@photomax
Thanks. My system is listed here on Agon. Pictures need update to show the tube amp, new CJ CT5 pre and the 2 sumiko subs.
I'm always ready to buy used in good shape, especially when entering an arena. I don't want the forever DAC right now but I want to go higher than the Bluesound. My system deserves this I believe since i have good source equip now.. I've been reading for a couple weeks now but have not read the Darko article which sounds helpful. I think i know that the ladder Dac has more feel/ soul where the chip has more detail. Obviously thats a little over simplified. thanks
@lalitk
Thanks for the input also. I had played with the idea of a Bluesound just for streaming to a good DAC. I've read good things about all ones you mention as well. the Innuous was the last that I encountered. By that time I figured i needed a break. BTW is that just a DAC w/ power supply? |
BTW Many of the streamers/ Dacs in my list have a 30 day $$$ back warranty (if bought new) Obviously not when used. I'd still considered used though
Another concern is to have a digital coax out so as to hook my CDP into. Also, I only have 134 inches allotted space in my rack now. Depth is normal. The DACs on my list will fit in the space but some I have crossed off because they were too long for my space. That may have been the case with the Lumin
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@lalitk If you want to hook up your CDP into a DAC then you would need to pick up a DAC with at least two COAX Inputs Why so? Can’t I use the coax for CDP and USB ior another input for streamer? Thanks For the price of Node 2i, look at this listing, you get CD ripping capability as a bonus. Is that easier than ripping on computer. BTW I don’t have Ipad. I do have android phone though. That will work for interface though won’t it? BTW Thanks |
Thanks for all the input. Its very helpful. So, it looks like I should go with separates which makes sense. I think maybe I don’t understand some of the terminology used by the mfgs. Though somewhat new to streaming high quality music, I do have 30 yrs experience with computers and stream video via Roku. I also have a laptop to stream from if that is good. But I think its best not to use a computer...Right?
BTW, I only have 13 inch width available. NOT the 134 my big fingers put earlier |
@djones51
Good idea. But I most always jump in the deep end right off. Then I complain a while til I figure it out. LOL |
@crn3371 @lalitk
Can I use the Bluesound Node 2i as a streamer only with another DAC?
What are other lower cost streamers ie Node 2i? Seems that I have looked mostly at the DAC portion of the equation.
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@uberwaltz
I wasn't sure if simplicity might come with Streamer Dac combo? I appreciate simplicity. but I understand the lack of flexibility. IO guess the only real thing to learn is the streaming interface. And I'd have to learn it no matter which way I go. |
OK, Maybe I don't know as much as I thought which.......
Do I need to run a network wire from my router to the Streamer? OR Can it run on wireless? I have good enough signal to stream video. I also have 1-3 GB usb hard drive which I can put near streamer. Can I download necessary files for streamer to a USB hard drive and have streamer read it off hard drive plugged via usb into streamer?
Time to go get my head clear now, THANKS to all for your help!
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@bruce19
Have you a//b the Yamaha against the 2i? I’m just curious. The audio shop here in town sells & uses one to demo their speakers (Watkins Gen 4). The music sounds great. He’s been trying to sell me one.
Then too, I've read that all streamers are not equal in their ability to hand over the 1's & 0's over to the dac. I don't know if this is correct though. |
Wow guys. Thanks very much. This has been a good learning process. I think I will go with a streamer for now. Most have suggested Bluesound Node or Vault 2 or 2i. I have messaged one seller but have not heard back yet. I'll do another. I'm also wondering if I should spring for $250-$300 more for a Vault 2i. I know it has some updated streaming codecs and better Bluetooth. It may have updated menu selections too, but I'm not sure. I know the menu and interface are very important and thank you for reminding me of that.
I can get the 2i for a little over $800. The only rub is that its "Factory Refurbished". But it still has a 1 yr warranty. Since its factory I may do that if its worth the extra At some point I will put an upgraded DAC on it.. I really do like the vault so I am leaning that way.
