Fairly new to streaming. Where to start?

I think you would be surprised by how nice the Bluesound Node 2i sounds.  I stream Tidal and I find MQA to have a noticeable difference in sound stage and presence.  The dealer talked me into adding a ProJect S2 DAC to the Bluesound connected with an Audioquest Carbon COAX cable.  However, I preferred the Bluesound by itself.  When you add a DAC, you can only get one unfold of MQA.  Again, I liked MQA better than adding a DAC.  I had to sell the DAC and Coax for half of what I paid. I wonder if you can hear a significant difference in sound quality after purchasing a $3,000 streamer?  The dealer I purchased my REL subwoofers recommended I go with a BelCanto Streamer for three times the cost.  Problem is finding a dealer who will allow you to take both home to try on your home system for 24 hours.  I think most would be reluctant because they don't want you to know how good the Bluesound sounds like for the money.  Everyone in this group does not like MQA and I wonder why I do?  I guess if you spend more, it just must sound better.

Forgot to mention.  Hard wire CAT6.  Eliminates wireless streaming issues.  However, depends how far source is from you system.

@larry5729



Thanks. If I go with the vault I'll have to hard wire it since it doesn't do wireless. My router is about 50 feet from the stereo. So, I'm go into have to run a wire under the house OR get a Wifi range extender. been doing some reading on them today. I would like to bring my router closer to the central part of the house. I have a good router only a few years old. It does ac wireless. 

@artemus_5 I actually just recently helped someone with this same question.

My advice is to consider the DAC first, because that's going to have the biggest influence on the sound character and maybe you'll like how the DAC in a network streaming DAC sounds, but maybe you won't like it as much as some other standalone DAC.

Likewise, the software and convenience of the network streamer will play a big part in how much you enjoy listening to music. You will also want to consider whether or not you need support for services like Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify, etc.

If you end up liking the DAC in a network streaming DAC, and you like the software and hardware of the same network streaming DAC, you're good to go. But otherwise separate units gives you more flexibility as I think you've also concluded.

Some other brands you may want to consider are Lumin, Bryston, Trinnov, and Devialet.

artemus_5 Looked at your system. Very nice!


If you get a LUMEN T2 the sound will be close (maybe better) to your beloved vinyl. Yes it’s double your stated budget but here’s a case of getting what you pay for. The top PS audio unit also excellent. No need for more IMO.


I’m a happy Qobuz camper but Tidal’s great too. I have tested a CD against a high res streaming version of the same track and what a real difference. Night and day better. No. Richer and more enveloping? Heck yes. Hard to go back. You bet. 

Streaming is easy and there’s a plethora of what ever your audio taste are. HUGE!

I would recommend separate streamer and DAC. 

Regarding streamer I would first of all select one, where your favourite streaming services is embedded (Tidal, Spotify, etc). Secondly, I would vouch for using Roon. I enjoy the music metadata and music management capability. Personally, I am on my 2nd streamer and is using the Innuos Mini and that is great. 

For DAC a initial consideration is whether it is is MQA-enabled or not. Secondly, pending your budget, you could consider a FPGA-based DAC vs chip-based. Currently, I have the RME ADI-2 DAC and that works very well with the Innuos. 

Both sell for around 1k €. 

Gentlemen, many thanks again for the help/. One clarification I have.

I will NOT be using the services of a streaming service, IE Qobuz, etc. I have been collecting FLAC & Apple Lossless for 10 or more years. I probably have at least 1TB in files now .Plus I'll be ripping more Cd's of which I probably have 2k. Then there are 4k albums. I have plenty of music . So I see no need of a subscription to music. And I have no desire at this time to have a Roon subscription. So, in effect I will only be streaming my own library, which is why the Vault looks tempting. IF i could hook up  my computer to my stereo system and have it sound good, that's all I would need for now. But we know that's not the way to get good sound. Hope I haven't rambled too much . again thanks

If you already have a bunch of digital music and a way to continue ripping CD's, then the Vault would be redundant.  All you really need is the Node 2i.  As long as your music is available on a shared drive on your network, the Node 2i can access it.

@big_greg




Thanks   I figured I can rip the cd's I need to on my computer. Theres quite a few but I have 1TB of music already ripped. Now for another question
I've read somewhere that all streamers are not equal in their ability to hand over the 1's & 0's over to the dac. I don't know if this is correct though. What is the general consensus on that? Do you know? Thanks

Artemis, just get JRiver for your laptop and connect to a good USB DAC like a used Benchmark.  It will sound very good and you can start your streaming journey from there.

