Equipment Rack


Does it make sense to spend several thousands of dollars on a equipment rack, if Stillpoints are used under every component?
ricred1
What measurable sonic effects does such "low frequency" vibration have?

answer, a lot . The impact of mounting my Magico Q3s on Townshend Seismic podia was profound. The quality of the bass response became much more natural, sounding exactly like the live unforced bass I heard in a concert just this last weekend

This link provides more background on the sources and effects of this insidious vibration, don't underestimate what it is doing to your system nor make the false assumption that because you are on a concrete slab a long way from a main road you are not still subject to the effect of micro earthquakes 




now a question for you. How do you keep very low frequency and low frequency structureborne vibration from getting up into the component? One imagines you look the other way and hope it disappears.

cheers,

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
we do artificial atoms right
What measurable sonic effects does such "low frequency" vibrations have?
Short answer:  no

If you enjoy the fruits of SPs, simply find an affordable (and aesthetically attractive) rack for organizational purposes.  

If not, I recommend Starsound having owned both.  
theaudiotweak
1,353 posts
07-25-2016 12:37pm
So these mechanical filters, how do they relieve a component of the on board self generated noise from transformers, motor drives,filter capacitors, wiring and really anything that is electrically or mechanically connected within the chassis This is all one circuit path so how do you suggest removing this interfering energy? Tom

Nobody said the mechanical filters relieve vibration from the shelf or the component sitting on the shelf, including the electronic elements inside the component. I trust I didn’t give that impression. At the same time there are any number of (relatively lo-tech) ways to deal with those issues, including but not limited to constrained layer damping, vibration dissipators like those Tekna Sonic dampers, cork damping, damping of the top plate of the "mechanical filter," shielding the component from airborne vibration, damping transformers, CD transport mechanisms, use of very hard materials such as NASA grade ceramics to mount the component on the top plate as well as to mount the iso device on the floor or rack and Marigo VTS dots for all capacitors, circuit boards, electron tubes and the chassis itself.

now a question for you. How do you keep very low frequency and low frequency structureborne vibration from getting up into the component? One imagines you look the other way and hope it disappears.

cheers,

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
we do artificial atoms right

So these mechanical filters, how do they relieve a component of the on board self generated noise from transformers, motor drives,filter capacitors, wiring and really anything that is electrically or mechanically connected within the chassis This is all one circuit path so how do you suggest removing this interfering energy? Tom
bdp24,
Please provide me an example of a mechanical filter product that I can purchase.
Geoff’s right ya know. Isolation down to around 3Hz can be accomplished pretty cheaply via a mechanical filter. With it in place, the nature of the shelf under the filter makes far less difference. A lot of people are "tuning" their audio equipment, not isolating it.
Ricred1

I sent you a message thru Audiogon. 
Most any answer would most likely generate another question which would be most efficient to answer in a phone conversation.

Thanks,
Tom

Theaudiotweak wrote,

"Remember isolation can only exist in the absence of matter..if you get the drift."

Nobody ever said isolation is or has to be perfect 100% isolation. What we’re talking about is actually rather imperfect isolation, a low passive mechanical filter (for most iso devices) that is inefficient for very low frequencies but increasing effective as one goes up in frequency. You know, depending on where the resonant frequency point happens to be. Thus by the point you get up to say 20 Hz the isolation is very close to 100%. And for frequencies that really count, e.g., the resonant frequencies of tonearms, cartridges, laser assemblies, etc. Circa 10-12 Hz the effectiveness of a competent iso device is actually quite good.




Every concept for footer or rack mentioned previous other than the post dated 7-21 are anisotropic in design or by nature. Multiple materials and speeds make for multiple refracted pathways. All materials have a resonance memory.. and shape is all part of this memory and its release. Using many materials with various shapes and boundaries predicts a varied attack and decay over a confused time frame.  The fix is in choosing the right  material and it's refracting shape. Talk about first reflection...it all starts with the materials and shapes you have chosen to set your audio components on..all those different wave fronts will create more interfering energy all within the component, your system and your room.  Multiple reflection points can be created before the first acoustic reflection point occurs.. prior to the first acoustic wave launched from your speaker reaches the the nearest room boundary. The fix is in the chosen material and it's refracting shape. The fewer parts the better..less gives you more music.  Remember isolation can only exist in the absence of matter..if you get the drift. Hey Cartman where would we be today without matter?  Tom. working with Star Sound Technologies
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm at a point that I'm so happy with my system. Although I have priced a couple Quadraspire racks, I'm still not convinced an expense rack is money well spent. 
I'll add another recommendation for Core Audio Design racks.  Extremely well made and effective, well isolated, no need for additional isolation tweaks.
Call Alan at 'STANDOUT'... designs for your Equipment Consol. 877-325-9663. Excellent isolation, real hardwoods, no need for stillpoints.

