Ground Hum with Rega RP6, Exact and TT PSU.

Pivetta, since I have a Rega that I'm quite satisfied with, I would like to know the outcome of your hum problem.

I have a Rega that hums close to the center with a Grado cartridge; but close to the center is past the record playing grooves. A HELL OF HUM sounds like you don't have your table grounded.

Greetings again.

After trying everything discussed lately there is a chance that I will return the table and exchange it for something else. My dealer has been very gracious through the whole process and will take the table back if needed. He even stopped by my house this morning and agreed that the hum is unacceptable. We have exhausted every possible scenario and even one of his RP3 in the store hums using an Elys 2. 

As I mentioned earlier I really like the sounds of the table and with music playing you don't notice the hum even during quiet passages. My wife who has an incredible ear also loves it.

As far as their design some folks complain that you can not do a lot of adjustments and since I have a Rega cartridge this remains a non issue. If I decided on another cartridge there are shims available to adjust the VTA. 

The questions remaining are: Do I like the table enough to deal with the shortcomings  or look at something else??

My dealer's other options are Music Hall, Project and The Marantz TT-15 S1. The latter sounds fantastic and it's pretty much a Clearaudio with a very expensive cartridge and tonearm. 
The other two can be purchased in packs or super packs depending of the table/cartridge package. 

I would keep it in the same price range and here we go again. 

Anyone has had experiences with the models above?? I have read lots of positive comments about the Marantz and I am looking for musicality not HI-FI jargon. Thanks again for your patience and comments. 

crazyeddy,

Roy Gandy of Rega Research has always believed in stiff, rigid and tend to a lighter weight turntable designs. Adjustable VTA will reduce stiffness and rigidity at the tonearm base. All Rega tonearms are grounded. The ground is attached to the LEFT channel neutral lead. This effectively grounds the turntable appropriately.

Rega on almost all of their tone arms are made in ONE piece aluminum extrusions and are by design TRUE/SQUARE and have no need for any azimuth adjustments. Each arm is inspected before installation on any Rega turntables or sold as separate tone arms. Rega sees no need to compromise rigidity of the tone arms with any azimuth adjustments.

Since most Rega buyers are less likely to swap out cartridges there is no real need for a VTA adjustment set up using either a grub screw or a adjust on the fly set up. Rega and 3rd party makers offer various shim type set ups to tweak the VTA to a cartridge that falls out of Rega’s cartridge design for cartridge height. One can buy a VTA adjuster that will do near on the fly VTA too. But Gandy and his engineers fear these reduce rigidity at the arm base.

My new Planar 3 has a Denon DL-110 mounted to the arm and the DL-110 is 2 or so mm taller than the standard Rega choices. It will ride tone arm slightly tail down as a result and it did not make much an issue sound wise to my listening. But I am anal enough to have concocted a DIY shim set up. I gathered 9 small metal flat washers. Stacked them in stacks 3 high, super glued each stack to make 3 shims about 2+mm tall. I drew the arm screws up and fitted these the DIY shims under the RB-330 3 point mount setup then screwed the arm back down its base. TA DA my RB-330 with DL-110 essentially rides parallel to the platter surface. Did it make a big change in sound? Well a bit but no not really too much, but I guess it settled down my anal retentive side on this issue.

It did give me a minor new issue. The arm sits higher now and dust cover closed touches the counter weight. I do wish Rega would make their dust covers a few mm’s taller. But I made a good DIY fix for it too. I found a small credit card sized flat piece of black hard rubber about 3mm thick. I took a craft knife and a steel ruler and made a clean 3mm wide strip cut. I then had a strip that was 3mm thick x 3mm wide x by 8 cm long. Then I cut this strip into FOUR, oh 2cm long pieces. I then carefully super glued the four pieces at each corner of the dust cover base taking care to indent the two rear pieces about 1cm in from the back of the dust cover base so the pieces would not interfere with the opening and closing of the dust cover. Now the dust cover clears the counter weight when closed. You hardly notice these black rubber tabs, they do not scratch the plinth either. Yes, you lose a more air tight seal at the base of the cover but meh its not a big concern. One can use an eraser cut into little tabs as such and glue these to the dust cover base if need be too. But again YES, if Rega would just make their dust covers 3-4mm. taller, there would be no clearance issues in most/all cases.

Iwal22 I'm out of town right now but when I get back I'm going to check the ground. Can you see this easily or is it hidden? I've had my tone arm off don't remember seeing this ground.

Any resolution of this problem yet? I are curious.

check the wiring of the cartridge. My RP6 with exact came from the factory with two of the cartridge wires in the wrong place. 

Thanks Bruce. Interesting info regarding the shielding around the motor. 
lwall22. Interesting comment in regards to the tiny ground wire around the tonearm. I may do the Incognito upgrade which uses a dedicated ground wire. H Rega; your tables sounds great, but you should fix this issue. 