Also, if you go to Radio Paradise and set your stream to FLAC, you'll be surprised how good it sounds...with four streams to choose from and the ability to skip to next song.  Regardless of how big your CD collection is, Radio Paradise will greatly expand the musical landscape unless you just want to stay in classical or jazz content.  Also, you can run a remote desktop  from a tablet to you laptop and be awfully close to the user interface of dedicated streamers. 

Yes, dedicated streamers and reclockers can make an improvement,  but what I described isn't shabby and gets you great sound as a cost-effective baseline.

You won't get a consensus on the importance of the streamer. IMO the DAC matters more but in your case you're also dealing with a server could be a computer, NAS, or a streamer/ server like the vault. Just have your music shared and the Node2i can access it, the thing with the Node2i is the DAC is the weakest part of it, the app  interface and streaming capability is pretty good. 

@artemus_5I have not been able to a/b them directly and am going on others comments. However this weekend I listened to an Innuous Zen Mk3 playing on a much more expensive system than mine and I thought OK, but it not that much better. It did not knock my socks off and it was streaming Tidal while I listen to Spotify. I have a/b'ed the internal DAC of the Yamaha with a Topping D50s DAC playing externally on the Yamaha and there is not a huge difference there either.Recently I bought some hi res recordings from Channel Classics and Blue Coast. I guess I've begun to appreciate that the quality of the recording is more important than the player. That is not to say I think you can't do better than a Yamaha wxc-50, not at all. Just that it is a pretty good entry point that can take you a good distance. The Musicast software that comes with it is very versatile and once set up, pretty easy to use with almost any source you could want. Here is a thoughtful review of it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovrS88tddmo

@electroslacker  @djones51


Here's what I am trying to decide. I have a hifi shop here in town who services  my equipment when needed. They are good & honest and been around for a long time. I've known them for a long time as well. They have been trying to sell me a Yamaha WXC-50. It gets good marks from Hans Beekhuyzen who reviewed it as well as others. Just a bit below Node 2i in sound quality.  I have heard is and it sounded good.   I will need to upgrade the DAC for the Yamaha or the Node 2i. But the Yamaha is $200 cheaper. They also  suggest JRiver ($60). So the question...will the Yamaha send the 1's & 0's to the DAC as good as the Node 2i? I haven't bought anything from them in a while  and I need some more equipment to be serviced which would keep me on their good side (if that makes sense)
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022WXC50DS/Yamaha-WXC-50.html?awcp=&awcr=309983056457&awdv=c&awkw=%2byamaha+%2bwxc+%2b50&awmt=b&awnw=g&awug=9013327&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6sHzBRCbARIsAF8FMpWdUmwUmixMneDZl3N_G3KUNGjnbGnJhW8_-FZRUDpwFFoI_GDgaaYaAgSVEALw_wcB

IMO yes the Yamaha would work as well as the Node2i it might have a better dac as well. I am not familiar with the interface you would use so I can't comment on that but I imagine it's  easy enough to learn. 

Artemis, I agree with DJones, although I have no personal experience with either unit. The Yamaha seems a lot for a little, and a clever product. I can get caught up in exotic USB cables, but that aside, I bet the Yamaha with a nice DAC would sound great.  I didn’t see Qobuz listed as supported by Yamaha. I like Qobuz for $12/month, but sounds like that’s not an issue for you now. I’d try to listen to all the assembled pieces at the dealer if possible. Best of luck to you. 

Thanks guys. I’m getting tired of the hunt and the research My brains need a rest.
 
This thread has been a real eye opener which has helped me to understand more. Great bunch here. Thanks

Just get a musical fidelity vdac 90 and call it a day for $299. It's a borderline class A component in Stereophile magazine and I agree with them that it is a wonderful peace of equipment for not very much and can rival many dacs 3 times its price. Yea, so it cannot play the highest of resolutions, who cares...at some point you have to say what is the point. In the end, at least to my ears, the vdac 90 sounds fantastic with all kinds of music. The real gold is in vinyl playback...I'm an analog guy and always will be...so to spend any more than what I did on the MF is not rational to me. Jmo

artemus_5

What software do you use to rip? Mac or Windows?

