ricred1,
What speaker system do you own?
Thanks in advance,
Robert
Star Sound
What speaker system do you own?
Thanks in advance,
Robert
Star Sound
Showing 16 responses by audiopoint
Will only speak for Star Sound Audio Points™ and every series of Sistrum Platforms™: There are significant increases in sonic performance when stepping up from Audio Points to any higher priced Sistrum Platforms within every product category of the Star Sound product line up. Our promise is that every step of the way there will be significant increases in performance from the equipment you already own. In our opinion and in order to accomplish this claim, a single technology with applied geometry combined with material science must exist within the core structural design of all product offerings. The difference between a group of components with "any" cones sitting upon some type of equipment stand versus having components sitting on a product specifically designed to channel airborne/mechanical/electromechanical interfering energy onto a resonance conductive shelf which in turn is explicitly designed to channel that detrimental energy to the support rods, which in turn are specially engineered to channel that same energy efficiently to “ground” at high speed via the same geometry that is used “at the component level” is quite dramatic when listening and judging performance in musicality. The big picture behind any Sistrum Platform is a model of operational “efficiency” engineered to carry unwanted energy from each component to the grounding plane commonly referred to as the greater sink or mass (rack to floor, component to rack, etc) and not just isolate each component from the next. If your rack is designed as an anti-vibration isolation product or is wood furniture; the questions are where does all that energy caused from vibration go? Worse case is if the energy is being isolated from the rack and is primarily stored within the electronic component or loudspeaker as this establishes greater operational “inefficiencies” resulting in greater heat and resonance build up hence affecting performance (per Coulomb's Law). Next, how does the rack react to each independently isolated piece of gear and what type of additional audible frequencies (commonly known as rack chatter) are expanded in the room from all the various vibrating combinations of racking build materials? Since it is quite difficult to apply geometry to the family of primary absorbent materials as used in restrained layered damping techniques such as sand, lead, rubber and stone… are these also absorbing the live dynamics and/or harmonic structures we all look to attain in listening? How do plastics, polymers, acrylics, glass, stones, woods, etc react to temperature and humidity changes and are they absorptive, reflective or conductive for resonance? And does the rack have a pathway or means of rapid exit for the interfering energy to flow to the flooring? These are examples of questions rarely asked of rack manufacturers. Every equipment rack, just like every cone, spike, bearing or any other type of footer system does sound and perform entirely different. No two are remotely close to having the same sonic signature especially when used in tandem. Unfortunately one cannot easily listen and compare the differences that equipment racking makes since it is far easier to switch out a pair of very expensive cables but… “know this”… the equipment racking decision is the most critical step in listening or advancing the performance value of any system. The equipment racks and speaker stands governs ‘overall’ sonic capability meaning every sound from every piece of equipment you purchase forever can only perform as good as what the rack/stand delivers! More important to that fact is how the equipment rack reacts and functions in the vibrating structural listening room itself. Chances are you thought it was the speakers or amplifiers making the majority of difference in sound reproduction where the bottom line actually is the structural foundation they reside on. Personally working with thousands of listeners and audiophiles for the past sixteen years, many of whom began with Audio Points and worked their way up to the much higher priced Platform products and have never experienced a situation where the lower priced items outperformed the higher. In our case there are huge differences when comparing cones to racking where cost increases definitely do provide more musical experiences and higher levels of enjoyment from listening. Hope this helps and does not confuse. You are more than welcome to telephone and we will be happy to answer all your questions. Robert Maicks Star Sound |
Here we go again Mr. Geoff Kait, If you personally do not grasp or comprehend information provided by anyone who contributes to the education and advancement of audio, what…? Is it now classified as mumbo jumbo? You obviously missed Tom’s answer to your question which included - “the fact that the tip was shaped at angles that would reject low frequency attempting to pass up through the point tip. I asked her how she knew this? She said it was common knowledge in her field of seismic science that this shape was a mechanical diode.”
By picking out a small portion of his “total and complete” response to your question and classifying said small portion as mumbo jumbo just goes to prove time and again how much of an obstructionist you actually are on this forum, my personal opinion of course. Were you able to self research or speak with anyone of authority whose education is specific to seismology to confirm Tom's complete response? AND before you begin to take aim at our newest team member who supplied a brief reply for your question, please note that she is a Registered Professional Engineer (PE) and a Registered Geologist (PG) . For over 30 years she has interpreted seismic data for many different industries. She has authored and presented 14 papers on different aspects of interpretation and understanding compressional waves to the Society of Exploration Geophysicists (SEG) International and she has also worked as a Geotechnical Engineer in the housing industry.