Try this if you haven't already:
Use 1 AC wall outlet receptacle for your entire system with the possible exception of your device with the wall wart ac plug. Just use a competent AC Strip.
Next float the ground of your power amp and phono stage (use a cheater plug). The goal is to have your preamp as the only piece with a grounded AC plug. 
Initially you can use a turntable ground wire. Turn everything on and give it a try. If the HUM is still present then unground the turntable and try again. Should work unless as mentioned previously your phono cartridge and TT are angry with each other.
Good luck! 

Get a friend or somebody that knows what they are doing for help . It could be simple or hard anything from an isolation transformer or ground who knows grounds can be complicated. Also some dealers do not know squat.

Inside rega arms, at the back where the counterweight stub is threaded in, there is a ground wire attached to a tiny copper shim. The shim is held in place by tension in the deepest threads of the arm tube/stub connection. This wire comes lose and, bam, exactly the symptoms you're describing.  Tough to access and resolder but it will very likely save hours of searching for a source of hum. 

Go online and find some "MuMetal" adhesive backed shielding. Wether or not you have a ground issue Rega motors will make some cartridges hum like crazy. Lift the pulley and put a piece of the metal over motor. With luck this will solve the problem, but really needs to be done either way. 

Regards
Bruce
Anvil Turntables

pivetta-
following the thread for enlightenment.

As a former owner of Regas older generation P2,P5and RP1,
I thought Rega tables are great for the money. I just moved on to a different brand and spent 4x the Rega! Never had a noise or any issue with them.

The RP6/8 are the  "sweet spot" in the Rega lineup and nicer sounding than the 1st generation Regas.

That being said, you still shouldn't have a noise  problem even if it were the RP1!

If you're certain its isolated to the new table/cart, your dealer hopefully assists you with a fair solution.

If you keep the RP6, the aftermarket subplatter is a substantial upgrade, along with the white belt. After that, you're treading dangerous waters $$ with upgrades. I would just save for a P10 if the Rega were my thing. Good luck

Will do lenmc 2964

Pivetta please post what you find out. If it is a defective cartridge I have one too. Not much I can do at this point but go with a new cartridge. Very disappointed with Rega. 

Forgot. We are thinking a defective cartridge.

Thanks Les, Steve and Toddverrone. I appreciate everyone's input however the solution to put aluminum foil on a brand new turntable and cartridge at almost $2000 should not be an option. I have seen the video where the guy connects a cable to the ground wire of the PSU. I tried that and nothing changed. Keep in mind that the hum is still there even though the PSU is UNPLUGGED, disconnected from the table. Basically NO ELECTRICITY going anywhere. I plugged the phono preamp power supply on another outlet with an extension cord and far away from the table and  still there. My dealer will be coming by the house to check out the issue in person. He contacted Rega and they said that there is a problem with my equipment (BS).  Thanks for your replies and patience. More to follow. 

I only have an old P3 without the PSU it separate phono pre, but I do have a hum that increases as the cart approaches the spindle. I did two things to reduce it to the point that, if the volume is high enough to hear the hum from the listening position, I'd blow my speakers if I played anything:
: Moved the turntable as far away from the transformer on my preamp as possible. When it sat directly over the pre, the hum was bad

: Removed the motor and control board from the TT and mounted them on a block of wood attached to a block of granite. This is placed on an isolation platform and then the TT is placed over it. I had to install some quick connects to keep the switch functionality. While I DIYed mine, Michael Linn sells nicely manufactured kits to decouple the motor from the base.

With yours being a brand new TT, I don't think you'd want to try the second part. My P3 is 17 years old, so I didn't mind messing about. Plus, I can return it to stock in approximately half an hour. With the motor removed, though, there is such an outrageously low noise floor, it was well worth it. I think removing the power circuit board from the plinth helped a lot with the hum, and physically decoupling the motor dropped background noise. 

That being said, maybe creating a grounded aluminum shield using HVAC tape is worth a shot, since it seems to be that moving the motor PCB away from the tonearm helped. Though you have the PSU, which introduces a difference that I've not had experience with.

Hi,

I recall a poster on Youtube with the same hum issue on his RP6 and TTPSU. His solution was to grab a length of wire, careful back out the left side, back screw on the TTPSU and apply the ground wire to the screw then place screw back in place. From such he then grounded out the TTPSU to his ground post on phono preamp and TA DA the hum vanished.

Yes a thin ground wire  does then  stick out from the back of the TTPSU but his problem went away. Rega does not ground the TTPSU and on some cartridges the hum may be an issue. The Youtube video should be below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAY2rRsqHLE

Some carts are known for their  hum problem as they get closer to the motor as the album plays on Rega TT's

Grado is one cart I had to return for this very reason.

