Dynaudio focus 360

kennyc

1,836 posts

05-12-2025 at 05:21pm 

...right combination of power and current.

Agree you're on the right track- ample availability of current needed for high energy bass

Yes,when I explained to the gentlemen at dynaudio that the vocals and midrange  instruments seemed to drop at certain times,he said that it might be because there isn't enough available current for second or two.

Thanks

I am confused. How would it not?

My experience, @gano , is that it most certainly does, and also that it is not only about wpc and current.  However, there seem to be some here and quite a few on audio asylum that will tell you it is all about the speakers and anyone who tries to tell you that what's in front (of the speakers) can make a big difference is trying to sell snake oil.

@immatthewj oh, I understand. I agree with you.

@twangy57 

A few years ago I welcomed a PrimaLuna EVO 100 Tube Preamplifier to my rig and ended up with a similar situation that you have - a pairing issue. Voicing was slightly veiled on some tracks, and generally speaking, most tracks had the lead singer in the background, rather than forward - or upfront. 

Like your McInstosh, the PrimaLuna required that the amplifier's input impedance be at least 10 times higher than the preamp's output impedance. And like your McIntosh, the PrimaLuna was 10K...so 100K was where my amp needed to be.

As it was at the time, I was using an NAD C275BEE. This amp had both fixed and variable inputs. In the fixed mode, the impedence was 10K, while the variable input (full) was 100K. 

I would love to tell you that as soon as I switched to full variable input everything changed for the better, but it did not. While it certainly increased the quality of the sound, it was not where I knew it should be. Still had some issues with vocals and bass was good but a little muddy.

I believed at the time- and still do- that the issue was the dampening factor. DF measures the amplifier's ability to control a speaker's movement after a signal stops. DF is calculated as: Speaker Impedance / (Amplifier Output Impedance + Cable Resistance).

The NAD c275BEE DF vs. frequency is typical of most solid-state power amplifiers: high at low frequencies, then declining throughout the audioband. Hence, the sound was bettered as the volume was turned up. The lower the output impedance of the amplifier, the higher the DF, so this is what you would have been experiencing with the Adcom. 

Also, adding speaker cable resistance will lower the DF, so while I am not wanting to get into a cable conversation, it's important to use good quality, low-resistance cables. I don't think my AudioQuest 5 cable was causing the issue or adding to it, but it is possible that your cables may be compounding the problem for you. Don't rule out a chain reaction.

That is a lot to digest. And it is at those times when it is best to try not to fight the power, but to simply start over. I sold the PrimaLuna, upgraded my amplifier and even changed out speakers, cable, etc. I succeeded in getting the sound I craved by ditching a bad partnership that started by simply using what gear I could afford in hopes of hitting pay dirt. I was merely hoping to get lucky.

I am not so young either, so it is best to get to the point of bliss sooner, rather than later. Save time; do not waste it on poor pairings.

I think it was the Pass Labs CEO who states that building a system starts with buying the best speakers you can afford. I guess you have done that with the Dynaudio's, so work backwards from there as you seem to be doing. Keep the DAC. Get a good phono Preamp to go with the Rega (a $400 Rega MM or MC phono preamp will sound much better than your preamp in the McIntosh). Use good cables (Rega sells a $150 low cap TT cable to go between preamp and table). But the guts of your system - your amp/preamp pairing that serves the speakers the best is paramount. Good luck.

For many years now, a simple (well maybe not so simple to some) modification of mine was to replace the power cords on gear. Yes, go inside the component, remove the factory cord, and hotwire with a much heavier gauge power cord (gear that did not have an IEC power inlet). I mentioned to the OP changing out the cord of his Adcom 545. I have done this with hundreds, yes hundreds, of power amps (other gear as well), and the improvements in sq, in every case, was substantial. Generally, I used 12 gauge cable from the THD or Lowes, sold by the foot, alongside a high quality 3way plug, creating a 2ndary ground. Why it made such as difference? Non restriction of current to the power supply, which is what I was told by an engineer. This one mod was incredible back then. Now, we have ac IEC inlets, and with power amps specifically, huge improvements can be had with power cable upgrades. Anyone who says power cords do not make a difference, has either never tried one, or cannot hear it through their system. My best, MrD.