FWIW, I was cranked up Saturday from steroids for my back pain. It was the 1st day and I had 6 that day. At some point I was in a state of not knowing if I wanted to sleep or fly. LOL. Never been there before. Then I didn't sleep at all on Sat night and therefore was in quite a fog yesterday. But it is nice to be rid of the low back pain. And again I thanks you all for the help. I'm sure I will ask other questions such as if I should spend the $800 new 2i vault ? |
@larry5729
Thanks. If I go with the vault I'll have to hard wire it since it doesn't do wireless. My router is about 50 feet from the stereo. So, I'm go into have to run a wire under the house OR get a Wifi range extender. been doing some reading on them today. I would like to bring my router closer to the central part of the house. I have a good router only a few years old. It does ac wireless. |
Gentlemen, many thanks again for the help/. One clarification I have.
I will NOT be using the services of a streaming service, IE Qobuz, etc. I have been collecting FLAC & Apple Lossless for 10 or more years. I probably have at least 1TB in files now .Plus I'll be ripping more Cd's of which I probably have 2k. Then there are 4k albums. I have plenty of music . So I see no need of a subscription to music. And I have no desire at this time to have a Roon subscription. So, in effect I will only be streaming my own library, which is why the Vault looks tempting. IF i could hook up my computer to my stereo system and have it sound good, that's all I would need for now. But we know that's not the way to get good sound. Hope I haven't rambled too much . again thanks
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@big_greg
Thanks I figured I can rip the cd's I need to on my computer. Theres quite a few but I have 1TB of music already ripped. Now for another question
I've read somewhere that all streamers are not equal in their ability to hand over the 1's & 0's over to the dac. I don't know if this is correct though. What is the general consensus on that? Do you know? Thanks
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Thanks guys. I’m getting tired of the hunt and the research My brains need a rest.
This thread has been a real eye opener which has helped me to understand more. Great bunch here. Thanks |
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@witswWindows. Son tried for years to get me into mac, thus the M4a files for Ipod. Hated Itunes. It took up every resource on my PC. I couldn’t run anything else with it running and I am a RAM man (Always more RAM)
@audioguy85
I’ve been playing records for 60 yrs. I have 4k and a very nice table et al. I have a pretty nice cdp, Theta Miles which, though not as good as the TT, is a good player. You have to do your research, which is why we both are here. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll look at it the Vdac. Sho... I may even start with that and a laptop. But I know I need to make a move soon. I’ll keep you guys updated |
@big_greg.
I’ve been as big a skeptic as anyone about audio voodoo and extraordinary claims. Then one day I put my $$$ down ($180 iirc) on an Oyaide power outlet. I felt stupid for spending the $$$. But it proved its worth. I have DIY tweaks which made a Big difference in my CDP. So, I don’t discount much anymore. This is why I tried to go above even the Node 2i because my system is at a very good place. But I know my cdp is getting old and the new trend is streaming. What I’m learning is the cost is very high at the time, to get equal sound to what I have now. Then yesterday I encountered the thread where CDP were said by many to be superior to streaming. I suspect the tech has finally able to make a cdp capable of very high def playback. But the market has moved away from that media. Who knows? Vinyl returned. With streaming, apparently unless you spend the $10k on the necessary equipment. This is a new market with everyone trying to show the best way and have their ways adopted. It always happens with new media. It will come soon.
@elliottbnewcombjr I am not familiar with the site so can’t answer about their reputation. Is there a particular article that you are referring? I will check it out. Thanks. |
@lalitk As many of us pointed out, you can get a Vault 2i (if you wish to rip your CD’s) or Node 2i as a start up device and add a DAC later on.
