Hiho, It's well documented that the best designs of Lenco plinths (check Lenco forums, various audio forums all over the web) usually call for super high mass plinths which use certain materials (like various plywoods and other materials). This is why the nantais and artisan Lenco's plinths are so huge.
Btw, if you think the Artisan tables are ugly because they have glossy acrylic clear coats, auto grade finishes and are well polished, then what in the world IS good looking to you? A jank rough unfinished wood plinth having jagged edges and splinters?? Geesh...
You must own a top of the line Rockport or Goldmund Reference 2 to have fit and finish standards so high. |
Aesthetically, the Artisan Fidelity stuff is really ugly to me. Its proportion, gloss, and dimensions are all so tacky to me. Your mileage may vary.
Why does the damn thing has to be so damn thick? Yuck.
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Jeremy: I agree the finish on the Artisan's is very nice - certainly more "highly polished" than the Nantais Lenco's but the more satiny finish on the Nantais is still excellent in my opinion (I prefer the more satiny look). I also think the Artisan Lenco's are proportionally too bulky looking - I haven't heard either, so I can't comment on the sound difference ( I suspect they would both sound great).
To Heyraz: It might be a good idea to sell the Garrard as is and buy and refurbish a Lenco. Garrard's sell for alot more than Lenco's so you save some money. From what I can see the Lenco's seem to be easier to refurb as well. |
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Gilles, the slate oma Lenco I listened to was cold and sterile to my ears, at least in comparison to a well build wood plinth setup with the same tone arm. Too coolish neutral sounding at just not all musical or tonally pleasing. Definitely not my cup of tea. ymmv |
Hello from France . Jeremy ,how would you describe the sound of a slate lenco ?. I personally had a plinthed one and am very satisfied. I was thinking of building one with slate and PTP.
Thanks Gilles |
"His [Nantais] work looks like it was built in someones shed by a high school woodshop student ..."
This is an unfair comment. If you look on his website gallery, his latest tables are beautiful. You may be referring to his early work. And he deserves respect for being the guy who told the world of the potential that these old tables have and started this refurb trend, which others (including Artisan) have simply copied.
BTW,I also think most of Artisan's tables look great. |
"Steve Dobbins is probably the best person in the US to tweak it and refresh the linkage and idler. "
Not true. I'd try Chris at Artisan Fidelity, rumor has it they are currently working on a new 301 restoration which is going to be out of this world. Their plinths and restorations are top notch quality and they are said to be building the highest performing Lenco based idler drives available at this time. They're better built and certainly have much better fit and finish compared the the Canadian nantais modifier/builder. His work looks like it was built in someones shed by a high school woodshop student with a can of spray paint imo.
A buddy told me Artisan has been working on a design and prototyping a plinth and all new bearing designed especially for the 301/401 Garrard for over a year and its ready now and they are taking pre-orders. I will grab either a Lenco L75 based idler or 301 grease bearing model from Artisan Fidelity once I decide which way I am going to go. I know of a cable mfg. who even uses one of Artisan Fidelity's early model modified Lenco's as his reference unit.
On a side note, those Slate plinths are awful sounding in my opinion, definitely not for me, heard one made by oma on a Lenco. Give me a well designed wood based plinth any day over that sterile Slate. Hope to never hear Slate mated to a 301, bet its rough.
Back to the posters original question though, yes a 301 can be well worth the investment if it is properly restored, modified and mated to a really high quality and well tuned/designed plinth. Its not as easy as you would think restoring these things and building the plinths these guys like Dobbins, Thornton and Porter make. There is a mountain of work and effort involved.
I completely rebuilt and restored a vintage motorcycle once down to the frame and back up again and let me tell you, there is much work involved when you are doing a top notch restoration - modification project of any kind. |
Buy a new restored one and sell yours, avoid the wait and hassle.. |
I am a huge believer in the 301, but if you want it to sing, it must be restored and recommissioned. If you plan to do it on the cheap- forget about it- there are better options.