AND since we already discovered that personal credentials other than your own are meaningless to you and In order to provide the proof you continuously demand… that of which can “never” be completely explained in print because of your ongoing tactics to create even more ambiguous arguments before any question is completely answered..., including those technologies that are totally above your ability to comprehend, we would like to invite you in and listen to an Energy Room™. Dr. Andrew Gear, (Agear) a long time member here on AudioGon would enjoy having you over for an audition. At the very least this listening session would provide the physical proof from personal experience that not only are the Sistrum Platforms™ “not” affected by very low frequencies but the room construction, walls flooring and ceilings on the whole are also “not” affected - and all this performance without the existence of any acoustic panels, traps, etc.. The Energy Room is the first audio product of its kind and directly relates to the function of the platform and technology. You will hear a musical presentation unlike anything you have ever experienced in your past - of this we are extremely confident. Up for a visit or wait for the reviews? Furthermore, historically you have yet to provide us any answers and/or proof whatsoever to our questions about your products. In fact the only answers we have ever received state you are not willing to answer “straw man arguments” yet you continue to demand the same from others so... Can we book your flight?
Yours truly and “to whit”,
Robert Maicks Star Sound
PS: If you really want to learn something new in audio take us up on the invitation to visit an Energy Room. Star Sound will cover the plane ticket and travel expenses. |
Hello Geoff,
You are the only one convinced Star Sound has or are overlooking a problem. Obviously you do not understand our approach to vibration management and/or product functionality or you would realize that our platforms are designed to vibrate and yes, they move because they are coupled to the flooring. The Energy Rooms™ are also direct coupled to the structural foundation so they also move ‘in rhythm’ with the earth.
Star Sound products do “NOT” Isolate.
Isolation prohibits the evacuation of resonance formed from vibration. Said resonance builds up within and on all surface areas of the chassis including circuits and all the small parts, wire, power supplies, etc., including every part and surface area of the chassis. This establishes tremendous component operational inefficiencies as this resonance also propagates on all smooth surfaces clogging all signal pathways (electrical, electromechanical and acoustic) per Coulomb’s Law.
Without a mechanical exit point this energy, caused from vibration, greatly inhibits the functionality of all individual parts of the component or loudspeaker especially when located within a vibrating environment.
Contrary to the majority of audio industry beliefs, theorems and applied concepts, our approach to vibration is to let all the parts and chassis vibrate at will. In a musical environment components and loudspeakers are going to vibrate so we decided to begin experimenting with a reverse approach to historical understanding. Our technology is based on the rapid transfer and exit of interfering energy in continuous motion via a conduit of a specific geometry and material science. Simple and basic mechanical understanding with lots of investments into a lot of steels and brasses, years of prototyping and taking a lot of studies on how various musical instruments are manufactured provided us the methodology that established Live-Vibe Technology™.
A few of us involved with Star Sound grew up in the professional sound and recording sciences industry. We were exposed to acoustic and mechanical devices built on isolation theorems, constrained layer damping, absorption and diffusion techniques so believe me when I say “we get it and we understand it”. Those approaches grew into too many variables in order to support a single geometry. Example: Your isolation approach requires different and various sized springs based on chassis weights whereas our smallest Platforms support a half ton of mass eliminating the weight management category. We continued to search for a more simplified approach to improving sonic performance especially knowing that musical sound quality is such a highly subjective yet highly sought after experience.
Say what you will about any of our products or technology as many people have since our inception however, the most important accomplishment that remains totally undeniable is product functionality. The performance is described by many as stunning audible results in all aspects of sound particularly in the “live” sense.
We placed Live-Vibe Technology inside loudspeakers and electronics chassis, built a highly successful line of equipment racking, built mechanically grounded recording and playback environments and are now marrying it to musical instruments. Each step of the way this technology rewarded us with a more musical presentation and a clientele of audiophiles, listeners and musicians that continues to grow and assist us in advancing Live-Vibe Technology.