Brands of Cart's I've had that do not have a problem on the Rega...
Denon (my current pick)
Nagoka
Rega (of course - but not very good)
Goldring

You may get some reduction in hum if you place a grounded aluminum foil sheet/plate over the cavity that houses the motor - or better still place the foil tape used on HVAC duct work - inside the motor cavity and ground it.

It really is a shortcoming of the Rega TT's

I took the easy way out and replaced the cartridge

Regards - Steve

I am not sure about the issue with the Exact having 7 mv. My old Signet had an output of 5.5 MV and never had that issue. I actually tried it at a higher gain and it just got louder with ZERO hum therefore I don't know if an extra 1.5 MV would cause this problem.  To me it is obviously an issue with the table/cartridge. Thanks again for everyone's opinion. I just want stuff to work and not have to change a bunch of other equipment which works just fine. Best regards to all.

I would still ask about the 7mv. It can't hurt.

Also think about the rest of your components and if you made any changes at all. Even if you don't think its related. Here's an example. Lets say your system sounds fine, and then you buy a new pair of speakers, and now you have the same noise issue. Your first instinct is to blame the speakers, but in reality, the problem may lie elsewhere. Its just as likely one of your source components has a lot of gain, If your new speakers are more efficient than your old ones, you can easily get the same noise. Nothing is broken, its just a system matching mistake.

The above is just an example I made up so you don't overlook anything. Either way, there's no reason to worry, or get upset. Problems like this are usually easy to diag.

How about the dealer who sold you the table/arm/cartridge? Proper set-up, operation, and your satisfaction should be included with the purchase and guaranteed.

Thanks Sfall. I understand where you are comig from, however I would not blame my dealer (at least not yet). He was very gracious to let me keep the table for about 10 days about month ago and I think that it was just a matter of a scenario in which I did not check the tonearm pushing it closer to the spindle. Again at moderate levels is not intrusive since I am using a 250 watt per channel Krell amp and I will never turn it up to the max level of 5:00 pm.  I also checked the wiring in the cartridge and it is absolutely correct. I am obviously dissapointed that the darn thing is doing this. Both my wife and I are professional musicians and absolutely love the way the table sounds and we find  it very musical. More so than my old Linn.  I am willing to take small steps and worst case scenario exchange it for something else. Will talk to my dealer on Tuesday since they are closed tomorrow. Thanks again for your input and happy listening. 

" Only have about 40 hours on the cartridge so hate to change but it my be the solution. "

Phono carts go through a lot of break in. There were times when a new cart sounded so bad, I thought it was broken. 40 hours is a good start, but don't make a decision until you have at least 100.

I'm using a Rega Fono phono preamp and still have the hum issue. But I think it could be the cartridge. My RP3 came with a Elys and I had the same hum. Thought upgrading to the Exact might take care of it. Only have about 40 hours on the cartridge so hate to change but it my be the solution. 

Pivetta, I used the alligator clip clipped on the ground portion of the RCA jack. It was cumbersome and would work its way loose. But it did identify the problem. However if you have disconnected ed the Rt. Channel and the hum is there, this not the solution. 
Hard to say at this point, have you double checked the cart leads or tried another cartridge? There used to be an issue with Grado carts producing a hum as the tonearm approached the spindle. I remember reading that there were "Mu metal" shields to place around the motor, but really don't recall much beyond that.

" Sfall mentions to lower the gain which It is already done. "

Its probably still a gain issue. The Exact puts out 7.0mv. Just to give some perspective, a very common high output cart like the DV10x5 puts out 2.5mv. Most likely, nothing is broken, you just have a mismatch. Your dealer probably didn't say anything about it because its a package deal and they didn't want to lose the sale if they told you it would be necessary to buy a phono pre as well.

Call your dealer Monday and tell them the cart they sold you puts out 7mv and is over driving your phono preamp on the lowest gain setting, and see what they say.

Thanks Theo. Could you be a little more specific using an alligator clip?? I just unplugged the right channel and nothing changed. I talked with the folks who do the incognito wiring upgrade and they said that it not a cure for the ground issue. I Have read nothing but positive reviews on their work and the guy is about 1 1/2 hours from my house. May consider it however I will talk with my dealer first thing on Tuesday when they open. Thanks again you all.

I had a similar issue years ago with a P25. Since Rega doesn't use a ground wire on the tonearm, I ended up getting the tonearm retired with the Incognito kit. That ended my issue, however I believe that Rega uses the right channel ground of the SE connection for ground. I did try an alligator clip before investing, that revealed the solution before I invested. So you may try that, as a note I have an RP10 with a Kleos and have no ground hum. 
Good luck

My RP6 has never had a hum and I've used mine with 3-4 different phono preamps as well without issue.  Also the lift mechanism also lowers very slowly.  More than likely you have a defective unit. Since it's on loan try another or send it back. 