Steve Dobbins is probably the best person in the US to tweak it and refresh the linkage and idler.
A proper base, made with resonant absorbing material such as panzerholst or slate will tame the idler vibration, is essential. A power supply, although not mandatory, adds another increment of quietness to the motor by making it run smoothly.
Although the consensus is to use a vintage tonearm like an SME, in my opinion it really sings with modern lively tonearms such as the Triplanar- an exceptional combination.
If you make the commitment, you have a top level vinyl rig.
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I fully restored a 301 last year, put it in a nice 2" slate plinth and added a 12" Moerch DP-6 on seperate arm base out of brass. I'm using Loricrafts motor controler to supply 220 volt @ 50 Hz. Done right, the high torque idler will become your best friend - I love mine and will not sell it again. You need a heavy and good plinth for the garrard. A separate arm base makes it even more quiet. I'll be glad to give you som tips if you decide to restore. |
as it was said in another thread the Garrard301 is a nice Mini Cooper- nothing more. It depends where you are heading too. Regarding Quality and listening pleasure you may end up somewhere else but if you are enjoying crossing technical barriers this is a `must do project`.
Best @ Fun Only |
.and am very happy. But maybe I don't know any better That is absolutely ok. There are lots out there who know nothing and are happy with their stuff. Be lucky, this year analog has started to go back to yesteryear. Lots believe in these old designs and are willing to spend a fortune for it. Polish and hug it, or much better, find someone who can drill a plinth from any wood in your area and sell it. Or go in Production with that. You will become wealthy. 10k$ for such a woody unit shouldn't be a big problem. Find some friends at Audiogon who support you and will create a Fangroup. And don't sell to anyone. Offering money is not enough, they have to be worthy to buy it. |
Those are great tables. Restore it and keep it, you won't regret it. |
Hi,
Do you happen to have the anti-skating weight (on a string) and the counterbalance weight that slide on the two thin aluminum posts located at the back of the tonearm?
I just bought a used T65C that is missing both of them - it has the black counterweight to balance the weight of the cartridge and apply the proper tracking weight, but not the other two smaller weights.
If you do not have these two small weights, does the TT work well without them?
Thanks,
Dave |
Look at it another way. If you spend around a third the amount that you had planned to spend for a new turntable on fixing up the Garrard, after decent research on the possibilities, of course, you'll be out a couple of grand. That's the going price of a 301 without a plinth or tonearm. You could pull off completing it with trimmings by buying a nice used tonearm and decent cartridge. For that money you would have a really nice setup that would sell for more, if you ever decided to get rid of it. That's the key. It is an investment piece that sounds good. You will always be able to recover your money because it is a very good audio investment, especially when there was no initial cost for it. If you are handy, keep it. |
I knew a guy who was quite "handy" who gave up on a 301. |
I am tempted to say sell the Garrard 301 and find a Lenco L75, because IMO the latter is potentially just as good sounding and represents a miniscule investment compared to the value of a Garrard. But I won't say that. My advice would be to keep the tt you now have or buy a low end Nottingham. (I agree with Sibelius, they are very good sounding tt's.) Meantime, learn about how to restore a Garrard and go about the work at your leisure. If you sell your useable tt and find yourself in the position of having to restore the Garrard in order to be able to listen to music from your LP collection, you will grow to dislike the project immensely and to resent the time you have to spend. Trust me; this happens. (Not only with a Garrard restoration but with potentially any vintage gear that needs TLC.) |
Listen to one and see if you like it. I have a nice belt TT (Nottingham Ana-log) that provides wonderful detail and frequency extention but the Idlers I've listened to just have more swing and drive that make you want to tap your toes more. I've caved in and am currently in the beginning stages of putting one together. For now I'm planning to keep both tables as they have a nice complementary yin/yang thing going that gives me a lot of options. |
