I didn’t try them. Once i discovered EVP footers from AV Roomservice, I’ve added these to my components. They’re not cheap, $120 apiece.
So I cheaped-out and put Herbies Tall Tenderfeet under my 2-box PC.
Footers Under Power Conditioners?
I own a Audioquest 7000 and I am wonderin’ if a set of Critical Mass footers would provide any benefit?
They are a little expensive to just try, so, has anyone had experience with this combination?
ozzy
They are a little expensive to just try, so, has anyone had experience with this combination?
ozzy
62 responses Add your response
@lowrider57 How was the experience with IsoAcoustics Orea? |
Yeah @tweak1, I have three sets of MD Springs: two sets of the smaller, one set of the big ones. I got them for use where I don’t have room for the taller Townshend Audio Seismic Pods, which I have been using for a couple of years now: under two turntables, phono and line stages, power amp, and loudspeakers (if anyone has a set of the discontinued Model AA, I want ’em). I was touting the Pods for quite awhile here on Audiogon (do a search through older threads if you want), but most were secure in the "knowledge" that their BDR or DH Cones were the only way to go, so I gave up. Both are good, the Townshend more sophisticated (and expensive). Plus, the Pods provide leveling, great for turntables and digital players. I bought my MD’s from Geoff Kait when he was listing them here on Audiogon, the Pods from John @ Townshend Audio (though I bought all mine when he was selling on ebay as Select-HiFi). John is related to Max Townshend, as is a real swell fella to deal with. |
@ozzy From what I've read, the Niagara is the new gold standard in PCs. I'm committed to my Core Power stack financially and for the DC blocker which I need in my system. I should add I'm happy with the results. I'm going to give the Isoacoustic orea a try based on many positive comments on the forum. They can also support heavy weight. |
lowrider57, The CM footers under the conditioner are keepers. Yes, they cost more than others but once you have them they will support and improve any future upgraded conditioners. Now, with that being stated, I have owned both the combo you describe and I am sorry to say that the Niagara 7000 is in a different league from the Core products. So, probably better to get the Niagara before spending money on the footers. ozzy |
@ozzy Have you noticed any additional improvement in the Niagara now that the CM's have settled in? I'm still looking for something to go under my conditioner. I now have a Core Power EquiCore and DeepCore stack, about 80 lbs. I still believe the right footer will benefit the sound of a power conditioner. But, the CM are beyond my budget. |
@ozzy I didn't notice that. I have them under my preamp chassis. It uses an EI transformer and is very heavy on one corner. I spoke to the manufacturer and he said to place the EVP's so that all three are evenly compressed. He asked me for a photo and suggested better positioning. So, I have 2 of them close to the transformer and one on the lightweight side of the pre. I couldn't use traditional positioning but it really sounds great. My EquiCore is on the floor so I may need to use the foam covered EVP's so that they grip the PC. |
aubreybobb, To put the Critical Mass break in in perspective... I added one set under my Carver tube mono blocks. And then about a month later I added another set under the second mono block. When I added the second set I noticed that the soundstage image moved in the direction of the Critical Mass footers from the original placement. Sure enough, about a couple weeks later the left channel started to come into its own and the soundstage became complete. These footers do have a strange break in. I'm not sure if all conditioners benefit from after market footers, but my guess would be they do, I suppose it really depends on the power conditioner and the footers. But for all you tweakers out there, it's worth a try. ozzy |
I use Herbies square dots under mine because I had put the Panamax back on the 1.5" butcher block rack too soon after sealing it with 50/50 Tung oil and Mineral Oil and the feet stuck to the surface. The feet broke when I levered it off so I needed new feet. I believed it couldn't but possibly make a difference with my moderate setup but to my confusion it offered a slight increase in clarity/brightness. Weird. |
Well I just received and immediately installed the Critical Mass Footers 2 1.0 version underneath the Niagara 7000. And though I know it will take much time to break in (or adjust), at this moment, I am clearly hearing better separation of the instruments within the soundstage. So, though I am expecting things to improve further in the next few weeks with additional settling time, I can honestly conclude that the Audioquest Niagara 7000 does improve considerably with using the Critical Mass footers. ozzy |
@facten , You're welcome. If you find the Les Davis pads too expensive, you might want to try some constrained layer damping material from a supply house. It could be that Les Davis contracts with one of them and has them made to his specs with logo attached. Also, I ended up with using just one pad per end on my Niagara 1200 as it stands on it's side. I thought 2 were great until I tried just one layer which gave me the best results. Each additional layer only lessened the highs, air and detail. All the best, Nonoise |
My Niagara 1200 sits behind my couch on the floor, wall to wall carpet. That is where it will remain. Suffice to say I think it is stupid to think you could possibly perceive whether it is supported by spikes or hemispheres or cones or whatever....I'll go with expectation bias. It's a power conditioner, nothing more. Now, a turntable or cd player? Well then, yes I believe you should spend time getting those isolated/supported properly.Do you think it's stupid that it came with footers already in place as well as more to be used in case you were to place it on its side? Do you think it's stupid to believe it is immune from vibrations? Do you think it's stupid to be so intellectually lazy as to fall back on the expectation bias meme? All the best, Nonoise |
Again, I say the Niagara 7000 is a different animal when it comes to power conditioning. It has some very large isolation transformers. That is why I think the Critical Mass footers could help. I don’t know for sure, that is why I asked the question. Soon, I will have them to try. But as aubreybobb stated and I have found that the Critical Mass footers go through a weird break in. ozzy |
