Electromagnetic fields. Be forewarned, this involves science...

Bang, bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down.

I don't have an hour for stuff I already know by heart. Anyone bothered to watch the whole thing care to summarize? perkri?

I like science a lot. But I don't believe it just because someone says it is science. In this case, the first several minutes are history, not science. At nearly an hour long, I'll watch later

It revolves around proving the existence of EMW, and how their presence can be predicted mathematically via some rather complex equations brought to light by "the silver hammer".

It helps to illustrate the effects of EMW on their surroundings. Helps to shed light on why things that measure the same, may not sound the same. Like, cables...

@artemus_5 

Wonder how many movies you have missed out on by abandoning early. From your experience, I gather science only exists in the now, and not in history...

It helps to illustrate the effects of EMW on their surroundings. Helps to shed light on why things that measure the same, may not sound the same. Like, cables...

How does it illustrate why things might measure the same but not sound the same? 

@pekri

How do you get to your conclusion based on the words and context I wrote?
The first part was the history of some science., Not science. And I don’t have time to watch it now.

EMW you say. What pray tell are EMW?

EMW you say. What pray tell are EMW?

I presume ElectroMagnetic Waves. 

@artemus_5

My apologies. Was out of order.

EMF - electromagnet waves.

Spend too much time texting w 14yr old daughter. Short form is king, and doesn’t always work. 
You can see in the movie how an ac signal generates waves in a predictable pattern along the conductor. With the complex waves being generated by an audio signal going through a wire, those waves are going to, in turn, have an impact on the signal passing through the wire. That “feedback loop”, is going to change the signal. Not measurable I suspect because we are not yet measuring the right parts of the signal.

Yes well it helps to be a little more specific than a teenage girl.

Whatever. Thanks. That is what I been saying for like years now.

Didn't read the article.Didn't need to..Ask ANY Master or LONG time J-man electrician about Electromagnetic fields around high voltage transformers & their unique ability to find the TINIEST grounded path within arms reach...

Thanks perki thats an excellent video. Even though the video is 10 years old it makes clear quantum physics, superconductors and electron manipulation are where the current science is. Electro-magnetics have been studied for literally a 100 years. Transformers are based on electro-magnetic fields, for instance. I think people forget audio is simply electrical signals operating at different frequencies. 

EMF - electromagnet waves

AFAIK, electromagnetic field is just a magnetic field created by the flow of electric current while electromagnetic wave is the field that has enough energy to leave the wire and travel in space.

@artemus_5  & https://forum.audiogon.com/users/perkri...

Precisely.  Obvious, actually, from what's been discussed 'here' and 'elsewhere'....the composition of said cable Will have an effect of some sort.
Subtle in many ways...eq, if you will, on a level which will be perceived by one or the many others in varying ways.

Pick your perception. *S* 😏

@ perkri

You said:

You can see in the movie how an ac signal generates waves in a predictable pattern along the conductor. With the complex waves being generated by an audio signal going through a wire, those waves are going to, in turn, have an impact on the signal passing through the wire. That “feedback loop”, is going to change the signal. Not measurable I suspect because we are not yet measuring the right parts of the signal.

The ac signal does not pass through the wire. The ac signal energy travels in the spaces between the wires in the form of an EM Wave.



Ralph Morrison:

The laws I want to talk about are the basic laws of electricity. I’m not
referring to circuit theory laws as described by Kirchhoff or Ohm but the
laws governing the electric and magnetic fields. These fields are
fundamental to all electrical activity whether the phenomenon is lightning,
electrostatic display, radar, antennas, sunlight, and power generation,
analog or digital circuitry.


These laws are often called Maxwell’s equations. Light energy can be
directed by lenses, radar energy can be directed by waveguides and the
energy and power frequencies can be directed by conductors. Thus we direct energy
flow at different frequencies by using different materials.


For utility power the energy travels in the space between the conductors not
in the conductors. In digital circuits the signal and energy travel in the
spaces between the traces or between the traces and the conducting surfaces.
Buildings have halls and walls. People move in the halls not the walls.
Circuits have traces and spaces, signals and energy moves in the spaces not
the traces.

Ralf Morrison:

Storing or moving energy.

There is a common misconception that signals are carried in conductors. Somehow this association crosses over to the idea that conductors carry both signals and energy. A few simple calculations can show that this is a false idea. Consider a 50-ohm transmission line carrying a 5-volt logic signal. The initial current at switch closure is 500 mA. A typical trace is a a gram-mole of copper that has 6 x 1023 copper atoms (Avogadro’s number). Each atom can contribute one electron to current flow. Knowing the charge on an electron makes it easy to show that the average electron velocity for 500 mA is a few centimeters per second. What is even more interesting is that only a trillion electrons are involved in this current flow. This means that only one electron in a trillion carries the current. This also says that the magnetic field that moves energy is not located in the conductors. The only explanation that makes sense is that energy in the magnetic field must be located in the space between two conductors.Conductors end up directing energy flow - not carrying the energy.

https://www.electronics-related.com/showarticle/1165.php  


poynting Vector
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynting_vector


Here is a video for you to watch. The guy does a good job explaining the E (Electric Field), B (Magnetic Field), Poynting vector, and the electromagnetic wave.

Audio signals would be to the far left of the spectrum.

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/light-waves/introduction-to-light-waves/v/electromagneti...

.

If something measures the same but doesn't sound the same it means your measurements are still stuck in the middle of the 20th century.

If you can hear it there should be a way to devise a measurement for it but that does not mean every measurement has been devised.

We give the handful of measurements we use in the popular press which have been around for decades as the limits of science and engineering.  That this is all that can be done but it isn't.

Remember Bob Carvers claim that he could make his SS amps sound like any tube amp? The "Carver Challenge" it was called if I remember correctly.
He did this by playing the source through his SS amp and the tube amp he was trying to emulate, inverted one signal and summing them together. After summing the signals together the output was just the difference between the two amps. By carefully tuning the output of his SS amp it was impossible to tell the difference between the two amps in a blind test. Made a big uproar in the high end world of audio.
Why not do the same test with interconnects? Sample the signal going in and the signal coming out. Invert one signal and sum the signals together. Any difference would show clearly.
BillWojo