 

@witswWindows. Son tried for years to get me into mac, thus the M4a files for Ipod. Hated Itunes. It took up every resource on my PC. I couldn’t run anything else with it running and I am a RAM man (Always more RAM)


@audioguy85

I’ve been playing records for 60 yrs. I have 4k and a very nice table et al. I have a pretty nice cdp, Theta Miles which, though not as good as the TT, is a good player. You have to do your research, which is why we both are here. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll look at it the Vdac. Sho... I may even start with that and a laptop. But I know I need to make a move soon. I’ll keep you guys updated

@artemus_5 I'm not familiar with the Yamaha unit you mentioned.  How's the interface?  One of the Bluesound's best features is its app.  Keep that in mind when making your decision.

As to your question about "better 1's and 0's", I've yet to see a definitive answer about that.  What I can tell you is that I went from a Bluesound Node 2 paired with an Auralic Vega DAC (which was $3500 when new) to a TEAC NT-505 streamer/DAC and it sounds better than the Node 2 / Vega combo did. 

I also tried my Node 2 with a Mytek Liberty DAC and the DAC in my Sony TA-ZH1ES headphone amp (which is very good).  They all improved the sound of the Node 2, but none of them sounded as good as the TEAC all-in-one device.

My thinking is that the streamer does matter, as it seems everything matters in the signal chain, but no way I can prove that.  I have no way of testing the streamer in the NT-505 with an external DAC.

is this information site respectable?

http://soundexpert.org/home;jsessionid=E4845C94540B5003F5EBCB0502860BB1

a better site for learning?

@big_greg.


I’ve been as big a skeptic as anyone about audio voodoo and extraordinary claims. Then one day I put my $$$ down ($180 iirc) on an Oyaide power outlet. I felt stupid for spending the $$$. But it proved its worth. I have DIY tweaks which made a Big difference in my CDP. So, I don’t discount much anymore. This is why I tried to go above even the Node 2i because my system is at a very good place. But I know my cdp is getting old and the new trend is streaming. What I’m learning is the cost is very high at the time, to get equal sound to what I have now. Then yesterday I encountered the thread where CDP were said by many to be superior to streaming. I suspect the tech has finally able to make a cdp capable of very high def playback. But the market has moved away from that media. Who knows? Vinyl returned. With streaming, apparently unless you spend the $10k on the necessary equipment. This is a new market with everyone trying to show the best way and have their ways adopted. It always happens with new media. It will come soon.

@elliottbnewcombjr I am not familiar with the site so can’t answer about their reputation. Is there a particular article that you are referring? I will check it out. Thanks.

“I suspect the tech has finally able to make a cdp capable of very high def playback. But the market has moved away from that media. Who knows? Vinyl returned. With streaming, apparently unless you spend the $10k on the necessary equipment. This is a new market with everyone trying to show the best way and have their ways adopted. It always happens with new media. It will come soon.”

@artemus_5,

I would like to further clarify....

1. Streaming is now on par with CD playback. Just like a good CD playback requires decent quality player, same applies to a streaming player.

2. Unless you spend $10K....Streaming is not any different than CDP or Vinyl. For quality playback, it requires careful consideration, just like Vinyl or CDP if you’re striving for high quality playback. There are some folks here who uses a $200 CD player and have the nerve to criticize the format because it’s not nearly as good as their Vinyl setup. Go figure!

3. It will come soon....IMO, it’s already here and thriving. With Tidal and Qobuz, you can enjoy high resolution streaming as long as you choose the right equipment. Not to mention, access to the library of artists you may not even had the opportunity to hear yet.

As many of us pointed out, you can get a Vault 2i (if you wish to rip your CD’s) or Node 2i as a start up device and add a DAC later on. Even if you don’t want to stream, you can start enjoying your ripped files through Node 2i without the hassles associated with a laptop. I would not bring a laptop as a source in your system unless you are ready to eliminate or filter the ‘noise’ on the USB output.

@lalitk 

 

As many of us pointed out, you can get a Vault 2i (if you wish to rip your CD’s) or Node 2i as a start up device and add a DAC later on.

I am still on that track. As I have said I am getting tired from the research and have been taking steroids since Sat. So my mind is full and going 200 mph...at least. Plus my tendency is to overthink (Which you have been very helpful to overcome) One question. I've read that the caching process seems to be a problem for digital play. SSID is preferred over std HD. This seems to make a case for a SSiD NAS of some kind for playback. Is that a good  reason to buy the Vault over the Node? If i stream my catalog to the node, it will still be playing from the hard drive in essence. Hmm wonder if the HD's in the Vault are SSiD? Any thoughts?
BTW I messaged the guy with the Vault but have never heard back from him. I can still get the Vault 2i for $815 (Factory refurb) I'll get there. Thanks for your info. 