So we are a bit different, almost opposite in fact. The sciences surrounding commercial isolation products do not apply to our means. We are patiently awaiting your next objection and you are correct - necessity is the mother of all invention but did you know that music soothes the mother... Let it Vibrate!
Robert Star Sound |
Hello folkfreak, That information was provided by our newest member who is heavily involved with seismic sciences and I believe was posted by another company associate.
The studies of seismic activity are new to our company. When establishing our technical model we addressed limiting low frequency rumble via shear waves, reflective angles and relied more on the laws of gravity and motion regarding inaudible frequency.
We have always stated and agreed energy can and will travel up into the Sistrum Platform™ despite the geometry and material science, however with the majority of energy traveling down the conductor is greater the minute energy making its way upward would not affect sound quality and to the best of our knowledge it does not. The Sistrum Platform accepts and transfers energy from ‘all’ sources and is in a constant state of motion so we never became too concerned with regards to inaudible frequencies.
The greater concern was airborne resonance. There is little known, written, studied or discussed as to the effects of airborne energy within the sound room and more importantly how it constantly bombards component chassis and metal conduits via a wide range of frequencies both audible and inaudible.
Reviewing the industry from a racking manufacturer’s standpoint, information concerning the managing of airborne resonance is all but nonexistent but we have noticed a tremendous amount more information on the sub-harmonic factors. The immediate question was simply why? Adopting vibration management to musical reproduction systems and listening environments is all about airborne resonance.
Our belief is that airborne resonance has greater disruptive factors limiting component operational efficiency and definitely affecting room environments as the acoustic sciences will easily back this statement was the major concern in comparison to sub harmonics.
We do not know everything, who does? We have individuals involved in our company who provide information to us based on their engineering or science specialty. Example: If you want to discuss a snare drum stand which is a catch and hold type of resonance device or the effects of mechanical grounding a grand piano then I am your guy. I am not the person who would have the resource information you have requested so please bear with us as we should have something for you in short order.
Thank you for your patience,
Robert Star Sound |
Hello folkfreak,
It appears you are heavily vested in vibration management and we honor you for that.
The only advice I can personally provide is stick with a single technology or methodology. If the Townshend products are providing you the greater satisfaction then shoot for replacing your current rack with one of theirs.
Modifying other designs, mixing and matching technologies, theorems and products related to vibration management usually does not end well or becomes never-ending particularly when it comes to your wallet; unless you are the type of listener who really enjoys ongoing experimentation and we also have respect for the hobbyists working through the discovery process.
Thanks for the uptick on the Townshend materials. Although in agreement with the philosophy behind their products and have little doubt they do provide a positive listening result, I do have a major problem with the testing methodology comparing a dollar’s worth of generic speaker spikes to a few thousand dollars worth of speaker stand. Add to that the methods of generating floor borne excitement via stomping on the floor and tapping on a speaker which does not usually take place within a listening environment has us a bit befuddled. This display is a strong sales and marketing tool but is too one sided with too many unknowns and variables to qualify or quantify as a meaningful scientific test. Would love to compare our Sistrum Rhythm Platforms™ which are direct coupled to the flooring in order to balance the financial outlays between the two devices but also see how the seismic reactions differ when our added mass and geometry come into play and of course hear the difference in sound performance.
Obviously I am not the best advisor when it comes to other products or combining techniques but we are definitely always up to personal auditions involving your equipment and listening room should you ever have the desire.