I am still on that track. As I have said I am getting tired from the research and have been taking steroids since Sat. So my mind is full and going 200 mph...at least. Plus my tendency is to overthink (Which you have been very helpful to overcome) One question. I've read that the caching process seems to be a problem for digital play. SSID is preferred over std HD. This seems to make a case for a SSiD NAS of some kind for playback. Is that a good reason to buy the Vault over the Node? If i stream my catalog to the node, it will still be playing from the hard drive in essence. Hmm wonder if the HD's in the Vault are SSiD? Any thoughts? BTW I messaged the guy with the Vault but have never heard back from him. I can still get the Vault 2i for $815 (Factory refurb) I'll get there. Thanks for your info. |
@uberwaltz I got this idea from Aurender CEO in a interview. He does not let hdd do the playing. OK for storage, but hdd hands off to SSiD for play. Thus the question as to whether the vault has ssid and therefore a better player? https://www.audiostream.com/content/tips-setting-audiophile-nas-system-aurender-john-paul-lizars At this point I’ve spent too much time reading and digesting. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...(-: ...and I’m wound tight on these steroids (for my back). One more day left @big_greg. I hear ya. I overthink things. Maybe after I can get off this hunt I'll get centered up. Then too, it comes down to that thought that everything matters. But hey, only one more day of these steroids!!! Yeah |
@wsitsw
All I use now is the streamer and a LUMIN server that has ripped FLAC files on it.
I believe one of my problems is the terminology. Please define streamer and server as used in the sentence? FWIW I will only be playing files from my Hard Drive. I will be using no streaming services ie Qobuz. Yet I have been referring to the playing my Flac files from the hard drive as "Streaming" them. IOW the whole process is streaming (I thought) But I think that must not be how everyone else is using the term "streaming" |
@uberwaltz I think majority of members here who refer to streaming really mean accessing an online music service over the internet.
Like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify etc.
I believe you are right. I've been in the analog realm for so long I don't know the terms which are generally used by the streaming people. Add to that That my initial thoughts have been transformed . Its a form of Audiophile culture shock. I get the hang of it though. |
@big_greg if you want to get the best sound quality, consider something other than the Bluesound line. Investing in something with a better DAC will have more of an impact on sound quality than whether the files are stored on a spinning hard drive or a SSD. Yes. That was my initial thought. But the equip I had scouted were Dacs only. That was my misunderstanding because the terminology is not clear to me.So the budget comes into play about which streamer or player to start with. So far has been suggested by a lot of people. I already know I won’t stop with the Bluesound Dac. I’m looking towards a good r2r dac or maybe the Benchmark or something similar. That’s where I am now. Just trying to get started on the right foot. It does look like the Aurender is ahead of the game. But whatever the case, I believe its going to cost more than I had budgeted. But that’s nothing new (-: BTW Thanks for the heads up on the Teac. |
@ big_greg
Those 2 have risen to the top of the list. I just learned I don’t need the vault. I have a new PC. Ripping to Flac is simple in Win 10. So to celebrate my new learnin’ I’m gonna buy a new set of power tubes for my amp. This is the last day of steroids so I may get some brain cells back...or at least be able to focus.
@whatsthatbuzz
First thing is your files. Using apple (Mac) you are limited to apple lossless. NO Mp3. I also believe that a streamer/server/player would be preferable to a phone. I’m not totally sure of that. But wireless is going to have some part of the problem. Then again, that too is debatable. The Node 2i is popular.I’m not the sharpest knife in this drawer but I have been in the audiophile community
for a long time and I know that lossless codec is a must. And I have used digital music files since Napster. Others may chime in with more help. Good luck |
@whatsthatbuzz I don’t understand why a streamer would provide better sound than an iPhone Just like all phones are not equal, all streamers are not equal. I’m an old guy and I HATE these little phones. More precisely I hate that people think these are computers when they are only half (F)assed computers. They are doing 27 different jobs and none of them well IMO. They are great as a portable device. I use one if I’m out and about and need to use the net. But at home for real surfing, I would never consider using the phone Partially cause I have poor vision. I’m not sure that a phone can even play lossless music. Pretty sure mine cant. But there too, paying for a music subscription is foreign to me. But I guess its great fr those who have no music library. If music quality means nothing then a phone will do. But if you want good hi def you will need more I think. There again, there are other younger people who understand the younger culture priorities better than I do. Someone may explain it better. And then the phone may be all you want. WOW Yeah you didn’t ask for that rant did ya? Pay no attention. I’m just come out from taking steroid for a week and irritation comes far too easy. Nothing personal (-: Let me explain my problem with the phone more clearly. It does a lot of tasks. Its a great invention. However, I've always found that anything which does a lot of thing have to have compromises built in to allow that. Therefore they don't do anything particularly. Its that way with every one that I have encountered. The phone simply does not have the size to isolate the necessary items that will interfere with each other. Therefore you have noise which interferes with the signal most often. It may not show as outright noise to the end user. But it will show up on a scope and when A-B'd against a product which does have proper isolation it will show that it is far inferior. Hope that helps. |
@bicuThis was written in 2013. Is it valid? Digital keeps changing and we learn more every day. . The CEO of Aurender disputes this I believe.
