Ever hear a power cable make a huge difference?

Tvad, I think you are too cynical. There is no question that early on I had to be more concerned about affording the equipment I bought than I do now. I don't think ego, power, or control has anything to do with it. I have more disposable income how.

I still think the real debate on threads such as this does relate to some making judgments about what other hear or think they hear. I just do not understand why some think they have the right to judge what others hear.

Mrtennis: "why do people argue over whether other people hear differences between any two components?"

Why do people argue over religion, science, medicine, or any other topic? It's been that way since the beginning of man. That also covers your entire last paragraph. You don't see a needed aspect for questioning and debate, with regards to human rationale? Just ignore the topic of "audio" for a moment, and think of a "human" world, in any aspect, without debate.

It isn't just the thses audio forums!

Alun,
Why don't manufacturers provide the best power cord for their electronics? Perhaps it would add to the cost of their final products or perhaps the best cable does not exist and is therefore subjective. In either case it is prudent that manufacturers only provide utility cables and allow the end user to pick and choose the cable that delivers the sound they are looking for.

Why don't speaker manufacturers provide the best speaker cables with their speakers? Alternatively, why don't electronics manufacturers provide the best interconnects with their electronics? Some manufacturers do provide cables but these are Mid-Fi components that hardly represent High End performance. Is it that far off before this debate turns to all Amplifiers, CD Players, Pre-Amps, etc. sound the same? If so then reports of Stereo Review’s demise were premature.

Perhaps the abundance of electronics, speaker, and cable manufacturers exist because electronics, speakers, and cables do all sound different and perhaps it is these differences that people are attracted to.

LM

alun, it comes down to money. Manufacturers have to produce to a COGS target in order to meet the price point they want and the achieve the desired margins. Unless a product is produced as no holds barred, everything is a compromise between price and performance. That is why most manufacturers have several models of a particular product, each one costing more and thus providing more performance. Adding a high end power cord, or resistor, or feature may push the manufacturing costs above the target price.

If a component is built to achieve a certain sound quality then why does the manuf. not supply components with the appropriate power cord? It seems a gross error on thier part not to include the cabling which helps make the component sound the best it can.
I don't understand the power cord game...

Thanks Tboooe. Though it wasn't that difficult it is much more useful than most of the silly thoughts most have come up with regarding this subject.

rwwear, thanks for the well thought out and very useful response....

thezipper, I have no problem with people who dont think pc make any difference. In fact, I am a bit on the fence in this regard as well. What I dont get is when people choose to jump on a thread and make fun of or challenge those who do think pcs make a difference. As you said, this is a hobby, a very subjective one at that. I say let people enjoy it in anyway they want to without having to defend their views or face ridicule. Anyway, just my measly two cents.

After market power cords can be quite effective when connected to a 120V potential.

If not, they can appear lifeless and in many cases are indistinguishable from a stock power cord.

As always YMMV.

why do people argue over whether other people hear differences between any two components ?

if person a hears a differenc between 2 power cords, how does it affect person b's enjoyment of his/her own stereo system.

we are turning into perception police, monitoring and commenting on percptions with which we disagree. it is futile and irrational to be concerned with what another person hears. accept other people's perceptions and move on.

I find many of the posts in this thread “interesting” and thought I’d see what some of the more interesting posters had to say on other topics- enjoy!

11-27-05: Thezipper
“As far as speaker cables go, you'll do just fine with a decent 12-16 gauge zip cord.”
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1132940913&openusid&zzThezipper&4&5#Thezipper

11-21-05: Thezipper
“Do you really think that the wire is "broken in" or perhaps that you've become accustomed to what you're hearing?”
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1131509484&openusid&zzThezipper&4&5#Thezipper

08-05-07: Thezipper
“As long as the PC for that is 12 or 14 gauge then it should be fine. Your PC has one job...........get the electricity to the component, nothing more, nothing less. AC is AC.......a PC won't, nor should it, change that.”

06-07-06: Rwwear
“I held an 8' and 5' power cord up to my ear and I thought they both sounded the same. I guess I'm not an audiophile.”
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1149694664&openusid&zzRwwear&4&5#Rwwear

01-23-07: Heyitsmedusty
“I do love the rich language that people use to describe the vague sonic minutiae that they hear from switching components, and I also love when people hear those differences when it may be physically impossible to do so!
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1139558775&openusid&zzHeyitsmedusty&4&5#Heyitsmedusty

03-10-07: Rel
“So Apple maniacs confess! How many of you secretly hate authority, all big business, and Republicans?”

