Dear M. Lavigne: I would like that you come back again not to tell us what already posted but to tell us if you have any tiny concern/worry on what we are discussing here. I hope you can share your personal opinion on the whole subject.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. Raul, my point of posting my positive experience about the MC Anna were to possibly bring some discussion of the actual merits of the performance of the Anna to the thread. obviously that was not what participants in this thread want to dwell on. i did write a post a few days ago on this situation but elected to not post it because i felt it would simply fly back at me by all the agenda holders in the thread. since you are asking for it, here it is; in the manufacturer's comment section, responding to Fremer's review, Louis Dorio, the US representative for Ortofon, basically thanks Fremer for the positive comments of which there were plenty and makes no attempt to defend or contest anything that Fremer says in the MC Anna review. Louis and Ortofon took the high road, likely the best way to go. and i respect that.
i don't want to get into any sort of excuse making for Ortofon or the MC Anna. however; i do know about the original group of 8-10 MC Anna cartridges that were brought over for CES demos and Fremer.....since i ended up purchasing one of these after it was used as a demo at CES. this first group was not intended for retail and were a 'pre-release' group. 2 or 3 of these did have some issues with the rubber material holding the stylus to the body. after this was discovered production for retail was delayed while it was investigated. 6 months later the Anna was released for retail.
my Anna from this pre-release group has been perfect. another one from this group is in a friend's system and used daily with zero issues. i don't have knowledge of the other's from this pre-release group.
lots of products have initial issues with first production runs. but if they are not high profile who would know.
Fremer could have spun his review in many different ways. he could have dealt with the 'pre-release' Anna issue in another way if he wanted to. we are left with the way he wrote it. a few years ago he annoited the Ortofon A90 'king of the hill' in a matter of speaking. now he pulls no punches with the Anna. i was surprised at how he decided to handle a problem with a 'pre-release' cartridge.
i think that it's more significant that Fremer made the choice to hit the MC Anna hard for the issues he had with it in terms of reviews in general, than what it might or might not say about the MC Anna. but that's just me and my perspective.
Ortofon surely has egg on their face for allowing any problems at all....but.....in any case; the MC Anna is a fantastic cartridge. listen to one if you can. i'm not one to typically particpate in bashing any product, manufacturer or person. it's negativity which does not enhance my enjoyment of the hobby. in my job i'm dealing with those issues all the damn time. when threads go down those roads i go listen to music. i've owned lots of cutting edge gear at first release. many times, particularly with new fresh designs, there is a manufacturers learning curve. i accept that as a price of admission to that type of product. beta testing and pre-release products can uncover things (like the Anna). those type issues should not destroy the viability of the product. even Honda occasionally has issues with new product lines despite billions of dollars of development costs. it's interesting (but not surprising) to me that no one has posted in this thread (that i recall seeing) about the rave review in Absolute Sound for the MC Anna by Jonathan Valin. also interesting that so little has been made of the great things Fremer said about the performance of the Anna. this fact tells me where people on this thread are coming from. |
Thanks for you post Mike. This is the first I have read that that initial run of 8-10 cartridges were "pre-release" samples. Fremer makes no mention of this in the review. The episode had been described to me by a friend overseas as a "recall" of the fist production batch for the US market. Ortofon did take a high road not to discuss this in the Manufacturer's Comments section, but by not doing so, perhaps they became more vulnerable to more questions.
I think the thread has taken the course set out by the original title. I do think that the merits of the MC Anna should be discussed, but perhaps it will take the initiation of a new thread to do so.
I'm interested in hearing this cartridge, but did not go to CES and am not aware of a dealer around the Boston area that has one on demo, so this thread or some other about the cartridge would be most interesting. I would love to read from owners, about how the Anna compares to other cartridges like the Atlas, MSL Gold, AirTight Supreme or XV-1t. Valin does compare it to the Clearaudio.
I don't expect much mention of the Valin review in this thread because of the title of this thread. Both reviews do describe the Anna in pretty high terms and it would be interesting to compare those opinions to others held by owners or those who have heard it in their own systems. It is a relatively heavy cartridge at 16g, and as such would not be as ideal a match for my SME V-12 arm which is ideally suited for a cartridge that weighs 12.5g enabling the counterweight to be as close to the pivot as possible. But I am intrigued by the technology of this and the A90 and think that perhaps Ortofon is leading the way toward a whole new way to construct cartridges. And we all benefit from their pursuit of the next level of performance.