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Friends, Thanks for all the info. One thing I think is missing is that most of you probably have not looked at my system. It is listed here on A’gon (though w dated picys). But that may be something that most don’t know about. So here it is
Teres 340 TT
Vacuum State JLTi phono pre
Zyx 4D cart on OL Illustrious tonearm
Theta Miles CDP
Conrad Johnson CT-5 preamp
Bob Latino ST-70 amp
Silverline Sonata speakers
2 Sumiko S-10 subs (Rel S-5 clones)
Pure Note cables
Monster power conditioner
Oyaide R1 power outlet
Various tweaks especially footers (makes a real difference)
Some have suggested that I spend $200-300 +/- for a player/dac. Do you really think that will sound good or be competitive in my system? Of course not. Again, I appreciate your efforts. But top quality playback comes at a cost. Sure, there are giant killers. The Latino ST-70 is one. But giant killers are very few. As much as it seems to bother the new audiophile, price is an indicator. FWIW, I don't have deep pockets. Its taken me 20 yrs to get to this level. But I am committed to good quality sound. And I have often spent a quarter to save a dime. Its human nature. We want things as cheap as we can get them. But one thing I have learned is that 95% of the time when I try to go too cheap I end up spending more than I would have if I had spent the necessary $$ to get what I was looking for in the 1st place.
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@big_gregI love my vinyl but I am 69 yr old now. There will come a time where I won’t feel like doing the ritual which goes with vinyl. Digital is easy...even CD is easier than vinyl. But CDP’s will be extinct very soon. Streaming is the trend.
When I started this thread, I had certain notions that were not true. So I have learned from this thread. I also thought about getting a network extender so I could use a wired player. I have good signal now with a WRT1900 Linksys router. Network does 100mbps (Spectrum) so I am fortunate there. The extender may be added insurance since my system is 50 ft from the router. But maybe more important are the wired LAN connections it offers.
I don’t discount the streaming services. I’m sure I’ll try them. But they aren’t important at this point. I’m sure I have a terabite of files now. Sometimes I do Pandora but not often. And I know they are not hi def. I’m trying to cut out the subscription services...mostly cable TV.
Thanks for the link to the access point. I'll look later. |
A hearty good day and thanks for all the info. I am digesting it all at this time. As you can see, I'm not an impulsive buyer.
I have considered the WXC 50 Yamaha, Node 2 and now Aurender as a server. Probably after that, a R2R Dac, I know the Aurender is most expensive. And maybe I have to go some over my budget w/ the Aurender and MHDT Orchid Dac. This is not written in stone. Still may go with the Node2. But I've learned that in audio, everything counts. I learned that, when I begrudgingly paid $175 for a Oyaide Power outlet & it DID make a difference. Then when I tried pumice stones as footers for my CDP and it made a great difference in sound stage. I now discount very little. Anyway, that's where I'm at now. And again I thank you all.
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@bicu Forgot to thank you for the link to Volumio Looks interesting. One poster said the Boss sounded close to his Yiggy & Ambre server. I do believe in giant killers. you can look at my amp and see that. Yet believe they are the exception, not the rule as some like to think. |
