, or if my investment succeeds, the upcoming KRELL KSA i400. Though that maybe too big, too heavy, and more expensive than KRELL originally stated.

I want a powerful amp for the KEF Blade 2 Meta. The 175XD is not enough for the room I am putting the speakers into (high volume).

@yyzsantabarbara the #16 is too expensive for me at this moment given the looming recession but if my investments weather the storm I might go for it. Which Krell specifically are you thinking?

@kairosman I did have the CODA CSiB and KRELL K-300i integrated at the same time. I sold the CSiB to get the CODA 07x and CODA #8 (I also heard the amazing CODA #16 with the 07x). I sold the KRELL K-300i to eventually buy the KRELL DUO 175XD. I sold the 07x, #8, and looking to trade-in the KRELL 175XD for a more powerful KRELL amp. Just not sure which one yet.

I really like the Benchmark LA4 preamp with both the CODA and KRELL amps over the respective integrated amps. Though, both integrateds are very good.

The Gustard was a very good DAC.

@yyzsantabarbara ya had the X26, great DAC for the $, and sold it to fund a 005 as well, curious about this R2R as an alternative sound signature, if it is as good as the preliminary reviews suggest I would buy it to pair with my CODA CSIB which I think you too at some point had, no?

On another site they said the firmware was for roon end point. One owner said it disables some functions when he did the update. I will not be using roon thus I am holding off on update. Everything I need is working fine.

Thanks, @soix 

I am using the version F.20 firmware for my X26Pro. I am hoping they start posting all of these firmware updates on the website.

Interesting, there never was any update for the x26 I have had for 9 months. Obviously the r26 is new technology to them.

There is a firmware update for you R26 on the Gustard website if you need it.

Official website of Costa | Driver download (gustard.cn)

@whart Check out soundnews.net as he writes good reviews and I think reviewed them both. 

Be interested in what @sgreg1 concludes.

Has anybody had both the R26 and the X26Pro at the same time to compare them? I bought the X26Pro a couple years ago now, I was quite surprised by how supple it sounded (using the Vivid setting). I'm not deep into digital playback, more an LP/analog guy, but huge level of performance for the money. It is still not comparable to my analog chain, but it was a minuscule outlay compared to that. 

TIA.

Gustard R26 delivered today. Order placed on 8/31/22 seven day delay from ccp lock downs in city of  warehouse . Have up and running in system playing Austin blues radio stream. First two hours I am already very happy. Fist big notice is bass.  Nothing muddy clear tight bass can easily tell the difference between kick drum, bass guitar, and upright. Other first take it does seem a little bright on the upper mids. Will let it snd all new cables burn in for the week before my real sit down and go through my go to play list. Stay tuned will have full opinion in a week.

Here is the link to a DDC that the I2S (hdmi) pin configuration can be customized to match a dac pin configuration.

Yes I am not talking about the hdmi cable but trying to connect an hdmi output from say a blue Ray into an I2S port is not recommended. Gustard make a bold typed recommendation to not do it. Does that mean it could damage the unit of just the I2S board? I do not know and do not want to find out.

Soix, I would not be concerned. Me plugging the PSAudio into the Gustard did not hurt the dac whatsoever even so the connection sounded like a cat's tail stepped on.

@baylinor That’s what I thought to initially, but OP might be talking about plugging an HDMI out from a non-i2S source like a DVD player and not just using a standard  HDMI cable from an i2S source. Still not clear on that. Anyway, on impulse I tried plugging my Oppo HDMI out into my Musician Pegasus’ i2S input and nothing happened and in checking further the Oppo’s HDMI out is not compatible with i2S and now I’m concerned I may have damaged my DAC’s i2S input although it still works fine through other inputs. In any event, lesson learned but I sure hope they agree on a standard i2S pin configuration in the near future to help avoid further confusion and frustration. It’s the Wild Wild West in some ways.

Meaning both AQ and Wireworld hdmi are meant for video also and hurt nothing.

You guys need to relax. Plugging a standard hdmi cable into a Gustard is not gonna hurt.anything. It's not the cable that is different, it's the plugs at each end. The Gustard has a smaller number of connectivity than a regular hdmi because it doesn't need to offer video. You can find the exact schematic of it at very bottom of the X26 PRO page at the Chinese authorized dealer. I sent that to Alvin when I wanted to connect to the Jay's before I bought the gustard. He in turn asked the main guy at Jay's if it would work with the gustard. Answer: exactly the same design. Prior to that I bought the PS Audio perfect wave CD transport and had to return it since plugging it into the I2s of the Gustard resulted in nothing but a distant faint distorted signal.  So far using audioquest carbon 48 hdmi and wireworld silver 7 hdmi between gustard and jay's. Both work well but I like the AQ best, clearer and more presence. 

@davide256 

read the article and do want to send out word of caution to all. Gustard is very clear that users do not plug a standard hdmi into an I2S port.  The author does not make that clear snd would hate for someone to blow out their dac connecting to what they thought was hdmi across the board!

Side note to all here. It is refreshing to have an open dialogue on this subject that is void from overly opinionated people who think their stuff is the beat all end all and the rest of us know nothing. This conversation is what brought me to the the site to begin with and I am very thankful for the input all that have added so far. 
thank you all for restoring my faith in this format!

I am interested in how this R2R sounds. I owned the X26 Pro and wrote a lot about how much I liked it on A'gon. I sold the X26 Pro to fund the purchase of the Musetec 005. I like the 005 more than the X26 Pro but I wish I had kept the X26 Pro, it had a warmer tone than the other DACs I have and that is helpful with some of my gear.

For what it's worth, the I2s on the Jay's CD2 MK3 is a perfect match to the Gustard X26 PRO.

@sgreg1 

This article may be helpful to you

If you can get a schematic of a DDC’s pin out configuration(s) you can forward it to Gustard and they should be able to tell you with certainty if it will or will not work with the R26.  I’ve done this with Musician for my Pegasus and they were very responsive and helpful.  Hope this helps.