Hey Twangy one thing I will say is there are just some speakers that like to be pushed harder and played louder to sound their best. I remember reading some reviews of Dynaudio speakers back in the day that mentioned this. I don't have much experience with Dynaudio outside shows so not sure if they are still that way. A better amp will certainly help you get better sound.

@twangy57  -   Over the last couple of weeks and multiple treads on speakers, amps, streamers, etc., with all the recommendations, information, suggestions, etc., that have come them...  (whether they are Good, Bad, or Ugly - queue up a picture of Clint Eastwood here  LOL  ) ....

I'm now curious as to how do you think you should proceed?  Where is your head at?  Are there any key, bottom line questions do you still need answered?

- Jeff

To all. I suppose the next thing for twangy57, is to receive his new, to him, power amp, the mighty Conrad Johnson Premier 350 stereo amp, an amp that will easily do the job driving his Dynaudio speakers. Considering he has not listened to the speakers before purchasing them, or the CJ amp, I believe he will have some fun. I do have a few concerns. The MX110....it might be a bit noisy because the amp has a higher than normal input sensitivity, around 1V. The amp takes a long time to break in. If listening to the system daily, I would encourage to leave the amp on 24/7 (as I do with all of my ss gear). This would require a preamp left on all the time as well, something most tube users do not do, and I understand why. I am excited for twangy57. The owners manual is available online to download.....remember, the amp is phase inverting. My best, MrD.

goodlistening64

I’am glad you made that point about the impedance.

Yes ,I believe you when you say the  impedance mis-match is probably not really the main problem.

I do know that when I replaced my Adcom pre with the Mac,I loved what it did to the vocals on most of the music I listen to.

And that is with the mis-match of the Mac pre and my Adcom amp.

I have found that by moving the speakers closer to the front wall and turning the bass down on the preamp that 90% of the problem I was having with the vocals has gone away.

I guess I'am saying I know you are right about not counting on a better impedance match to solve all issue’s,and I’am not.

I have been reaching out to owners of these speakers and they say the extra currant should fix that last 10% of the issue with any weakness in the midrange

I really like the way it sounds now,and see no reason to change the preamp at this time.

If I find I don’t like the sound of it later I already have someone that wants to buy this preamp/tuner.

I also will take your advice on exploring a cable upgrade.

I was wanting to wait until I got the new amp,but I guess I should at least start looking now.

Thanks again for clarifying the impedance issue.

mrdecibel

I can see your point,.

I always wondered why on even expensive guitar amp's they never seem to put anything better than a run of the mill IEC power cord.

gano

I almost forgot to ask you about damping factor.

Could you give me a example of what mine is or what it should be?

My speakers are 4 ohm and the output impedance of the Adcom is rated down to 4 ohms,as far as the resistance of my cables I don't know.Just figure towards the high end of the spectrum.

Thanks

mrdecibel

I know you are probably correct in saying a this amp will show how noisy a old Mac can be.

I called Conrad Johnson just to make sure I could get this serviced down the road,and I was pleasantly surprised.

Someone picked up the phone on the 3rd ring.

I asked to speak to customer service and he said I.am the head of the service dept. can I help.

I asked about setting parts or service for the amp and was told they have a ample stock of any part for the amp.

I also asked him about the matching my old Mac to this amp,He said it will work fine and the high input impedance was chosen to reduce the noise when using with tube pre-amps.

He said try the Mac,but he said I would be amazed if I paired it with a Premire 17 or 18 CJ pre-amp as it was designed to complement this very amp.

When I described the earlier problem I was having ,he said it was probably both the amp and the cables.

I was told the Adcom does not have the currant to really power a somewhat inefficient speaker at 4ohms,and cheap cables will just make it worse.

He also said this amp is the one they get the most requests to do a reissue of.

Anyway,it was nice to be treated with respect,and without being told to get the latest model.