My music files are on a 7200 RPM spinning drive in an external enclosure that I share on my network.  I have not had any issues with lag or anything else when streaming to my Node 2.  And I'm sending files over my wireless network, the connection is not hard-wired.  

I don't doubt that having it hard wired and connected directly to the streamer might have some benefit, but the DAC is probably the weakest link in the chain if you're going with a Bluesound product, not the hard drive.

The current school of thought is that ssd should be better than hdd but....
Whether any of us mere mortals could hear that difference is another question entirely.
Guess I am spoiled though as my N100 uses a small ssd to cache the music from the hdd so I have best of both worlds.

The bluesound products, vault, vault2, vault2i all use a hdd although.....
if you were really concerned over the ssd vs hdd you can attach a local usb drive to the vault and it will read it just like a NAS. This then could be a ssd so you have options with the vault variants for sure.

@uberwaltz


I got this idea from Aurender CEO in a interview. He does not let hdd do the playing. OK for storage, but hdd hands off to SSiD for play. Thus the question as to whether the vault has ssid and therefore a better player?

https://www.audiostream.com/content/tips-setting-audiophile-nas-system-aurender-john-paul-lizars

At this point I’ve spent too much time reading and digesting. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...(-: ...and I’m wound tight on these steroids (for my back). One more day left


@big_greg.   

I hear ya. I overthink things. Maybe after I can get off this hunt I'll get centered up. Then too, it comes  down to that thought that everything matters. But hey, only one more day of these steroids!!! Yeah

@artemus_5 Perhaps I didn't make my point clear... if you want to get the best sound quality, consider something other than the Bluesound line.  Investing in something with a better DAC will have more of an impact on sound quality than whether the files are stored on a spinning hard drive or a SSD.  Most of my digital listening is through streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal, where files are quite possibly not even on the same continent and unlikely to be stored on SSD in their server farms.  Sound quality is excellent, and more so since I replaced my Bluesound with a better streamer (the TEAC NT-505). 

In other words, it's unlikely to make much difference if the Vault has a spinning hard drive or an SSD.   I doubt it's a SSD, or they wouldn't say "ultra-quiet" 2TB hard-drive.

Definitely a HDD in the vault variants.

And yes Artemus that's exactly what I was referring to with my Aurender n100.
It caches the HDD files to it's SSD and then the HDD goes silent.
But as I say, can we really hear that difference?
As Greg rightly says Qobuz hires streaming sounds spectacular and that certainly is not on a local SSD so......

@lalitk

Not 10K. Two excellent sreramers I already mentioned are half that and all that. 

4.5K for a LUMIN T2 with a built in DAC (4.8K with added Sboooster external power supply) or the  PS audio DirectStream DAC on sale this month for 4.8K. 

artemus_5
No need for a stand alone DAC with these streamers unless a CD player is used and you want to filter that too. If you never wanted to pass the CD signal into a DAC then ok. 

All I use now is the streamer and a LUMIN server that has ripped FLAC files on it. A true KISS setup.  About 1/3 of all files are ultra high res. Oh man. Wow. 

Ironically “Speak no Evil” by Wayne Shorter is on now. I use Qobuz. No more pandora. Zilch. 

This stranger on the internet would urge you to rethink your direction. I went from sourced off the computer to the current set up. Let me just say BIG difference. To those who think otherwise I’d say I never knew until hearing for myself what you discount. I’m not talking about ultra expensive stuff.  Would if I could. Dot dot dot. 

@wsitsw

All I use now is the streamer and a LUMIN server that has ripped FLAC files on it.

I believe one of my problems is the terminology. Please define streamer and server as used in the sentence?

FWIW I will only be playing files from my Hard Drive. I will be using no streaming services ie Qobuz. Yet I have been referring to the playing my Flac files from the hard drive as "Streaming" them. IOW the whole process is streaming (I thought) But I think that must not be how everyone else is using the term "streaming"

The Vault is a steamer/ server it has software that connects to a  network and allows you pass the music on to your dac or preamp and also holds and manages the physical media on a hard drive. A streamer like the Node2i does the first part but doesn't hold the physical media but connects to a server that does. A server is basically something that holds data on physical media and allows devices to access it. Could be as simple as a NAS or your computer to a complete " farm " of hardware. Servers will typically run software to manage the data and the interfaces. These devices that have internal hard drives are really both a server and streamer and could also have the dac. If that isn't complicated enough some streamers will allow you to connect a thumb drive or hard drive by USB directly and play from that. 

