I have a Denon DRS-810 for a cassette deck.
It's decent and still working.
It's decent and still working.
Frustrated with Vinly
Hey All,
Just coming here to let out out my frustration with Vinyl. I know that Vinyl takes patience but it's frustrating when playing some of my newer records and they have noises that I do not want to hear. Meaning, I try to clean them and they still have noise (pops, crackles, etc). When playing at low volumes of course you do not hear as much but when I turn up the volume is when it gets irritating.
I can understand if older vinyl would sound like this but these are my newer records that I bought (amazon or barnes and nobles).
Now, I know the products that I am using are probably not great in the first place and I will probably need to upgrade to some more serious cleaner).
Currently trying to use a combo of: Kaiu Vinyl record cleaning set and I have also tried the Audio Technica AT6012 Record Care Kit.
So now I am considering either a Spin Clean type system or Pro-Ject VC-S2 ALU Type cleaning system.
Any suggestions?
I almost want to give up on Vinyl sometimes and stick to digital (cd, hi res files, qobuz streaming).
Current equipment: denon dp-300f w/2m blue cart.
Thanks
Jay
Just coming here to let out out my frustration with Vinyl. I know that Vinyl takes patience but it's frustrating when playing some of my newer records and they have noises that I do not want to hear. Meaning, I try to clean them and they still have noise (pops, crackles, etc). When playing at low volumes of course you do not hear as much but when I turn up the volume is when it gets irritating.
I can understand if older vinyl would sound like this but these are my newer records that I bought (amazon or barnes and nobles).
Now, I know the products that I am using are probably not great in the first place and I will probably need to upgrade to some more serious cleaner).
Currently trying to use a combo of: Kaiu Vinyl record cleaning set and I have also tried the Audio Technica AT6012 Record Care Kit.
So now I am considering either a Spin Clean type system or Pro-Ject VC-S2 ALU Type cleaning system.
Any suggestions?
I almost want to give up on Vinyl sometimes and stick to digital (cd, hi res files, qobuz streaming).
Current equipment: denon dp-300f w/2m blue cart.
Thanks
Jay
173 responses Add your response
Jay73, I have no idea why so many people who've commented know you and them and talking about apples and oranges, while they pretend that you're talking about the same thing. A very expensive high end TT, plus phono pre, and cartridge are required for the noise to music ratio to get to the point where the noise disappears. It takes long green and a lot of it. |
This past Saturday I bought a sweet vinyl sugar cube mini. This unit does the job and removes most of the noise a record has. It will not take a flea market reject and turn it into an audiophile pressing but it works really well and significantly improves the vinyl listening experience. It is a little pricey but I bought it with Music Direct 12 month free financing. https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-accessories/SweetVinyl-SugarCube-SC-1-Mini |
Vinyl.....High expectations.....mostly disappointing. A fantastic mastered 24/96 or 24/192 file, imo, probably gets you the closest to what is heard in the studio monitors. I have some hi rez files that sound better than the vinyl versions. However, so much needs to be considered: 1. My TT setup is probably Mid-FI -(1200gr/ATvm540ML/Elac PPA-2 Phono) at best. 2. The digital is closer to the source. Vinyl has so many variables (vinyl quality, pressing plant practices, etc )and has many steps away from the source (cutting, stamping) 3. Plus, vinyl has its own "built in" sound characteristics that may or may not appeal to listeners. People who grew up on vinyl probably appreciates that quality more than a person who grew up digital. Much like an older movie buff probably favors the aspects of film vs the super clear, slick digital format. IMO, if you are wanting to squeeze the last bit of possible sound quality closer to the source (regardless of format), it will be much cheaper and easier to go the digital route. With vinyl, so many working pieces have to come together to get to the absolute best, top notch sound (TT, Cartridge, Phono, pressing quality, on and on). For me (growing up with records) vinyl is about the overall experience and relationship to the recording. The large album covers, the cleaning and caring of the record, etc. If I just want PUREST sound quality, I will stream Qobuz or play my hundreds of ripped SACD’s and Hi Rez downloads. Above is just my opinion.I’m sure many feel differently. |
So many opinions and suggestions, many good ones. My reaction to al of this; As some of you know I, over the last year, decided to dig out my old 2055 Kenwood turntable, all my albums, and decide if vinyl was something that would interest me again. Lots of issues, bad ones, and began correcting one thing at a time. Still not convinced, but intrigued enough to delve further, I purchased a very modest new TT; a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut, replaced the platter with an acrylic one, installed the Grado red cartridge I purchased for the old Kenwood, an inexpensive Schiit Mani phono stage, put the damn table in a tray of sand per millercarbon’s recommendation, but one of my most important purchases, an inexpensive record clamp. I also reinforced the floor below my equipment and TT with a couple 2x4’s to help stabilize the wood floor framing. And a Spin-Clean