“I'd say around 99%....thanks for asking!”
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1173483403&openflup&9&4#9

09-28-05: Audiofeil
“Disclosure: I am a Stealth Audio distributor.
There exists cables which should not be "cooked". For example, we warn all purchasers of Stealth Indra, up front, that under no circumstances should these interconnects be used with any break in device other than normal use in their system. No exceptions. The warranty is void when the purchaser uses such devices.”
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1127693186&openusid&zzAudiofeil&4&5#Audiofeil

Do cables have a break in period? In other words do cables sound different before and after they have had a signal passed through them? Does cable burn-in accumulate over time?

If your answer is "no" then you reveal yourself as prejudiced to the point of not being able to hear what is so clearly audible to those of us who care to listen.

If your answer is "yes" then it stands to reason that an extreme signal such as the one recorded in Synergistic’s video could have an impact on the sound of a cable. That they open their doors to tours as was the case with Brutusab and that his findings should illicit ridicule from people who were not there or cannot hear what is plain to others (power cords, cable burn-in, etc) places their opinions in perspective.

I for one am delighted by my Tesla cables and am glad for companies who dare to innovate. Is it really so strange that power cords can improve a system or that cable burn-in could effect the sound of a cable? I’ve been improving the sound of my system with power cords for years and I’ve never heard a new cable that did not improve with use.

Flame suite and flame thrower at the ready.

LM

I believe in power cords. I saw one the other day and some other people saw it too. I don't have any pictures though. I mean pictures of the power cord. I don't have any pictures of the people either. But, you can trust me, they both exist.

As I was still hoping that Scarlett Johansson may appear in my room, all of a sudden Ted Denney IV shows up with the new power cord, a pre-quantum-tunnel version.
About 2 minutes later Ted Denney V appeared with his new power cord that was just "quantum tunneled".

We were able to A-B these in my system.
I have to say, I was every bit as impressed as Brutusab.

I have pre-ordered the cord already. Awesome product!

Tboooe.........I think naysayers find it laughable that one could "charge a wire" or change the way AC will react simply by "pre-cooking" the path in which it is to flow. If there are people who have money to blow on neatly dressed conductive material, more power to 'em. I make my own cables in my lab & have compared them with cables selling for more than 50X what it costs me to make mine...........no measurable or audible differences. But those are just my findings..........obviously, others have reached different conclusions. To each their own........it's a hobby to have fun with.

Forgive me for getting on a little soapbox but I don't understand why those who do not believe in the effect of power cords are commenting in this thread and essentially ridiculing what the original poster honestly felt he heard. I totally appreciate the fact that some people do not believe in power cords. I do not think they are wrong, nor do I make it a point to poke fun at them when they choose to express their views. If you do not believe that power cords make a difference then wouldn't it be much easier to just avoid this thread and allow those who do believe in power cords to have a dialogue without having to endure verbal jabs for no other reason than the fact they believe in something some others do not? (que "Kumbaya").

Ok off my soapbox and flame suit on...have a great weekend.

power cord sound changes are the hi fi version of seeing the loch ness monster

What about a Sasquatch sighting does that count too? I have seen video footage of a Sasquatch - so I know it is exists.

power cord sound changes are the hi fi version of seeing the loch ness monster.

Our local laboratory was out of Accelerators, so I had to settle for a Flux Capacitor. The only problem is that I have heard these units can be very accident prone, and shouldn't be used during lightning storms. If anyone can go back to the future posts to see if there are any safety issues, it would greatly help me out.

Thanks,
Doc

Power cable make a huge difference? Yes. Easily.

How do they gurantee the effects from the high voltage are lasting... The QT treatment sounds like it aligns the dipole moments of the di-electric...I wonder how they ensure this forced biasing actually sticks...

Dpac996,
I do not assume they are NOT charging both the positive and negative wires with the same potential.