Artemus
To put it simply
I think majority of members here who refer to streaming really mean accessing an online music service over the internet.
Like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify etc.

Technically you are still " streaming" music from your hard drive to your DAC of choice but it is probably confusing some members just with the terminology.

I think the Yamaha you were looking at will allow direct connection through USB so you could just use an external HDD or SSD in an enclosure attached to it. As far as how any of these sound I make no recommendation other than to say I had a Node2i and with an external dac it sounded good to me. I have a NAD C658 now and it sounds good to me as well it uses the same bluOS app. 

Streaming is digital music from the internet or a hard drive played with a “streamer”, computer or even phone. Thus the need/want to use a DAC. 

Better said a streamer is a network music player. 

So you have the steamer that streams music files. There’s a trout, Kilgore. 

The streamer I use also recognises a hard drive on my home network. So I’m sourcing music files from the hard drive or internet. 

Most stand alone streamers work with many different software interfaces as well as their own. Thus the verbiage that XYZ streamer works with this or that software or music service. 


Like any thing in this realm the more bandwidth and file size/depth the better the sound. 

Clear as mud?


I often will explore in my given tastes artists/albums I don’t know and save some new and wonderful something I don’t or didn’t know of or listen to a re-released High res album like John Coltrane’s “Giant Steps”. That’s what high res streaming Is all about. Immeasurably worth the expense to me. Haven’t purchased any more CD’s.  The music services have so much to offer. 


Pardon typos I’m on the phone. 

Hi, I’m new to streaming as well, but I’ve got a solution that has worked out pretty nicely. I chose Qobuz for their hi-res-only library (esp. good if you like jazz and classical). I stream it wireless from my desktop/router to a Bluesound Node 2i, then bypass its dac and into my Schiit Yggy GS model, and out to my analog stereo system wired with vintage Kef 104/2 speakers. I think the sound is amazing. Just the Node and Yggy GS will put you a little over your $2k limit, so to stay within it, look at the Gumby, which is getting nice reviews and costs half as much as the Yggy GS. The Qobuz app works well enough from my phone, but I may upgrade to Roon on an ipad for a nicer experience, when I get around to it. Good luck!

Lumin T2 review:

https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/lumin-t2-network-player-review

@uberwaltz

I think majority of members here who refer to streaming really mean accessing an online music service over the internet.
Like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify etc.

I believe you are right. I've been in the analog realm for so long I don't know the terms which are generally used by the streaming people. Add to that That my initial thoughts have been transformed . Its a form of Audiophile culture shock. I get the hang of it though. 

fuzztone

you are right, I'm not serious about streaming in my music system. hooked it up, easy, played Pandora for Donna, left the room, never tried it again, forgot about it, disconnected it, happy that no more thought about it is needed. 

I was asking what the logical steps were IF someone wanted to move up from such a simple setup, I thought the answers would be good for others following the thread as well as my curiosity.

@big_greg

if you want to get the best sound quality, consider something other than the Bluesound line. Investing in something with a better DAC will have more of an impact on sound quality than whether the files are stored on a spinning hard drive or a SSD.

Yes. That was my initial thought. But the equip I had scouted were Dacs only. That was my misunderstanding because the terminology is not clear to me.So the budget comes into play about which streamer or player to start with. So far has been suggested by a lot of people. I already know I won’t stop with the Bluesound Dac. I’m looking towards a good r2r dac or maybe the Benchmark or something similar. That’s where I am now. Just trying to get started on the right foot. It does look like the Aurender is ahead of the game. But whatever the case, I believe its going to cost more than I had budgeted. But that’s nothing new (-:

BTW Thanks for the heads up on the Teac. 

The TEAC NT-505 is both a streamer and DAC and was a noticeable improvement over my Bluesound Node 2.  It also allows me to stream files from my network.  I paid less than $2K.  The Lumin D2 is the other one I'd look at around your budget.  Retail is $2300 for the Lumin.

I'm finding this discussion really interesting because I too am considering upgrades to the digital side of my system.