record cleaner. All in all, a very modest return to vinyl. Why? My CD’s with my transport or streaming through my DAC sounded fine. Why go through this? Well, because after 50 years, I came to realize that after listening over the past year that, yes, there is indeed a ‘magic’ of vinyl that is hard to explain. For well over 40 years of moving onto cassettes, CD’s, and now streaming, I saw no reason to deal with the inherent problems with vinyl again, particularly the maintenance, noise, clicks, pops, cleaning, etc. Well, I will admit, I may have been wrong. Currently I listen to mostly classical music, where the music can be extremely quiet to crescendo’s, I am very picky about noise on those albums, and it does get frustrating, but much of this I can blame on myself as I’m buying used older classical vinyl, which is a crap shoot at best. But, I’m loving it regardless. That is all correctable, it’s just a matter of how much money I’m willing spend on future albums, my set-up, and the extra care to treat this format properly. I’m in the process of cataloging all my music on Discogs; vinyl, cassettes, and CD’s. I’ve gone through all my CD’s and cassettes, and now going through all my old vinyl from the 60’s and 70’s. Well, for me and my friends in those days, we ‘partied’, didn’t take great care of our vinyl, stuff scattered around and unprotected while listening, it wasn’t something we over concerned ourselves with as that was the only real medium of its day (besides 8 track tapes). Or, I was just a little kid putting (throwing) my oldest Beatle albums on the family console stereo unit without a care. And going through all those albums is rough, as the lack care for them shows. But, the biggest take-away for me is through this whole process, regardless of its imperfections at times, is the vinyl sounds better to me. I’m not smitten with vinyl again, as it was the only real source at one time I purchased most of this music. But directly comparing to the other formats (and I do have some of the same albums on multiple formats), it’s sounds better to me even with its perceived imperfections. It just sounds ‘right’, and unless I’m willing to take huge steps cost wise to try and get rid of those imperfections completely (I would say that is impossible), I try not to compare to those other formats, and simply enjoy vinyl for what it is, and right now, I prefer it, and understand my current limitations for it to sound better. But if I had a choice between a CD and a vinyl album, I’ll likely choose the vinyl and just enjoy the music because it sounds more like music to me. |
Bkeske. Great post and welcome back to the analog world! You are so right about it being a total waste of time comparing different sources. I play records, cassette tapes, reel to reel tapes, CD, DVD-A, SACD and stream Qobuz and Tidal! No not doing 8 track.... Lol. I enjoy each media for what it is and rarely sit there thinking well that sounded better than the version on XXX. Each have their plus and minus points and I leave it at that. |
Nope, I have no desire to do 8-tracks again :-D, hell, I don’t even have an 8-track tape anymore. I think most got eaten in my car player back in the day. But I will say, although very inconsistent, some of my old cassettes sound wonderful, particularly a handful of my Modern Jazz Quartet albums I only have in cassette, and hadn’t listened to for years as I no longer had a deck. I recently picked up an old Nakamichi, so can now enjoy those as well again, and quite surprised by how good some of them sound. |
CLEAN, QUIET LP’s (inexpensive manual method) I’m loving how quiet my dirty old lp’s sound. Your problem helped me out, I now have a very successful inexpensive manual cleaning method. I am getting essentially no noise out of old dirty static filled lps. I just cleaned a few NEW lp’s, to check, no noise, so goodbye mold compounds, .. If you get noise after this, something else is wrong! ...................... Listen to some music while doing this of course. Wear thin plastic gloves to protect your hands and block finger oil 1. plastic sheet to protect the table below. smooth white, so you can see any/every speck. kitchen garbage bag, or, thin plastic table cloths from the party store, something. 2. lay lp flat 3. cover lp paper label with plastic lid diameter of label, i.e. chinese soup take-out lid. 4. spray cleaning fluid on lp (my home-made mix below) 5. CRITICAL: scrub fairly aggressively: circular, back and forth a few times, with soft multi bristle brush (pre-wet with cleaning fluid for 1st lp) try an lp you don’t care about, you will find you can be more aggressive than you think. this is what really cleans deep into the grooves. 6. flip, clean other side: place carefully so paper label goes down onto dry area of plastic 7. rinse in distilled water in the record cleaning kit. CRITICAL: Distilled Water ONLY!!! spin 2x each direction, it has fine brushes for final cleaning while rinsing. 8. use the two included cloths to handle/pre-dry the lp, and put in the included drying rack. note: dry the center area of the plastic sheet where the paper label goes frequently with a separate cloth. dump distilled water after each batch of ten. rinse everything and dry between batches. ................................ Equipment 1. record cleaning kit with drying rack for 10 lps, $58. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSSQ1MN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 2. distilled water, $1.00 per gallon (check online for stock before going to the store) https://grocery.