Emo dumps Carver, the Carver site is down.

Well, gifted as he is, Carver has been living off startups for some time.

Can't help but think Emotiva will take Carver's ideas and way of making his product only to have them made more inexpensively in China.

I'm proud owner of Sunfire. This amp beats the clap out of substantially higher priced and heavy ones.

good news for potential new customers, suck for current owners.

Wow, that was fast. My quess is now that they own the rights to the circuit designs? they will copy them and release them at a much lower price point after having them made in China.

Who thinks this was a bait and switch plan all along?

I don't think it was a bait and switch but it could be me being naive. That and my perspective is coming in from a consumer not a dealer who was mistreated. I've bought Emotiva gear in the past and it has been a pleasant non problematic experience. I just think this was Emotiva overreaching again, them not being able to make the acquisition work or handle it properly. Emotiva has so many products now and some of the quality has been so so from what I've read. Sometimes I wish they would just concentrate on a couple of things rather than spread themselves thin.

Bob's a workaholic, will he go back to selling hand-built tube amps on ebay? If Emo owns the patents, he'll have to modify his designs.

they will copy them and release them at a much lower price point after having them made in China.

Good! Can't beat lower prices with same quality.

That and my perspective is coming in from a consumer not a dealer who was mistreated

Dealers just take your order and everything is drop ship these days ... don't stock anything so not sure how dealers are mistreated but just lose a product line.

Emotiva deserves more credit than it gets . It was probally doomed at the beginning . Bob Carver as talented as he is , needs to be on his own .

Jakeman, agree on all points. I hope Bob left without losing anything, but I'll bet Emotiva from the beginning wanted to get a look at his designs.

but I'll bet Emotiva from the beginning wanted to get a look at his designs.

Not just look but they actually bought the designs.

I hope Bob left without losing anything

Emotiva paid for the company so Bob left with $$? I don't understand playing Bob Carver as a victim.

Emotiva is really losing credibility. They tanked with TacT. They tanked with Sherbourn, and now they've tanked with Carver. They said last summer, that was it. No more sales. Everybody can pay full price because our prices are so good. And now they've just started another sale! These guys keep changing their minds so often you can't count on what they say, and the "no sales" promise now just looks like a marketing ploy to get people to buy instead of waiting for the sale price.

They really need to simplify their business and shore up what they're having challenges with instead of complicating the path to profits by all these failed investments.

How about investing in a processor that isn't buggy? And releasing it on time, without pre-release price increases as with the XMC.

Nothing strange there. I assume that Emotiva bought Carver (the company) and kept what they wanted (Brand name, designs, supplier relationships, any one of a hundred other "assets"), and cut loose what they didn't want, including Carver (the man). Happens all the time.

+1 Martykl. Whether you like the guy or his equipment or not (no opinion here) you gotta hope that he learned from Mark Levinson's experience and kept the rights to use his own name.

Shouldn't we be hearing more from Emotiva and/or Bob Carver about what is going on? Why should we have to guess?

This does not make me want to deal with Emotiva or Carver.

Aaahhh....poor Bobby..a victim of Corporate manipulation..why he didn't even know what was coming!!..Yeah right!..of course he already had all this planned out!..45 year's later and Bob is still naive as too what's going on around him in the business world?..GIVE ME A BREAK!!!..I have never seen so many living in denial over who Bob Carver really is!...WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!...

If Emotiva bought Carver, what happens to the US dealers who carry the Carver amps exclusively? How pissed off are they?

I did not play Bob as a victim..you missed my point..I am satirizing him as a "victim"..you are the victim's..Bob is 69 years of age and this is another business ploy of his to take down more cash as he retire's..all this was his game plan ahead of time, but it appears it still hasn't sunken in to anyone's skull yet....

Here's the answer...1/3 down the page. So, yeah Bob sold the company.

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17883&start=30

Best amps by Carver were his solid state amps, Sunfire Signature and the Carver Lighstar 1 and 2 which were designed by Jim Croft.

10-20-13: Audiozen
I did not play Bob as a victim...

Check the date of my post, 2 days before yours so NOT responding to your post.

Conjecture, speculation, no relevant current information, topped with unsubstantiated personal speculation is senseless but have fun.

As customers all we know is the Bob Carver LLC web site announced the sale to Emotiva with little to no information regarding future support of warranted products already sold, any terms of the sale of the company, its assets, intellectual property, or design.

Emotiva announced the purchase and would move production from Kentucky to their Tennessee location. Emotiva would market Carver tube products under their professional line of products. A personal correspondence on 10/08/2013 Emotiva agreed to replace a bad tube if I would submit a product serial number. On 10/16/2013 Laufner made the statement below on his Emotiva Lounge forum. (If anybody has any other facts or quotes please post.)

My two Phase Linear amps endured nine years of extremely hard road use and were sold in working order. Bob Carvers other endeavors and life issues had no bearing on my recent purchase. The tube product is well built and sounds wonderful, I have no regrets. I do have concerns regarding future support.

[[["Hey all,

To clear everything up regarding Emotiva, Bob Carver, and tube amps in
general, here's an update.