I would send it back and purchase another brand turntable.  FWIW, I have had 3 VPI turntables over the past 25 years and I  never got a hum from any of them.  I am using a low output mc cartridge (.3mv) and no hum.

I hear you johnk. I think that I have buyer's remorse. I totally agree with that the sub platter is not all that great but once you put the platter on top it has lots of inertia. I think the tonearm is very good. I was talking to my wife and wished that i have never sold my Linn Axis which was DEAD QUIET after 28 years of use. The Rega does sound better in my opinion and I will give it a chance. I am also considering doing the incognito Wiring upgrade to see if that helps. I will talk to the rep and my dealer to see what they say. 

lenmc2964. I will try what you suggest however I have learned in my life that if something works keep it and do small improvements. I listen to a lot of classical music and there are soft passages which you can hear the hum a bit more. I am also disappointed that you have to hold the tonearm lift mechanism otherwise it drops too quickly and it tends to jump into the track and not from the beginning. AARRRRGGGHHHHHH.

A big reason I run from Regas now besides the overly cheap build quality the terrible plastic speed control the poorly designed dust covers....They love to hum. My RP6 did I couldn't rectify so off it went to agon. I owned a good bit of rega over the decades but not any more run run from rega products get a VPI dont look back.

Pivetta just curious do you hear the hum while a album is playing? I do not. Only as I move the tonearm from the edge to the center of the platter.
But it drives me crazy knowing it's there. I have a pair of Wyred 4 Sound mAmps 430 watts into 4 ohms my speakers are 5 ohms and I do play my music very loud. I have taken the arm completely off but everything looks fine. I too have Googled this and there are a lot of complaints. I’ve upgraded cables moved the phono preamp, grounded the phono preamp nothing helps. Wonder if it’s the cartridge have thought of going with a Ortofon 2M Black but then you have to shim the tonearm. Don’t understand how Rega gets great reviews when so many people have problems.

Thanks lenmc2964. I will try that and will play with it this afternoon. I absolutely love the sound of the table but as I mentioned before when I buy something it is supposed to work, period. I encourage you to do some research before you decide to upgrade. My trusty 28 year old Linn Axis never had this issue with the exception of when I turned the volume all the way up I would just heard the normal hiss. I am aware that I will never play this at full volume sine my Krell Amp puts out 250 watts per channel. If you do a search on Google you will get a lot of complaints in regards to noise and some folks just think that Rega knows about this problem and won't do anything about it. My system is fully balanced from preamp to power amp, cd player and it is ultra quiet with a dedicated line going to it. The Aragon 47 K as a separate power supply and I will try to move it as far aways as possible to see if it will alleviate the problem but I highly doubt it since it seems like it is an issue with the table's design.

Best regards to all. 

I have a Rega RP3 with the Exact ,TTPSU, and the Rega Phono Pre Amp and have the same problem. I sometimes get the hum as i place the arm over the album not all the time. But as you move the arm closer to the center of the album the hum increases. I do not hear it when playing a album not even between songs. One thing I did do that helped the hum when just placing the arm over the album is I removed the plastic clamp holding the cable to the turntable freeing up the cable. This fixed the hum occurring when I placed the arm over the album most of the time. I have learned to just live with this as like you this didn't start when I first got the table. If anything works for you please let me know. I had been thinking of trading up to the RP6 bought the RP3 from Sound Stage and they have a nice trade in program but if your having the same problem don't think I'll be doing that.  

Thansk for all the responses. The Rp6 like all Rega turntables does not have a ground cable and after doing some research i have read that this is a common problem with these tables. Sfall mentions to lower the gain which It is already done. I had the table here at home on loan for about 10 days from my local dealer and I did notice that there was some hum but not as bad. Something happened after that period? Don't know. What makes the whole thing worse is that when I turn the tt psu on the noise increases as the tonearm gets closer to the spindle or where the motor resides. I will try moving things around but space and placement in my rack makes it difficult. Best regards to all. 

It sounds like you have too much gain. If your Aragon has any type gain adjustment, make sure its on the lowest setting. You may end up having to get a different phono cart or phono preamp.

If you know someone who will lend you a MM cart, try it. 

Hi pivetta- In addition to what Stefani brings up, you might want to try one of the following (or both having been through this recently with a new phono pre and turntable).

I too had a bad hum and what solved it for me was to place the phono pre away from all other equipment and also swapped out my "fancy" silver interconnects with some basic shielded RCA cables.

You should try moving the phono pre first and then maybe a cable swap.  I'd be surprised if these changes don't solve the problem for you.  

I understand that rack placement of the gear may not be ideal, but could make a night and day difference.

Try it out and report back.

Greg

Have you made sure of all connections especially the ground wire from turntable to preamp...I know its a dumb reply but the sort of issue your having could mean you have a broken ground wire or related problem.