My Niagara 1200 sits behind my couch on the floor, wall to wall carpet. That is where it will remain. Suffice to say I think it is stupid to think you could possibly perceive whether it is supported by spikes or hemispheres or cones or whatever....I'll go with expectation bias. It's a power conditioner, nothing more. Now, a turntable or cd player? Well then, yes I believe you should spend time getting those isolated/supported properly. |
@facten , I got them from someone stateside who no longer sells them. What I did find was Bespoke Audio Group: bespokeaudiogroup@outlook.com You used to be able to get them on amazon. I don't think they'll sell direct as long as there's someone stateside representing their product. https://www.lesdavisaudio.com.au/products-meme It looks like he's been very busy since when I got my 3D2, which were circular and not the squares he now sells. He's got three more products as well. All the best, Nonoise |
I found the perfect solution for my needs. Before buying anything else, I experimented with what I had on hand and that included some really old Audioquest squishy footers, the kind you can literally ball up in your hand using a tight grip. You know, the ones that leave that messy residue wherever they're placed. It wasn't half as bad as the Herbie's extra firm squares but still it fogged the highs and surrounding air. Next up were some Les Davis constricted layer damping pads, which are about as thin as two sheets of paper. Using three at each end of the Niagara 1200 (the pads are wide enough to support the width of the 1200) brought about a wonderful increase of body in everything, especial the bass. Not a hint of texture or detail was lost at the expense of some really thickened bass which was very tactile in feel. Vocals took on a level of realism making it all the more corporal. Think mouth, throat and chest. Highs were more fleshed out as well but I thought it could use a bit more air and lightness. Taking one pad out on each end was the ticket. No loss of body with an increase in air, decay and extension. It seems the light weight of the 1200 (just over 15 lbs) didn't take to the type of footer that a much heavier item would need. I had a similar experience with my OPPO 103 when I tried the Isoacoustic Oreas as footers: it just killed the highs and bloated the mids and bass. Going with the Les Davis pads under the footers solved that as well, and the OPPO only weighs about 11lbs., so there's something relatable here. All the best, Nonoise |
There has been some very good and interesting comments on this subject and I thank you. I think the Niagara 7000 is a different animal than many power conditioners because of the huge transformers inside. When you place your ear close to it you can actually hear it hum. I went ahead and ordered a set (4) of the Critical Mass 1.0 footers for the conditioner. The funny thing about these footers, they go through a weird break in stage. I know, hard to believe, footers breaking in. But, with my other equipment they first sounded just ok, then bad, horrible, and then about 10 days later glorious! So, if they do improve sound quality underneath the Niagara, I wonder if these too will go through the same break in phenomenon. ozzy |
The footer combination of EVP’s and a block of myrtle wood (weird or unconventional but I voiced to that through trials or many types) under my Curl and Bybee designed Wells Looking Glass filter is crucial to my systems voicing/balance. The EVP’s didn’t work for me under active gear but they are VERY effective. So effective that it can be to much a good thing. |
Yes - I think you should. My system is now finally fully set up on CS 2 footers after a year and a half, except for plastic base items and loudspeakers. I will be adding the speaker footers as soon as funds allow. The conditioner is a custom one and the footers on it were installed last. That was a mistake...I should have done those first. I found equal improvements on DC power supplies. Rather more than on the corresponding equipment. What I takeaway from this experience is that power improvement is the biggest bang for the buck for me. By the way I used the Ansuz darkZ DTC earlier - 3-4 times the price. No comparison. In my system replacing them with the CS2 was a substantial upgrade. Best wishes |
Fellow Niagra 7000 user here - I agree it produces a more dynamic sound with my amplfier than straight into a wall socket. I do have footers under my Niagra - Ansuz Darkz DTC. They are expensive but make a difference. You can probably find them second hand now. If you do go down the Ansuz route do not go for anything less than D-TC in the range - some of the lesser models sound much less good. |
From what I've read, something as soft as a Tenderfoot would tilt the sound far too downwards so maybe these would do something less offensive.@nonoise I've replaced all the Tenderfeet in my system with other types of isolation/vibration devices. I can now hear that the Herbies dont articulate the midbass and they soften the bass attack. I'm very impressed with the AV Roomservice EVP's under my preamp. The presentation is now neutral with tight bass. Like Ozzy, I'd like to find new footers for my 60lb. power conditioner. |
Reading this thread, I thought that this was a bit off the charts, even for me. Well, I tried something of Herbie's that he long longer makes: a 1,1/4" square that is 1/4" thick and harder than his Tenderfoots. I used them under my Niagara 1200 (no transformer), placed on a bamboo cutting board, which is how I originally had it, with nothing in between. From what I've read, something as soft as a Tenderfoot would tilt the sound far too downwards so maybe these would do something less offensive. They did change the sound by fogging up the highs some and putting more emphasis on the mids and bass. I listened intently for over an hour with a few CDs and went back to my normal set up using no kind of footer, which sounded best, between the two set ups, but now I have some doubts as to just what would sound best overall. Never thought this would happen. All the best, Nonoise |
Well as I stated, I was really surprised at the performance improvement with my other equipment with the Critical Mass footers. It's hard to put a percentage on it, but I would say, it greatly enhanced my sonic pleasure. 0-100. If you have an opportunity to try them, you will hear what I mean...and, you will buy them. ozzy |
lowrider57, The Audioquest Niagara is sitting at the bottom of a Stand Design rack. This rack not only has spikes at the floor (that I have Herbies footers underneath) but there are also spikes underneath each shelve. Yes, I have the Iso-Acoustics GAI 1's underneath my speakers. The Critical Mass footers really are amazing though, I have them underneath my Lumin X1 and Carver M350 tube amps. They are expensive, but they really do perform well in these places. Just not sure about under a power conditioner. ozzy |