Thanks

jeffbij

I have received so much great information,and I have taken notes trying to put in a logical format to have a practical check list.

Well I know its a little late for that.

I have looked at lot of the suggestions for amps given,and most of the newer amps do not either have the correct impedance or currant to work with the speakers and pre-amp I now have.

Some have said get rid of the Mac and then you will have so many more options.

I really like the sound of this pre-amp,and since making adjustments as far as speaker location and just listening to lot of different music and realizing I can turn the bass way down with these speakers and I will get much more vocal clarity,I have come to the conclusion that I could be happy with everything just the way it is.

I will probably try the CJ amp to see if it will sound as good as I think,and if it doesn't I will sell it and try something else.

I going to sell a lot of my guitar gear so maybe I can get one of those sweet modern amps next.

I really appreciate all the help 

you seem to know a good deal about the damping factor and impedance compatibility, I unfortunately don't.

I think Dyna speakers are very good at a few things, and not that hard to drive. I forgot about another great match: Musical Fidelity. They are a bit hard to look at, the newer models but very clean and powerful sound.

@twangy57  -  As I mentioned before, the main indicator to identify a high current amp is does the rated wattage double as you drop from 8 ohm to 4 ohm.  There are plenty of "modern" amps that are available.  But, as you noted, the impedance requirement is definitely limiting your options.

Keep working on adjusting the speaker placement.  It can take a lot of time and experimentation to get it right.  Also keep in mind that room acoustical treatments (which can be as simple as a pillow in the corners or a couple of book shelves) will affect the sound.  If you are having to turn down the bass, that is usually a indication that either placement needs work or you have some room issues.

I think you should try the CJ amp.  It's not really an antique, just make sure it is functioning properly.  If needed you can send it to CJ in the Wash DC area and they will check it out and fix it if necessary. They are a great company to work with. It will be a significant upgrade to the Adcom.

One last thing, I would strongly recommend getting a stand alone phono preamp to use instead of the one built into the Mac.  You don't have to spend huge money there.  There are plenty of choices in the $400 to $600 dollar range that should be a noticable improvement.  (Even the Schiit Mani at $149 might be a step up and worth a try.)

In the end, going forward, take your time, do your research, and be methodical in evaluating and testing.  And enjoy the music!

(Oh, by the way... current is spelled with an e, not an a.  ...Mom was an English teacher... lol  )

Good luck.

-Jeff

jeffbij

Thanks Jeff,

I have been  listening for a least a couple hours a day since getting these speakers and the tidal streaming.

I have to agree I should at least get a standalone phono preamp,

A lot of Rega users don't really like there MM cartridges from what I have read. I have the Exact,which isn't the best or the worse from the things I have read.

I will have to decide if changing to MC would be better considering my system and budget.

I have been enjoying this learning experience.

I think the one thing I never realized,is how much the recording quality of the music maters.

I was listening to steely Dan Aja yesterday,a recording that I thought I heard enough of to last the rest of my life and can't believe how great it sounds through these speakers.

So I'am already enjoying listening more then I have in a long time.

Thanks again.

gano

I didn't know anything until about damping factors or amp output current,until I was schooled on it here.

From what I have been told it was the focus floor standing speakers that like a lot of current.

I think Musical Fidelity slipped thru the cracks.

I know I wrote it down to check,and a lot of folks like them.

Thanks for reminding me.

@twangy57 

The original Exact cartridge was panned. The Exact 2 is excellent. If you have a P6 and it came installed with the Exact, it is most likely the 2 version. 

I had the Exact 2 on a P6 and it sounded great. Real sweet sounding, something my Ania lacks. I owned numerous MM carts before the Exact and the Exact was by far the best.

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but the Mac phono preamp would be easily bested by Rega's least expensive phono preamp.

goodlistening64

Yes,I have the p6 with the exact 2.

I will look into a phono pre-amp once I decide if I ’am going to keep the Mac pre-amp or not.

I have been listening to 75% streaming as I don’t have much vinyl that is in good condition.

Thanks