Finally, I don't read this thread as a bashing of the Anna. There have been some pretty critical comments towards Ortofon, but the real focus it seems to me is on Fremer and the choices that he made in writing the review. You comment on precisely this and I think this is what this thread is mostly about. Some have commented on QC in general and in this industry in particular, and that too is a legitimate issue that many of us have experienced. |
I have personally owned 2 different era's of Ortofon cartridges and have had q/c problems with each of them. I know others that also had q/c problems with their Ortofons. I will not buy anything Ortofon |
I have owned my Anna for several mths and no problems.
I have a Benz LP s mr and while it is very good, the Anna is more open and tighter bass. Although I still like the Benz's lush sound, then Anna is very addictive.
I am running the Anna on a graham phantom, clearaudio innovation, Zesto Andros phono, CJ 16 ls, Cary v12 i, Avantgarde Duos, Synergistic ref cabling.
Now if I could just get a replacement stylus guard for the one i lost, I'd be perfectly happy. |
I don't understand why Ortofon didn't explain in their Manufacturer's Comments in Stereophile about the bad first batch and that the production problems had been corrected. This thread wouldn't have been necessary.
Did they think that if they didn't say anything that no one would notice that Fremer had to return the first two samples?
A little more honest explanation and less hype and obfuscation would do the high-end a world of good. |
I don't understand why Ortofon didn't explain in their Manufacturer's Comments in Stereophile that the first preproduction batch had some problems and that production was stopped and the problems had been corrected before any were shipped for sale to the public. This thread wouldn't have been necessary.
Did they think that if they didn't say anything that no one would notice that Fremer had to return the first two samples?
A little more honest explanation and less hype and obfuscation would do the high-end a world of good. |
Dear 'Goners,
Please note that after rereading the above post I felt the first version had some problems that made it unacceptable to be presented to the esteemed readership of this blog.
Those problems have been corrected in the second version and I will give a full refund for whatever you paid to read the first post. Please submit your original receipt (not a copy) with your request. |
Mikelavigne- Thanks for your comments, which add a valuable perspective to this discussion. I guess we always need to remember that there is a reason the call it "the bleeding edge". I also agree that these threads can suffer from too much negativity. There obviously can be manufacturing problems in pre-production. But it also clearly demonstrates the dangers of beta-testing your products in the public eye. |
I have personally owned 2 different eras of Ortofon cartridges and have never had any q/c problems with any of of them. I know others that also had never had any q/c problems with their Ortofons. I will continue buying Ortofon products as they are excellent and have never let me down. |
The thread could as well have been titled, "Tempest in a teapot".
Stringreen, I am very surprised to learn of your experience with Ortofon cartridges. Mine is the opposite. In addition, direct examination of any Ortofon cartridge at any price point typically suggests that the quality of design and construction is equal to and often better than that of other cartridges at that price point. This is not at all to say that Ortofon cartridges are always the best sounding at any price point. |
Diggory/Lewm.....that is MY history with Ortofon....as a matter of fact when I complained to them, they were very accomodating to send me a new cartridge, but it too had a bent stylus.....Even under the new plastic packaging anyone could see that the stylus was severely bent. Yuk... |
Dear Mikelavigne: Thank's for your post. I did not have any doubt on the Anna top quality performance but on its QC that for me was something weird due to first hand several experiences with Ortofon cartridges.
I posted here:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1365811842&openflup&25&4#25
and I said " don't fixed at all today " because I did not know what you posted, now is more clear the whole QC subject.
Thank's again.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
It would be interesting to hear from other Anna owners in this thread.
So far no actual Anna owner has said they had the same problem Fremer had.
If my count is correct, three Anna owners ( including me ) have responded with praise and no issues in this thread.
Weird that Fremer had two bad samples but would be really helpful to know if this was a case of lightning striking twice, or if there was/is a quality issue with the Anna.