Hope this helps a bit,
Robert |
Hello Geoff, Agreed that damping a chassis will have an effect on the sonic outcome however it will also change the sonic of the component and in most cases change the original musical character of the product from what the designer or name brand is presenting. Speaking as a racking manufacturer and not a component designer, our products cannot fine tune, harmonically change or voice each component individually as we are dealing with an industry of various products, each one being unique in their sonic offering. Our goal was to represent all the name brands of equipment performance exactly as the innovator wanted them heard. The original presentation of the loudspeaker or component without altering their sound character was the ultimate challenge. By establishing and/or improving upon the operational efficiency of the component definitely delivers more sound quality of the product without altering the original harmonics. That specific engineering goal took over fifteen years to develop with concerns to the cello and upright bass endpins. Obviously if we altered the sound of the instrument the musician would become extremely angry and zero sales along with a poor reputation would exist among the all important music makers. We chose to use materials where the damping factors within the specific steels and brasses delivered the right dynamic as not to alter the original voice of the component or loudspeaker. This is where geometry becomes the all important factor in any design, as you are aware, too much material of any kind even that of a quality brass or steel with sink the live dynamic in a heartbeat. Once the life of the music is over-damped, it never comes back. I am sure you are aware the majority of electronic and loudspeaker manufacturers spend little if no time on understanding the mechanical sciences or vibration management technologies where the both of us are heavy participants. The one key item we do have in common is not one of science and that is until people physically experience what we do, no matter how many positive reviews that state racking and vibration management are important as any loudspeaker or amplifier choice, rapid expansion and discovery in our sector of the industry will be a tough go. No comment on Mike Green. Robert Star Sound |
“Plus there are not larger amounts of interfering energy within the component that is placed in isolation. There’s LESS interfering energy. That’s kind of the whole point. Hel-looo!” Me Kate, here is your chance to help us learn more about isolation by answering three questions of ours. Please do not post the straw man arguments avoidance reply again, just answer the questions to the best of your knowledge. 1. Prove to us via formulas or we will accept any qualified outsider opinions there are “not” “larger amounts of interfering energy within any component that is placed in isolation and there is LESS” - per our Example. Example: We do know when turning up the volume on an amplifier and witness those large transformers generating more energy, eating more AC current and generating more vibration changing into greater mechanical and electromechanical resonance at all variable frequencies per Coulomb's Law - so again why is there LESS interfering energy within your isolation model? Strange but you never refer to de’ Coulomb in any of your writings and since the law named for his formula is absolutely relevant to vibration and component operational efficiency we always thought you would bring it into play as some point or are you willing to eat your own words once directed at us - “One imagines you look the other way and hope it disappears.” http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-coulomb-friction.htmEmploying isolation techniques, one merely protects one component from interfering with another that it is in direct contact with. Isolation increases the effects of Coulomb friction by building resistance between the mating surfaces. With regards to airborne resonance, isolation principles serve much like the dielectric material in a capacitance device, essentially turning the component into a giant Resonance Capacitor. This is not the opinion of our company, Star Sound Technologies, LLC but rather that of the average graduate - level physics textbook. 2. Does isolation and heat conversion processes attenuate when that amplifier volume is turned up and where does all that increased resonance formed from greater vibration go? One thing we do know functions within the Live-Vibe Technology™ model; when a high speed mechanical grounding conduit is applied to transfer resonance to ground, when more energy is generated there is never an overload from buildup within the component hence establishing a higher level of component operational efficiency. You can research everything written “anywhere” about Sistrum Platforms and one shining star common among listener’s and reviewer’s findings is one can immediately and substantially increase volume levels of their system, hearing even more of the recording and with an effortlessness feel that never existed before. 3 Does isolation provide this listening benefit of effortless gains in volume because we have not found or read much on isolation models with that result taking place with any consistency. Admittedly the isolation models we studied and built produced some success through function but we also determined and in our opinions that heat conversion processes are a much slower go in comparison to rapid energy transfer especially when keeping up with musical reproduction and musical instruments which are quite fast and responsive as you know. Wow, as I’m finishing up with this post, I just read your latest one liner with regards to one of our members! Believe me Mr Kate, you do not want to compare your career to hers nor do you want to go head to head in a science debate as that would just be wasting the lady's time. You obviously already know everything known to mankind or at least your ego believes you do. Gee, I thought your career would be higher up the ladder by now, proving that selling a bag of rocks will only take you so far. (just my personal opinion of course). Robert Maicks Star Sound PS - Regards to you and Mike Green arguing? Must have consistently sounded like when brother Moe repeatedly hits Curly on the noggin! |