Will only speak for Star Sound Audio Points™ and every series of Sistrum Platforms™:

There are significant increases in sonic performance when stepping up from Audio Points to any higher priced Sistrum Platforms within every product category of the Star Sound product line up. Our promise is that every step of the way there will be significant increases in performance from the equipment you already own.

In our opinion and in order to accomplish this claim, a single technology with applied geometry combined with material science must exist within the core structural design of all product offerings.

The difference between a group of components with "any" cones sitting upon some type of equipment stand versus having components sitting on a product specifically designed to channel airborne/mechanical/electromechanical interfering energy onto a resonance conductive shelf which in turn is explicitly designed to channel that detrimental energy to the support rods, which in turn are specially engineered to channel that same energy efficiently to “ground” at high speed via the same geometry that is used “at the component level” is quite dramatic when listening and judging performance in musicality.

The big picture behind any Sistrum Platform is a model of operational “efficiency” engineered to carry unwanted energy from each component to the grounding plane commonly referred to as the greater sink or mass (rack to floor, component to rack, etc) and not just isolate each component from the next.

If your rack is designed as an anti-vibration isolation product or is wood furniture; the questions are where does all that energy caused from vibration go? Worse case is if the energy is being isolated from the rack and is primarily stored within the electronic component or loudspeaker as this establishes greater operational “inefficiencies” resulting in greater heat and resonance build up hence affecting performance (per Coulomb's Law).

Next, how does the rack react to each independently isolated piece of gear and what type of additional audible frequencies (commonly known as rack chatter) are expanded in the room from all the various vibrating combinations of racking build materials?

Since it is quite difficult to apply geometry to the family of primary absorbent materials as used in restrained layered damping techniques such as sand, lead, rubber and stone… are these also absorbing the live dynamics and/or harmonic structures we all look to attain in listening?

How do plastics, polymers, acrylics, glass, stones, woods, etc react to temperature and humidity changes and are they absorptive, reflective or conductive for resonance?

And does the rack have a pathway or means of rapid exit for the interfering energy to flow to the flooring?

These are examples of questions rarely asked of rack manufacturers.

Every equipment rack, just like every cone, spike, bearing or any other type of footer system does sound and perform entirely different. No two are remotely close to having the same sonic signature especially when used in tandem. Unfortunately one cannot easily listen and compare the differences that equipment racking makes since it is far easier to switch out a pair of very expensive cables but…


“know this”… the equipment racking decision is the most critical step in listening or advancing the performance value of any system. The equipment racks and speaker stands governs ‘overall’ sonic capability meaning every sound from every piece of equipment you purchase forever can only perform as good as what the rack/stand delivers! More important to that fact is how the equipment rack reacts and functions in the vibrating structural listening room itself.

Chances are you thought it was the speakers or amplifiers making the majority of difference in sound reproduction where the bottom line actually is the structural foundation they reside on.

Personally working with thousands of listeners and audiophiles for the past sixteen years, many of whom began with Audio Points and worked their way up to the much higher priced Platform products and have never experienced a situation where the lower priced items outperformed the higher.

In our case there are huge differences when comparing cones to racking where cost increases definitely do provide more musical experiences and higher levels of enjoyment from listening. Hope this helps and does not confuse. You are more than welcome to telephone and we will be happy to answer all your questions.

Robert Maicks

Star Sound



Seems like an unanswerable question.  I will say that I got my used Billy Bags rack, that cost 4 digits new, for 3 digits.  So there's that.  I'll add that even though I truly heard an immediate (and unexpected) improvement in overall sound quality when I installed the rack, I still have brass tiptoes, sorbathane pucks, and various other sundries sprinkled throughout the system!  Also, although I'm currently living in an apt. with concrete floors, prior to this I lived in a house where my rig was on the 2nd level which had wood floors (carpeted).  The rig definitely sounds better in the apt! 
astro58go,

My floor is carpeted with a wooden floor underneath. I already have stillpoints under all of my components. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to "listen" to different racks in my system. Lets assume stillpoints do a great job of isolation. If so, why would I need to spend several thousand on a rack?
Hi,

It seems from your pics that you have a concrete floor?

I have a WAY better solution for isolation if that is indeed what you really need?

ebm, ""overpriced junk". Wow!

Let's look at this objectively...

Symposium Rack ...expensive
Stillpoints ...expensive

The main issue is to evaluate products for yourself. To do otherwise is a thoughtless dream with no reality.


Also look at Core Audio Designs, I never felt the need to throw away my money in isolation tweaks. Solid hardwood construction with dampening materials in every shelf.  

I own a pair of PlyKraft's and amp stands for now 5 plus years. 
Post removed 
onhwy61,
Your second question is really funny! I’ve asked myself that same question several times.
1.  Contact Stillpoints, see what they recommend.

2.  Does any of this make sense?