I'm sure there are more than three Anna owners on Audiogon, so would be very interested to get their feedback. |
The performance of the cartridge, however great or not so great, has little to do with the humor and irony of the Fremer review of it and the aforementioned D'Agostino silliness...the fact that it's all taken to be very unfunny is also pretty funny. A strong strain of geekdom insecurity winds its way through this entire subject, and I for one am grateful. |
Thanks for you post Mike. This is the first I have read that that initial run of 8-10 cartridges were "pre-release" samples. Fremer makes no mention of this in the review. Apparently, Fremer (and Mike) were acting as unofficial beta-testers. No one's surprised if a beta test reveals a problem, that's the point of beta-testing. I don't understand why Ortofon didn't explain in their Manufacturer's Comments in Stereophile that the first preproduction batch had some problems and that production was stopped and the problems had been corrected before any were shipped for sale to the public. This thread wouldn't have been necessary.
Did they think that if they didn't say anything that no one would notice that Fremer had to return the first two samples?
A little more honest explanation and less hype and obfuscation would do the high-end a world of good. Indeed. If Ortofon had addressed this there would have been nothing to discuss. In fact, their diligence in halting production until the problem was solved would have enhanced their image as a quality-concious company. By ignoring the obvious they turned an opportunity into an embarassment. One of the biggest problems I run into every day in business is dealing with people who're reluctant to face difficult issues head-on. Sales and marketing types are frequent offenders. Their innate optimism causes them to sweep problems under the carpet and attempt to wish them away. That may be what happened here. |
Doug,
just to clarify, my information was that this small group of Anna's were 'pre-release' not 'beta'. these were distributed for demo purposes prior to retail release. i was not given one of these directly, i was only able to buy one after it had been used as a demo at CES. i have no idea how many Anna's were built initially, only that this small group was the only one's distributed in this part of the world. none were given to dealers for customer orders. the lack of any Anna's in customer hands makes this 'pre-release'
but it does not make them 'beta-test'.
to me a 'beta-test' is different, and normally part of development prior to the final production run.
i just don't want to give the wrong impression about my understanding. maybe it reflects more negatively that they are 'pre-release' than 'beta'....but that is my understanding. |
Doug, from the quote you used, I did not mean to imply that Mike and Fremer were beta testing these cartridges. Is there any mention of that anywhere? I'm not sure I'd assume that Ortofon was beta testing this batch of 8-10 with US customers. I would think that a company as large as Ortofon and with its resources would use different methods to test cartridges, but I may be mistaken.
Fremer's review reads like any other current production component review. There is no mention of beta testing or pre release in the review itself. I think Fremer got his three review samples from Ortofon directly. Also, it seems that Mike bought his Anna as a show-demo and that Fremer's review sample was not from this initial 8-10 US batch. It would be interesting to know how many of the 8-10 had problems and if this batch was produced before or after Fremer's three samples.
I agree that Ortofon should have just addressed this openly, honestly and early. Assuming the Anna sounds as wonderful as Mike describes, there will surely be many more sold with positive user reviews in the future. |
Garcia - you bozo. Nobody's listening to you, so go back to watching porn :-) |
Downunder...why the hostility? Why so sensitive? Did you give too much of your loading ramp earnings to Dan D'Agostino? Why so much weirdly obsessive and clearly retentive sexually pithy retorts? Listen...many insecure people get testy when confused about themselves and can't have any fun...it's OK...we're gonna help you all we can. |
Mike (and Peter),
I did say "unofficial" beta testers. Sorry if the suggestion was a stretch... a thorn is a spike is a thistle!
In any event, we're in agreement that Ortofon's blithely ignoring the Q/C issues Fremer described didn't reflect well on their public relations skills. Still, if the issues have been resolved as you described then it's water over the dam. New customers can base their buying decision on other factors, including the fine reviews given by you and Fremer.
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Quite indicative:
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=19527#19527 |
I just happened upon these comments. They are so absurd I don't know where to start. Ortofon made a mistake. Has anyone here ever made a mistake? I should have known the answer, which is "no", we are all perfect. The mistake was an issue with the new damper material and adhesive that did not immediately show itself and they had no reason to suspect the problem would occur so having finished the project, they sent me one of the first samples and only then was the problem discovered. Probably I should have just shut up about all of this and just reviewed the third sample because it's clear that some of you can't properly process information you're given. This thread is utterly disappointing and stupidly cranky.
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Right on.
-- Off topic -- Did you ever follow up with a listening session of those records you cleaned with that film stuff on AP? I watch the whole video of the cleaning but no test to see how it did? |