Maybe be you should just stick to insults and sophomore jokes as that appears to be your strong suit. Leave the science to someone else. Mr. Kait, In closing, we have been eating your insulting ways for far too long on this forum and just wanted to see how you would react to a taste of your own medicine, so now we know… Pick on our products, nit- pick our technology as best you can but kindly leave our good people alone. You are correct. I am a sound engineer by trade and not a scientist. Getting paid for what my talents are, using my gifts of hearing and delivering good sound definitely beats spending my time arguing earthquakes and the like. The important thing is not to argue as there is no right or wrong, just good and better methods. We are on to something excitingly new for all of audio and music so we participate here only to assist in education. We will do our best to stay on topic but...even sophomores like me reply to everyone's questions when asked. Sincerely, Robert Maicks Star Sound |
Kait - Actually, to be fair, I was not picking on your products. I was picking on your science. See the difference? Mr. Kait, You absolutely lost me with your last comment referencing picking on Star Sound’s technology. Why would anyone lacking a formal background in music or sound reproduction pick on anything proven to be musically successful, widely accepted by highly educated electrical and mechanical engineers and add to that possesses the graciousness of public support? Is your presence in audio just to aggravate people or are you out to prove you are "the best of the best of the best” relying on your aerospace background? I have read about people, who get kicks from argumentative lifestyles and have to ask, are you one of those personalities? Unfortunately my vacation is over and I must get back to more important company matters. We are still awaiting your answers to our previous technical questions with regards to vibration and science (your specialty) so please let us know if you intend to answer them so I may set time aside for review and if not… Good luck with your business and career. Robert Maicks Star Sound |
Mr. Kait, We appreciate your latest defense - the good guy bad guy thing, really? Humorous…but we were hoping for much better. You stated that you appreciate a good debate. Debates require two or more people so why is it when we direct questions regarding and/or challenging your understanding and approach to audible and inaudible interfering energy, all we ever get in return are idiotic replies such as “straw man arguments” yet no answers of any substance. My personal opinion is you enjoy debates as long as all questions are fired from your shores hence the carney term “a winner every time”! Not to be redundant and if anyone is still following this thread, our three questions directed to Mr. Kait are listed on this thread by audiopoint on 07-30-2016 8:53pm: In closing, we are here to learn. You shoved earthquakes and inaudible frequencies up our rods and we agreed to review, measure your advice and sought out a highly educated seismologist to evaluate both sides of the coin. In turn we directed questions regarding your approach and how you deal with what we have determined to be of higher importance relative to managing resonance formed from vibration i/e Coulomb friction.
We take no pride in winning a debate when there is silence from the opposing side. Robert |
Hello folkfreak, Your request was forwarded to the seismologist who provided us information on diodes related to shear waves and seismic waves. Our associate is doing us a time consuming favor here so please be a bit more patient. Geoff and I both asked for a link to an independent third party data source on how your spikes, or any other similar device could act as a mechanical diode able to isolate against seismological effects, You have yet to provide this. As far as I can tell you have brought no facts to this "debate" We never said spikes would isolate seismological effects. I believe the word used was “rejected” (the audiotweak on 07-25-2016 9:18pm). We stated there is far more energy moving down the Sistrum Platform™ towards earth than energy flowing up the conductive platform hence rejecting the majority of seismic energy rising above the gravity of earth’s ground per the angles of geometry located at the tip of the Audio Point™ and our understanding of shear waves. Analogy: Turn on a fire hydrant with the water flow wide open and put your fist in the hole - it’s a tough go. The same is true with seismic waves moving up the platform. Sistrum Platforms DO NOT ISOLATE. Isolation traps energy within the component. Without an exit, resonant energy propagates on all smooth surfaces hence establishing component operational "inefficiency" (per Coulomb's Law). Within our model the seismic energy has to rise up from the earth moving against the greater flow of energy established by geometry and material science that is rapidly moving downward supported by the laws of motion and gravity. We do not care where interfering energy comes from. It will arrive via air-borne, floor-borne and structure-borne sources regardless of any type of attempts to isolate it. Our platforms are made of conductive materials and vibrates, attracting energy from every known source. The key to function is "resonance transfer" to ground via high speed conductive pathways depending heavily on the forces of gravity. The seismic energy actually arriving upwards at the component level is so minute after battling motion, gravity and space, well in truth we never heard it so these mini earthquakes were never on our radar. We have disclosed facts on this thread related specific to the mechanical sciences for which our products and technology are based which is resonance caused from vibration related to Coulomb’s Law. We can provide as much non-proprietary information as you can digest relative to our applications. Proprietary information at this time cannot be divulged do to current US Patent searches. You can begin here: http://starsoundaudio.com/liveVibeDetails2.php?Vibration-and-Coulomb-Friction-5