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Distilled-Water-1-Gallon/10315382?wmlspartner=wlpa&se... 3. alcohol, 91%, $3.00 https://www.target.com/p/isopropyl-alcohol-91-32oz-up-up-8482/-/A-13970972?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&... 4. wetting agent. $4.00 I use Finish, Jet Dry (dishwasher stuff) https://www.amazon.com/Finish-Jet-Dry-8-45oz-Dishwasher-Drying/dp/B0014E82II/ref=asc_df_B0014E82II/?... 5. soft multi-bristle brush, I found one in a drawer, but here’s a 3 pack, $9.00 https://smile.amazon.com/Scalp-Scrubbie-Sterile-Cradle-Sponge/dp/B005EJ7YH4/ref=sr_1_154_sspa?ascsub...= .............................. my mix, nothing scientific, a small 6 oz spray bottle (8oz, 10, doesn’t matter) 1. a few drops of wetting agent 2. 1 cap of condensed cleaning fluid that came with the kit 3. fill with alcohol. you may think it’s a pretty strong alcohol mix, but you will be rinsing right away, and, you will find, even that strong, finger oil spots will be very reduced but not fully disappear. I’m loving how quiet my dirty old lp’s sound. ................................... CLEAN STYLUS! Leave a small mirror on TT under your headshell, so you can see if the stylus is clean. Clean the stylus during if needed, and always after every listening session. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8I2JM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 my friend uses gel stuff, loves it https://coloredvinylrecords.com/blog/best-gel-type-stylus-cleaners/ ............................ Still use Anti-Static brush before each play, DRY, just a light touch needed to get any paper sleeve dust, airborne dust. |
The vinyl experience has been quite a learning curve and is indeed frustrating. A couple of years ago I purchased a Rega Planar 3 turntable and found that my digital sources sounded better. My power supply was part of the problem and so a power conditioner and an electrician installing an isolated line made an amazing difference at a cost of close to $2000. My speakers Audio Physic Step Plus, amp and integrated Line Magnetic 216A. I got a lot of enjoyment from this system, but started to crave more. As I have gone further down the rabbit hole in search of better sound, specifically more power from drums, I upgraded my turntable to a Music Hall 9.3, added a new phono stage, a Lehmann black cube, went for a moving coil cartridge. Ortofon MC Quintet Black S, into a Rogue PreAmp and the sticking point, a used amplifier with more power, an Adcom GFA 555. Yeah, I know it's old. After installation I had a couple of great weeks, but at some point noticed a fuzziness in the bass. Muddled and distorted. At first it sounded like I had something on my stylus, cleaned it with a brush and continued on. I do listen to some older recordings purchased from the resurgence of new/old record stores and so, maybe the recordings weren't too good or were dirty even though one shop does a lot of ultrasonic cleaning. I have an Okki Nokki that seems to help. So, I went through the back and forth of connecting back and forth from the Line Magnetic and Adcom, finding that the LM sounded better. Also in the loop is a JL Audio sub that is connected to the Adcom. To eliminate its influence I have turned it off during the comparison process. I contacted the person that set up the turntable for me, took a couple of pictures of the stylus that weren't so good and when my installer said to take a picture from the side of the stylus, after enlarging it with a jewelers loupe, there I saw the tiniest little piece of dust lodged to the stylus. By now I had ordered a Onzow Zerodust and between that and a brushing, got the little bugger. Problem solved, or so I thought. A week or so later, the fuzziness returned, and I have become obsessive about a clean stylus. So, a question to the forum would be...are some styli more susceptible to picking up dirt and dust? Also, to my limited knowledge, is it possible to replace a moving coil stylus? This is driving me crazy as, once again, my digital sources are sounding better than my "vinly", and my digital sources aren't necessarily that great. I'm not anxious to get a new amp only to find the problem persists. To me it seems to be in the turntable. Will check its alignment once again, but I don't think it's out of whack. To sum up my experience with vinyl, I have spent a good amount on power, isolation (table and rack), record cleaning machine, and the latest phase, stylus cleaning (cheapest of the lot). When it's good, it's great, but oh, what a commitment. Frustrating is the word. |
I've got a Nitty Gritty shelved. Too much work scrubbing and sucking. For the cost of a vacuum cleaner, Park's Puffin's SQ sounds quieter with the Magic firmware. You can even still use your Herron first if that's your thing. As it was explained to us, new records have microscopic residual release oils in the grooves. If you don't clean them ULTRASONICALLY before first play, the stylus will make permanent sonic damage. Unscrubable. If you require surface silence you'll have to pony up for the Sweet Vinyl SC-1 MINI. Or stay digital. I'm pretty happy with Shannon Parks myself. At least for my LPs that aren't available in any other HQ format. text ... |
@averyclark My TT setup is probably Mid-FI -(1200gr/ATvm540ML/Elac PPA-2 Phono) at best.I have that cartridge. It's pretty good. I bought it as a reference point to judge my three $800-$1750 (used) Deccas. Suffice to say, and I was pleasantly surprised, the Deccas were far better. My point is that you can't (respectively) judge the medium from your perspective. |