Back on topic, I purchased my Accelerators in January before Quantum Tunneling was perfected (I've since upgraded to Apex and Precision Reference). I sent my speaker cables and interconnects to the factory for a free treatment and the improvements were just as Brutusab described- incredible. I wonder why SR does not offer this service for non-SR cables? (For a fee of course) This way more people can appreciate the work Synergistic is doing.

LM

i've built tesla coils and van de graff generators. I know exactly what you ware talking about. The intangible excitement surrounding that first right spark gap and correct resonance is nothing short of awesome. Yes to do it with solid state IGBT's is the next best thing, but spark gaps are way cool. I suppose this issue could easily meltdown to a tesla coil analog of tube vs ss in audio amps..whatever. THe puzzeling thing to me, unless you are charging both the positive and negative wires with the same potential, you will easily exceed the dielectric breakdown of your insulating materials and essentially break your own cables by the arcing. Once you have caused punch through of the insulation there is no turning back. How do you verify that you have not caused this?

Ted, any idea when these cables will be available?

I make a cup of coffee, grab my laptop, visit one of my favorite sites and, POW!, what the heck? Well it’s true; I have been working on a new line of power cords that are a radical departure from my existing designs. The original AC Master Coupler has been in production since early 1994 with all subsequent SR power cord designs having their evolutionary roots in the original AC Master Coupler design. All that’s about to change with the release of the new Tesla Series Power Cords.

I can’t really comment on the OP’s enthusiastic description of what he heard in my reference system except to say we have an open door policy here at Synergistic Research. If you are in the Southern California area and would like to visit the factory, give us a call and make an appointment. I’m an enthusiastic audiophile myself and love to share my reference system with fellow music lovers- especially when I am about to release a new product. It helps to get feedback from listeners not directly involved in the development program and if someone has something to share, as a result of hearing my system, that’s their business. I will say of all the cables in a system it is my opinion that power cords are the most system dependent. A power cord that works wonders on your DAC may not work so well on your amplifier, while a power cord that clicks with your amplifier may not work so well on your pre-amp, and so on. This is what I have been quantifying and will address with my new power cords.

As to Quantum Tunneling, I see nothing to hide here, nor do I understand why we should perform this procedure in secret. It works, it’s a corner stone technology in the Tesla Series based in the work of Nikola Tesla, has several procedural patents pending, and it’s fun as hell, especially the video. In fact, I feel certain many of my fellow gear junkies have as much fun with this as I do. As to the coil we are using this is where we deviate from Tesla's 100-year-old designs. His were vacuum tube spark gap circuits with a fixed signal determined by the size of the coil. Ours is a huge solid-state design that allows us to change both the frequency of the signal as well as it’s bpm (beats per minute). It is this distinction, specifically the exact frequency of the pulse-modulated signal, and it's duration that holds the secret to our process. Get it right and you transform a cable in a way that is unlike any conditioning effect you’ve ever experienced, get it wrong and you’ll ruin the subjective sound quality of a cable, and we have a mountain of zapped cables from our QT development program to prove it. As to dielectric breakdown, the current of the QT pulse is aprox what you get from static electricity, so there is no change to high pot test results measuring dielectric strength on cables before and after the Quantum Tunneling process.

So if you’re ever in the area stop by and I’ll give you the same before and after demonstration I gave the OP, and I won’t make you sign a non disclosure agreement, nor will I admonish you to promote my company. I’m just a fellow audiophile lucky enough to love what I do, and I love to share my work with others so your always welcome at Synergistic Research.

Yours in music,
Ted Denney III Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.

PS. The pan to the ceiling in the video is to show the florescent fixtures “lighting up” as a result of energy being put in the surrounding air from the Tesla Coil. If you hold a florescent bulb in your hand and it will light up within an 8ft radius of the spark, great fun!

Hi Bar81 and all.

08-23-07: Bar81
Isn't the fact that a power cable is making a "huge difference" indicative of issues in the rest of the system it's being used in, particularly where it's changing the sound of such system (as opposed to lowering the noise floor, etc.)?

If I'm understanding you correctly, the issue isn't so much with componentry as to why after-market cords do what they do. It has much more to do with the AC service in your residence. There's a ton of stuff inside and outside the residence that affect that.

Depending on the design, there are a myriad of things power cords can do that can, for better or for worse, change the character of the AC powering your gear....even if it's only 4'-8'

This is huge considering when all is said and done, the music we listen to is basically the PSU in our gear being controlled and minipulated by all the other circuitry in the piece of gear.