Seismology has been around for some time, agreed? Live-Vibe Technology™ has been around for sixteen years so we do not know everything or have a history of scientific data supporting it. When we say its a new approach, it is just that - a new technology where we are working to prove as a science. Until the data arrives from our investment in third party testing, we can only back our claims in that we are willing to compare the performance of our products to any in today’s market - any comparisons, any products. The one leg we stand heavily on is the proof of undeniable musical performance. Again, we are working to acquire you more information. R Maicks |
Mr. Kait, as you wrote: Furthermore the energy involved with the seismic vibration is much much greater than the energy coming down towards the floor since seismic energy can move the entire building, and does move it, the everyday microseismic activity moves the building up and down, to and for, and in 3 rotational directions. So what does that have to do with musical reproduction and how does three rotational directions affect musical quality? Without decoupling techniques such a mass on spring the whole Coulomb device is moving right along with the motion of the bundling and the spikes are moving up and down right along with the motion of the building. Absolutely correct, but who ever said the device can not or should not move with the motion of the building and what does the motion of the building have to do with musical reproduction? In a concert or practice hall the instruments and musicians also move right along with the motion of the building too. There is nothing coming down the pike resembling 0-20 Hz, but there is plenty of seismic vibratin going UP the pike in that region, which includes the resonant frequencies of tonearms, cartridges, turntable platters, CD laser assemblies circa 8-12 Hz. I’ve always heard what goes up must come down…so do the rising seismic waves come back to earth, do they change into airborne resonance, does any portion of energy return to earth via gravity does any of that leftover energy then affect the component residing on springs? Does this also have an affect on component operational efficiency?
My uncle flew in project Sageburner managed by Commander Jim Lovell. These guys were very real and heroic but other than experiencing true low end frequency, I am not sure if this project or the LIGO project has anything to do with sound reproduction. Our model is “not” a seismic vibration isolation system and we do not know if gravity waves affect sound waves or at what frequencies or if these waves are even part of the “Audible Range of Human Hearing.” We are still learning... HALCRO states:
All this crap about science and not one word about musical reproduction techniques. Not one word as to why or how avoiding earthquakes is good for sound. Not one word or 'question answered' as to why INAUDIBLE seismic waves prohibit the function of musical systems or musical instruments, not one word about these sub-harmonic waves affecting pitch or harmonics and someone please tell me how the freaking LIGO project relates to music reproduction? Just slamming down the age old sciences... lacking any vision as to the future of sound or the possibility that a new technology is at hand - nothing but age old arguments and AGAIN, I am not a scientist or physicist nor would I ever want to be. BUT,Put me behind a concert reinforcement system (FOH or monitor mix) or sit me down in any recording studio and I will show you and teach you what good sound is and what all that mumbo jumbo is all about. Invite me to your house and I will help show you where your system might be lacking and physically demonstrate how to improve upon it. I will also point out your system’s strengths and am also fairly accomplished with the acoustic sciences and applications as well. That is my science - the science of sound. Our technology is quite functional, proven over time and is “scalable” from the mounting of a resistor to a component or loudspeaker chassis to equipment racking to structural room environments and yes it improves and adapts to musical instruments too. Isolation and spring theory never went in music where Star Sound has already gone (just my opinion of course). Say what you will, call us names as they did back in 1999, you do not have to believe in anything we do, products that we build, product performance we generate or the discovery of a new technology as we know fully the direction our company is headed. My guess is that all the reviewers who own our products are full of crap too? Funny… grown men arguing, some with textbook experience, some with practical experience and some without any. I sat behind this Star Sound desk for sixteen years working to improve audio system performance and solving problems with thousands of audiophiles, music lovers, musicians and listeners. You cannot buy an education like this from any science or research college. Sixteen years in the school of hard knocks and my teachers who are my peers are now our customers. Snake oil peddlers? I take strong offense to… uncalled for and obviously shows that we have never met or conversed before. So gents, are we up for a personal visit? Are we up for a product comparison or listening test? Are we up for an audition of our technology in the privacy of your home? Are we up to visiting an Energy Room and hear a presentation that will last in your memory for a good long time? Are we up to learning more about sound - I am, and my phone is always open. In addition, I promise to keep my ass out of science and will gladly pay our engineers overtime to participate here. If provoked, this old snake bites! Regards, Robert Star Sound Engineers innovate and build things then scientists figure out why they work. |
Hello nkonor,
It is often believed that equipment positioned outside the loudspeaker environment is not subject to vibration. You will improve the sound of the system by using two rooms as the electronics package is ‘not’ subjected to the majority of airborne resonance generated from the speakers, walls, floor and ceiling however all electronic equipment generates vibrations that forms detrimental resonance.