First, yes, our professional relationship with Bob Carver is at an end. I
was excited to have had the opportunity to have worked with him.

Second, we're absolutely committed to making tube amps (and other
products) under the Emotiva name, and they're coming to our website in
short order. You'll see them listed under a separate series, like we've
done with the Pro products.

Finally, thank you for bearing with us in this transitional time. We
simply need to work through some details before you see tube amps for
sale on emotiva.com, and we maintain our greatest respect for Bob Carver
and his work, as well as our commitment to providing exciting tube amps
with exceptional value and performance under the Emotiva name.

All the best,
Big Dan"]]]

He's responding to my post. I never played Bob as a victim; he always lands on his feet and I'm sure got paid. I meant maybe he gave up some intellectual property and then saw that his product was not a good fit for the Emotiva business model. Maybe his designs are already being copied in China. It's all speculation, and anyway he's selling a tube amp right now on ebay which is his hobby.
And then there's the issue of him retiring with a new wife, he's not a victim.

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I sure hope Emotiva bought the designs for his 900 watt 4/chassis monoblocks. Bob made a few sets of 21st century updated version of the award-winning Silver Nine tube amps. They were on the drawing board to be released by his company.
.

I wonder who will handle existing 7 yr-warranty on my VTA180 -
Bobcarver.com is no longer existed

Maybe here? http://www.carveraudiorepair.com/

This site is 3rd party who handle Sunfire Corp. solid state products.
I don't think it handle Carver Tube Amp - and who will pay for the repair bill?

- and who will pay for the repair bill?

Unless Emotiva markets the specific line, I would not necessarily expect them to handle warranty issues. This seems to be a little different relationship than say, when Conrad Johnson purchased McCormack because they immediately continued to carry and sell the line, and they took over warranty service, I believe. You should contact them and ask.
Aren't tubed amps relatively easy to diagnose and fix, unless you fry something irreplacable like the transformers Bob wound special? There are several noted repair folks around the country who should be able to help if you ever need it.

At the end of the day, the acquisition really isn't the relevant issue here.

Barring some clever deal structure (unlikely to be effective, I'd think), when Emotiva acquired Carver, LLC, I'd assume that they inherited Carver LLC's' liabilities attendant to warranty service. They would be on the hook, unless/until they bankrupted Carver, LLC (very likely). In that case, it's up to the courts to determine how much Emotiva is on the hook for warranty claims. I'm sure the banruptcy court will try to protect consumers, to the extent possible.

But, don't blame Emotiva. Presumably, Bob Carver cashed out on the sale. Even if he hadn't sold, he might have bankrupted the company, too. You'd be in the same boat.

Whenever you buy from a small company with limited financial resources, you run the risk of bankruptcy - whether via the then owner, or any future owner.

Thuan, are you having a problem with your 180s? We're both in the same boat. Aside from their presentation one of the reasons I purchased these amps is their relatively simple construction. I didn't anticipate these circumstances but in the event of a repair I feel confident I can find someone to service them.

The loss of the attractive warrantee sucks. I think Marty paints a picture of what may be in front of Carver customers. There may be so few of us that both Carver and fat Dan could simply walk away with no relevant responsibility.

There might be a chance that one could bring the dealer into small claims.

Vicdamone - I don't see how the dealer could be found to be legally responsible since product warranties are provided by the product manufacturer, not the seller.

As an owner of a pair of 180's bought pre-Emo, my dealer stated to me yesterday that Emo is honoring the 7 year repair warranty of anything related to BC, LLC aquistion, ie 180, 305, etc. At least that is the situation for now. Its interesting because when the dealer initially called Emo, the "lady in the office" stated, "we no longer have anything to do with BC". Obviously not happy with that response he inquired deeper and got the assurance of the warranty coverage. In any event, what should be made available is a full set of schematics, so if the whole warranty issue goes up in flames, people, who are so inclined, can get these repaired by any reputable service technician.

Jay, thanks for checking into the warranty issue. Frankly, I'd be surprised if emo even had a soldering station let alone the chops to trouble shoot a problem.

Well, the warranty support...we shall see. Hope I never have to go there. I have had mine for a year now with no issues. They drive my Legacy Focus SE's with ease, and mate well with my DeHavilland UV3 preamp. Another tidbit of info, that maybe well known by now, is currently these amps are no longer in production. By ANYONE. Speculation is Emo may come out with thier own version (who cares) and/or BC may RE-introduce them in 2014.Convoluted to say the least. Maybe when the dust settles, schematics can be obtained. Hey when I bought my now vintage Pioneer gear back in the day the schematics came with the owners manual!

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Vic, I have to chuckle at that one. I was thinking the same thing.
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If you want its schematic - I found it here and use it to locate coupling caps - scroll down to see it

http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherforum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8690

I heard that Carver dumped Emo, not the other way around. The dealer for Carver is now Underwoodhfi. Here is the new Carver site:

http://bobcarvercorp.com/

It looks like Bob is back with his original tube designs, only re-branded. Plus the Silver Seven 700s are available.
I would say that is good news.