So, it doesn't so much go to good or bad gear, but more about bad AC.

Hope that makes a bit of sense.

Kindly,
Robert
RSAD

Brutusab, could you mention the preamp they used?

it's a small to mid sized basic Tesla coil, (not a Van de Graff generator). The tesla coil generates massive voltages that easily exceed the breakdown voltage of air. It would seem that the folks at SR are using the cable under test to connect the target ground point (the thing the spark discharges to) to ground via the unit under test (the cable). The high frequency ( >100kHz + harmonics) voltage pulses will no doubt cause an effect to the dielectrics of the cable, but will they last...?

It would seem they refer to this method of dielectric change as quantum tunneling...big words for a very simple phenomenon. Very nice video. Love the ceiing vent.
By the way if anyone is remotely interested in sending me their cables for the ultimate tunneling job I can hook them up to my jumbo bug zapper, or a pimped out neon sign transformer to about the same effect. Just bend over and wire the money first.

After the cable was quantum tunneled, it sounded much better. I do not pretend to be and engineer or a physics major, I just know when something sounds good and when it does not. I can tell you, if I was not there to hear it I probably would not have believed it. Since I was there, I can say it was the best power cord I have ever heard. I can't wait to get it on to my system.

I just read the info that these are named after Nikola Tesla. I have some thoughts on that, the first being those are some big shoes to fill.

I'm also reading into this that since Tesla did not get the credit he should have, that these are meant to honor him but at the same time, maybe there's the thought these won't get the credit they deserve?

I'm all for trying something new, especially if it's a forward step instead of a lateral move.

For me the bottom line is to trust your ears and it's impossible to make a decision if you haven't had a listen.

Oh, and to answer the question-yes, AC cables do make a difference, as much or more than any other cable in the system.

Of course, like anything else, your results may vary.

So far my only experience with power cables has to do with interferance with other cables as in the "hummmm".

Some cables do better than others.

I did recently run 20 amp dedicated lines and this was a massive improvement over my very ancient wiring in my circa 1924-built home.

08-23-07: Bar81
Isn't the fact that a power cable is making a "huge difference" indicative of issues in the rest of the system it's being used in, particularly where it's changing the sound of such system (as opposed to lowering the noise floor, etc.)?
Bar81 (System | Answers)

Bar81 is making a good point. I would like to add to what was said above, that in my experience, the component on which a power cord change has such an impact, usually has a power supply design that leaves a lot to be desired.
A component that has a properly designed, implemented and functioning power supply, simply by swapping a power cord should not change in a way that was described above by Brutusab.

That said, I would also like to know what make/model that component was.

Isn't the fact that a power cable is making a "huge difference" indicative of issues in the rest of the system it's being used in, particularly where it's changing the sound of such system (as opposed to lowering the noise floor, etc.)?

i need to know what preamp was being used in these demonstrations; i don't know much about the guts inside of
a high-end component, but i've read here and there that, inside of a well-thought out component, there
is alot of pre-treatment of the current coming into the box before it is utilized by the circuitry responsible for the the signal and noise rejection before it is passed on to the output jacks. i have some aftermarket pc's myself, but after using a decent power conditioner for source components i hear little advantages other than the nicely built connectors they come with. plus, none of the stores i frequent have ever bothered to set up demonstrations using power cords either. they sell them, but with the caveat that it's up to you to see if you can hear a difference or not in your own home.
this would indicate to me that they're avoiding any arguments over the lack of dramatic results that might come out of such a demonstration. plus the fact that an electrician has already customized the room outlets to a fair (perhaps fanatical) degree.

I had tried a number of power cords and I was able to hear differences, but I never heard one make what I would term a "big" difference. Until I heard a new type of power cord that uses bundles of carbon nanotubes from Intuitive Design. The differences I heard in soundstaging, bass, and detail were pretty amazing, like that of a component change. There is a review of ID's Chimera carbon nanotube cables here on the Gon.

brutusab, any idea when these power cables will be released?

I turn 50 in a couple of weeks and this is reminding me of what I will be going through with my doctor......C'mon..I agree with Audphilel.....Ted Denney has lost some credibilty here in my opinion. Just make a good cable for all of us to enjoy !!!!! I still can't sit down after that

I suspect at the prices for some of the cables out there many buyers are getting a "quantum tunneling".