As you may know, vibrating parts such as transformers, power supplies, and voltage rectifiers along with the use of alternating current vibrates and generates electric and electromechanical resonance that builds and clogs all signal pathways. Even cables including the ones connecting the speaker system are also a conduit where resonance forms propagates and travels to and through all parts of the system.
It is impossible to eliminate vibration in a musical environment. Resonance will form regardless of any anti-vibration or pro-vibration products available in industry today. All one can do is manage it and this is where the confusion, differences in opinions, real world “audio” arguments and products become relevant to the listening experience.
The two room system is a very solid approach if you have the space. Keep working towards managing your electronics package as it will always pay dividends.
On a more positive note – “Without vibration there is no music”.
Robert Star Sound |
Mr. Kait,
I believe you should do more research on vibration specifically in the studies of sound applications and musical instruments. In every recording studio and concert venue where I engineered sound, anti-vibration designs provided a deader (not quieter) listening space which always fatigued me. The facilities with hard surfaces always presented a live dynamic outcome when mixing or listening and that ‘live vibrant energy’ kept me totally responsive through extremely long sessions.
Vibration is not an enemy when related to sound and musical reproduction; it is a ‘constant’, very similar to how the human ear works.
Vibration contains all the dynamics and harmonic structures listeners seek to hear. There are properties, a phenomenon, formed from vibration that build and layer on “all” vibrating surfaces. These heavier amplitudes of energy forms resonance and propagates on “all” smooth surfaces.
If you research Coulomb’s Law and applied it to the recording sciences and sound, it might lead to a greater understanding.
What do we seek as listeners - live dynamics or dead harmonics?
You stated: And actually, now that I think about it there are even other cones and pointed things that are better than Audiopoints, such as for example Golden Sound's NASA grade ceramic Super DH cones. Things have changed quite a bit since thirty years ago; I think it’s fair to say.
Your background and education is in aerospace so we are certain some bias exists in that statement but just to be fair, you're listening assessment of Audio Points™ is meaningless when comparing products that cost tens ($$) of dollars to others costing in the hundreds of dollars ($$$). We are much more in favor of comparing devices of the same financial investment values. Our cost comparison product at this level would be a fourteen pound mechanical grounding plane we call the Sistrum Apprentice Platform™. We are extremely confident should you ever wish to compare ours to theirs. The differences in performance are measurable, highly audible and will sound much livelier.
Agreed, a lot has changed in the past thirty years. The Audio Point still remains an Industry benchmark for very affordable vibration management yet has evolved into a much higher standard of performance when applying greater mass, geometry and physics hence the family of Sistrum Platforms.
You stated: While you fellows have actually done, by dismissing vibration isolation, is obtain what we refer to as a local maximum.
Not sure who you are referring to as “we” in your statement. Is it you and who else? I am sure the majority of listeners and readership does not understand the term “local maximum” so here is a brief definition provided by Wikipedia:
‘In mathematical analysis, the maxima and minima (the respective plurals of maximum and minimum) of a function, known collectively asextrema (the plural of extremum), are the largest and smallest value of the function, either within a given range (the local or relative extrema) or on the entire domain of a function’...
Please make your point more clear as to what it is we have actually done or accomplished?
In closing: One of our engineers examined your ‘Isolation Springs’ and noted there is a “shear component” as well as a “compression component” with a single metal conduit providing a “primary mechanical grounding conductor” which is very similar to our technical approach. Are you absolutely sure you products are actually isolating and not transferring resonance?
Once again, our understanding of resonance management does “NOT” dismiss the theories behind “vibration isolation”. We just disagree on the philosophy and principles behind isolating (storing) resonant energy within the component, loudspeaker or musical instrument without a mechanical means providing an exit pathway for the heavier amplitudes of detrimental resonance. Our ears do not listen to electron microscopes.
Robert Star Sound
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