"Steve Dobbins is probably the best person in the US to tweak it and refresh the linkage and idler. "
Not true. I'd try Chris at Artisan Fidelity, rumor has it they are currently working on a new 301 restoration which is going to be out of this world. Their plinths and restorations are top notch quality and they are said to be building the highest performing Lenco based idler drives available at this time. They're better built and certainly have much better fit and finish compared the the Canadian nantais modifier/builder. His work looks like it was built in someones shed by a high school woodshop student with a can of spray paint imo.
A buddy told me Artisan has been working on a design and prototyping a plinth and all new bearing designed especially for the 301/401 Garrard for over a year and its ready now and they are taking pre-orders. I will grab either a Lenco L75 based idler or 301 grease bearing model from Artisan Fidelity once I decide which way I am going to go. I know of a cable mfg. who even uses one of Artisan Fidelity's early model modified Lenco's as his reference unit.
On a side note, those Slate plinths are awful sounding in my opinion, definitely not for me, heard one made by oma on a Lenco. Give me a well designed wood based plinth any day over that sterile Slate. Hope to never hear Slate mated to a 301, bet its rough.
Back to the posters original question though, yes a 301 can be well worth the investment if it is properly restored, modified and mated to a really high quality and well tuned/designed plinth. Its not as easy as you would think restoring these things and building the plinths these guys like Dobbins, Thornton and Porter make. There is a mountain of work and effort involved.
I completely rebuilt and restored a vintage motorcycle once down to the frame and back up again and let me tell you, there is much work involved when you are doing a top notch restoration - modification project of any kind. |
Gilles, the slate oma Lenco I listened to was cold and sterile to my ears, at least in comparison to a well build wood plinth setup with the same tone arm. Too coolish neutral sounding at just not all musical or tonally pleasing. Definitely not my cup of tea. ymmv |
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Hiho, It's well documented that the best designs of Lenco plinths (check Lenco forums, various audio forums all over the web) usually call for super high mass plinths which use certain materials (like various plywoods and other materials). This is why the nantais and artisan Lenco's plinths are so huge.
Btw, if you think the Artisan tables are ugly because they have glossy acrylic clear coats, auto grade finishes and are well polished, then what in the world IS good looking to you? A jank rough unfinished wood plinth having jagged edges and splinters?? Geesh...
You must own a top of the line Rockport or Goldmund Reference 2 to have fit and finish standards so high. |
Hifi in general is subjective and comes down to personal preference. I personally felt the Slate plinths with the Lenco were cold and sterile, lacking tonality and emotion. I can see why you would want your turntable to be as neutral as possible, it makes sense. One thing is for sure, this is not a "one size fits all" hobby....ymmv as they say |
Mosin, my deepest apologies, apparently no one aside from you is allowed to have or state their own opinion......
"I do support the DIY community along with my friends in the cottage industry, and I know and consider Steve Dobbins to be in that extended family. He is one of the good guys. So is Nantais, although we have been at odds from time to time"
Now we all know another shill lurking in the midst. Welcome to the club! J |
Agreed with JHendrixfan to keep it to the pro restoration companies like Artisan Fidelity (thornton), Dobbinss ect, ect.. to get the most out of these vintage decks. I heard a modded Lenco in a big modern system before and it was just incredible and spectacular but it was also modded and plinthed by a pro who clearly understood what to do with the thing to make it sound that way. People think sometimes you can head to your garage, take your hacksaw, drillpress, sandpaper and whatever and do what the top restoration mod companies do but they are totally wrong. It would be like saying that since I can fiddle with a Chevy LS1 small block V8 that I can do what Lingenfelter does with Corvette, which is ridiculous..you guys get the idea. |
Talk about a serious Garrard 301, they just launched a new reference model 301 at Artisan Fidelity I emailed Christopher about the design features, am eagerly awaiting his answer :) I am totally drooling over this table about now...price has yet to be announced. I know this one has a buyer already unfortunately...that is one lucky guy. http://www.artisanfidelity.com/Garrard-301-.html |
"However, I really do not think that they have a bunch of physicists working for them"
Neither do any of the other modifiers of Lenco or Garrard for that matter.
I somehow seriously doubt the majority of diy folks could build anything like the Artisan Fidelity 301 or Dobbins plinths in their home work shops, these guys are pros imo. And I really don't think you have any idea of the amount of design work and time that goes into an Artisan F turntable construct. If you spoke with them directly as I have, you would know exactly what I am talking about regard their research and development process. I can assure you there is nothing quick and easy about it. This outfit is really serious about their work. When I spoke directly with Chris, he explained part of the process involved prototyping the many different plinth materials for their Lenco and Garrard's and I was quite impressed to say the least. If you had any idea of how many different materials they use to achieve the proper tuning in their cld plinth construction you would be shocked. |
Lewm, I agree and my apologies also for any misunderstandings in regards to my earlier post. I'll admit that at first I was under the impression that you were indeed offended by expensive products but I was obviously mistaken. If you refer to any of my other posts regarding modifiers of vintage decks, I always give respect and credit to these enthusiasts which undertake such things, including the other well known members within the community ie. Porter, Dobins, ect. (refer to my older posts). Not everyone will ever agree on everything in this hobby but that is just the nature of things. So much is subjective, like everything else in life - not everything is for everyone - as they say. I just appreciate the extensive work these outfits do and with all the seasoned audiophiles out there using vintage modified decks, I think they do deserve serious consideration to those in the market for a new analog front end. Something else that is neat about these decks imo is they don't look like modern decks (mostly) which gives them some added appeal. To me, its like comparing a cherry hot rodded Harley D. motorcycle to a new Honda sportbike, both totally different machines for totally different enthusiasts but both are worthy of respect. In addition to some of the vintage decks, I also am a fan of modern tables, such as the Redpoint audio, Feikert Woodpecker and the incredible looking and big $$$ NVS direct drive but these appeal to me in a different way than the others and I openly admit a bias toward some of the modded vintage idler drives and direct drives but thats a personal opinion of course. By the way, sorry to disappoint theory conspirators posting above but I am not employed by any hifi outfit and was never a member of a lenco hi end audio site but am a member of DIY audio and recommend it btw, great site. Forums are really something, don't ever mistake the gossip on these sites for gospel....lol Good listening to you, J. |
Mosin, don't forget to add Sonny1930 to your conspiracy list and any other hobbyists you wish to pick on. Don't forget about the Nantais fanboys and all others..... J |
Wrong Jweiss, just don't care for the Slate sound, it's a personal preference. If I'm a shill, then so are about a hundred other posters here and on other forums who talk about products they like. Mosin, you obviously are just looking for an angle to put down others opinions. It's ok to like one thing but not another and to voice ones opinion is heresy? I mention all kinds of other tables I like in my posts (Feikert, TW, ect.) were you to actually do the reading.....give me a break people. Let the record state, since some apparently feel I only like one company - some favorite turntables are Dobbins the Beat, Artisan F 301, Porter sp10's, TW Raven, Feickert Woodpecker and RedPoint. Tonearms SME and Fidelity Research are two I think are tops also. Now, Mosin and Jweiss, if you want to call me a shill, then please get it right and call me a shill for all the above mentioned turntables this time. And why on earth either of you would care SO much about one members opinion is beyond me. J |