True. Power cords make a difference. I have heard a few. Never it was as shocking as described above though.

I respect Synergistic Research. These guys make very good cables. I did audition Tesla Accelerator speaker cables as soon as they came out. They were excellent and sounded really good in my system.

But these guys are stepping out of bounds with this Quantum Tunneling stuff. Also, this obviously fascinates some people here. Tesla is becoming a cult here on audiogon. The only other few things that can still compete with it in audio forums as far as publicity is concerned are the Anti-Cables, Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers, modified SMc Audio amps and Supratek.

Why can't SR do what they do at the factory quietly and be a little more modest about it. There is no need for this video to be on their website. They've been around for years and have their clientele and solid reputation.
Why this?

"This Product May Spontaneously Disappear from Its Present Location and Reappear at Any Random Place in the Universe, Including Your Neighbors Domicile"

But only when connected to Improbable Drive.

Lots of cute comments guys and ladies,
My question who has actually heard these cables? you can talk about what cables cost and what the result is and it is all relative. I personally look to the improvement of my system. And the recent upgrades using the Tesla cables were well worth the investment.

Leica Man: Awesome video! Thanks for the link. Really liked the slow pan up to the vent in the ceiling for no particular reason. And if you look very carefully in the glass, you can just make out a reflection of the operator, including the giant bolt that runs through his neck.

I'm wondering now if I should retract my snarky comment at the beginning of this thread--I really had no idea that there were electrical meters and big sparks involved in this process. It must be VERY scientific!

And I was thinking, if they're really serious about the quantum mechanical nature of their enterprise, shouldn't they include some of those classic product warning labels?

Here are a few to consider:

Handle with Extreme Care: This Product Contains Minute Electrically Charged Particles Moving at Velocities in Excess of Five Hundred Million Miles per Hour.

This is a 100% Matter product: In the Unlikely Event That This Merchandise Should Contact Antimatter in Any Form, a Catastrophic Explosion Will Result.

Attention: Despite Any Other Listing of Product Contents Found Hereon, the Consumer Is Advised That, in Actuality, This Product Consists Of 99.9999999999% Empty Space.

and perhaps most appropriate,

Advisory: There is an Extremely Small but Nonzero Chance That, Through a Process Known as 'Tunneling,' This Product May Spontaneously Disappear from Its Present Location and Reappear at Any Random Place in the Universe, Including Your Neighbors Domicile. The Manufacturer Will Not Be Responsible for Any Damages or Inconvenience That May Result.

-

>>He brought it to his Tesla machine and gave it a quantum tunneling.<<

Where's Geoff at MD? This stuff is right up his alley.

PS. I just posted this to the Tesla thread but here is a video of a pair of cables being Quantum Tunneled. I assume this is what Brutusab experienced (though not directly I hope : )

Brutusab did you actually witness a pair of cables being Quantum Tunneled and if so was a big improvement before verses after?

http://synergisticresearch.com/index.php?PageID=191

LM

Riwainwright,
Just to clarify, what you heard is not what Brutusab heard. Am I correct?

LM

I have heard a power cable make a "noticeable" difference, but I would not classify it as "huge". Since the power cable could be made for < $100, I consider it money well-spent. However, I would *not* spend $500 or more for what I heard. Just my 2 pence...

-RW-

I have had quite a few conversations with Ted upgrading my Designers Reference Cables to the tesla series. In April I upgraded my interconnects and was very pleased with the results. last week I replaced the speaker cables with Tesla Apex, And once again was completely satisfied with the results. The overall presentation was improved, loads of detail improvement in the soundstage and extension in both directions was astounding. Ted and his crew are making truly world class cables. He also told me about the tesla power cords that they are working on, based on my previous experiences with their products I told him to put me down for serial number 1

From what I know about Quantum Tunneling, I gather that he took the cord, violated the principles of classical mechanics by passing it through a wall, and then hooked it up. Just another audio miracle from "David Blaine's House of High-End Sound and Other Wonders."

I love it:

"He brought it to his Tesla machine and gave it a quantum tunneling."

And then what? He dropped it into his P.T. Barnum vat, and gave it a snake oiling??
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