Currently, I just have an old iPhone as my "streamer". The iPhone's Thunderbolt USB is plugged into a Shiit BiFrost Multibit DAC.

What am I missing from streaming from the iPhone that I would get through a streamer? What digital component would you upgrade next? 

@ big_greg

Those 2 have risen to the top of the list. I just learned I don’t need the vault. I have a new PC. Ripping to Flac is simple in Win 10. So to celebrate my new learnin’ I’m gonna buy a new set of power tubes for my amp. This is the last day of steroids so I may get some brain cells back...or at least be able to focus.

@whatsthatbuzz

First thing is your files. Using apple (Mac) you are limited to apple lossless. NO Mp3. I also believe that a streamer/server/player would be preferable to a phone. I’m not totally sure of that. But wireless is going to have some part of the problem. Then again, that too is debatable. The Node 2i is popular.I’m not the sharpest knife in this drawer but I have been in the audiophile community for a long time and I know that lossless codec is a must.  And I have used digital music files since Napster.  Others may chime in with more help. Good luck

@ artemus_5

sorry to piggyback on your post, but seems like you had good contributors...

I am, unlike you, looking to connect to Spotify and Tidal. I don't understand why a streamer would provide better sound than an iPhone if I am just using internet streaming services, and connecting the iPhone to a DAC..?

@whatsthatbuzz

I don’t understand why a streamer would provide better sound than an iPhone

Just like all phones are not equal, all streamers are not equal. I’m an old guy and I HATE these little phones. More precisely I hate that people think these are computers when they are only half (F)assed computers. They are doing 27 different jobs and none of them well IMO. They are great as a portable device. I use one if I’m out and about and need to use the net. But at home for real surfing, I would never consider using the phone Partially cause I have poor vision. I’m not sure that a phone can even play lossless music. Pretty sure mine cant. But there too, paying for a music subscription is foreign to me. But I guess its great fr those who have no music library. If music quality means nothing then a phone will do. But if you want good hi def you will need more I think. There again, there are other younger people who understand the younger culture priorities better than I do. Someone may explain it better. And then the phone may be all you want.

WOW Yeah you didn’t ask for that rant did ya? Pay no attention. I’m just come out from taking steroid for a week and irritation comes far too easy. Nothing personal (-:

Let me explain my problem with the phone more clearly. It does a lot of tasks. Its a great invention. However, I've always found that anything which does a lot of thing have to have compromises built in to allow that. Therefore they don't do anything particularly. Its that way with every one that I have encountered. The phone simply does not have the size to isolate the necessary items that will interfere with each other. Therefore you have noise which interferes with the signal most often. It may not show as outright noise to the end user. But it will show up on a scope and when A-B'd against a product which does have proper isolation it will show that it is far inferior. Hope that helps.

Whatsthatbuzz is your phone passing high resolution to the dac? At least CD quality? If so you might not notice a huge improvement by going with an inexpensive streamer. Seems like in streaming improvement is in baby steps unless you want to spend a lot of $$$. But even then I can’t say for sure I never had a 5 figure streamer.

I got this idea from Aurender CEO in a interview. He does not let hdd do the playing. OK for storage, but hdd hands off to SSiD for play. Thus the question as to whether the vault has ssid and therefore a better player?

I think this level of details are less important in low end or mid end equipment. Try something and see if you like the sound regardsless of the tech inside. Read what others like, like the Node 2i.

If you are only gonna play ripped music a simple RaspberryPi with a dac should work great. You can buy them with built-in dac-cards or with inteface cards to connect to an external dac (I use this right now).

If you can tinkle a bit with it yourself you can have a solution for less than $200. If you prefer to buy pre-built solutions they cost somewhere around $500 and up.

Here are some options
https://orchardaudio.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fpcnp-strmr

https://volumio.org/product/volumio-primo/

https://www.hifiberry.com/

Check out the Bel Canto eOne Stream. Has a built in DAC but can be used with an external DAC as well. Includes Bel Canto's Seek App that is also very good. Excellent sound quality.

I second the Bluesound approach - excellent app then you can upgrade the DAC. Lumin D2 has a far less friendly app, does not have an antenna, and support from Lumin at least in the USA is non-existent. The access to all the streaming radio stations in the world will be a revelation. Tidal on the internal Bluesound DAC is pretty darn satisfying for all but those who sit in the perfect listening position imitating Jonsey from the Hunt for Red October.