DSP? Does it really do that much???

You can lead a horse to water.....

Here is a fairly easy thing to try in Roon that can deliver big results and demonstrate the power of DSP done well in a particular application.

Can you listen to Roon with headphones? If so what model? For that model find a convolution filter file for it here AutoEQ Web | Results | Recommended (killdozer.uk), download it in a location accessible to your Roon core/server, and set up Roon DSP to use the file when listening with the headphones. Let us know how it turns out.

Don’t be afraid of the word "filter". It’s just a word. Filter done right = good. Filter done wrong =bad.

I use 5 of these for 5 different headphone models, all with positive results, to varying degrees from marginal to massive, ie good quality cheaper headphones run off a well matched headphone amp now sound more like quality headphones that would cost you a whole lot more..

@emergingsoul There isn’t a system on earth that couldn't benefit from prudent use of DSP, because there’s no perfect room, and there are no perfect transducers. Not at any price. With that frame of mind, why did you buy the thing in the first place? Did you not look into what would be required to get the best results beforehand?

If you wanted honest, experienced user feedback on DSP, you got it, at least from a couple of us. However, it’s beginning to sound as if all you want to do is play devil’s advocate. I’m out. Have a nice day.

The problem is working with these DSP interfaces when you want to tweak it. If it’s part of an AV processor god help you.

On roon, which I have, I see all the complicated and convoluted changes you can make and quite frankly I’m not sure it’s worth all that. And then it’s being filtered which clearly is not a good thing to do.

Seems dsp may be a value for a lower cost system that is trying to reach toward improved quality but to a higher quality fairly revealing system if you put a DSP filter on it it won't sound very good and it's very similar to throwing a blanket over your speakers.

Tech dive...

Under the covers, DSP converts the digital music signal from time to frequency domain. Now in frequency domain there is a data point for as many frequencies as needed (more needed the higher the resolution) and the signal processing algorithms can now manipulate or transform each frequency as needed.

A simple case would be a volume control. The amplitude of the signal at all frequencies is either increased or decreased by the same amount at all frequencies. Simple addition and subtraction.

Then it gets more complicated from there. A digital equalization operation might focus a boost of a certain magnitude at a certain frequency and control the range of frequencies around that impacted (Q).

Towards the more complex end, you have a room correction algorithm that automatically determines what to adjust at each frequency based on measurements of the room acoustics taken by a microphone.

So you can see how powerful DSP is. Vendors might apply it under the covers in their gear to help better achieve a desired reference sound or perhaps more unique "house" sound or users can optionally do their own tweaking as needed. Dynamite stuff!

Another cool application I can cite is DSP built into active monitors. I have a pair of tiny Vanatoo active speakers that has DSP built in. Why? it allows the sound of the tiny speakers to be tweaked right out of the box to provide results that are beyond what would otherwise be possible with such tiny speakers. I came across Vanatoo at a high end show a few years back where the audiophiles were huddled in mass and aghast at the sound coming out of a pair of tiny $600 speakers. Obviously, I was also quite impressed and bought a pair. One of the best sounds possible these days for a mere $600, and it will probably only get even better over time as the application of DSP technology continues to evolve!

I've never heard a signal processor that I liked. They add artifacts to the music that are more egregious than the problems they were meant to sort out.

Agree best approach is let the DSP at hand do its thing first and then "tweak" the sound from there to one’s preference.

You can do that in Roon DSP for example by defining mutliple filters that all work together, one to correct the room, others to apply as many individual tweaks as needed from there using for example the various totally customizable parametric equalization operations provided . How to customize to personal preferences correctly? That’s the trick. It takes some learning and trial and error to master, but 1000% worth it.

@emergingsoul  DSP computations are complex and extensive. Still, the automated corrections are overall much simpler and quicker to perform than a manual approach, as well as more accurate (assuming you’ve done it right).

Sounds to me like you’re approaching it wrong by expecting DSP to produce an overall sonic experience that sounds best TO YOUR EAR on its own. But you are not alone. Almost everyone initially makes the same mistake of expecting DSP to automatically transform his/her system into "The Oracle of High Fidelity."

I suggest you just let the DSP circuitry do its thing, and then make whatever additional manual adjustments put the biggest smile on YOUR face downstream of those corrections.

What actually happens to make it do what it does if it does much Beyond what tone controls do??

It’s all done in the digital signal processing domain so anything is possible from the equivalent of simple analog tone controls to sophisticated convolution filters.

Unfortunately the more powerful applications require some study to master though over time vendors are making things increasingly easy for lay users to leverage DSP effectively. An example would be a convolution filter for a specific headphone model that someone else created and all you have to do is download and apply the right file to make most any good quality headphone sound even better, based on data collected by experts on how how headphones work optimally to provide an improved listening experience.

DSP is definitely a topic worth reading up on and leaning about. IT can help make most any good quality equipment sound more like a reference standard or perhaps merely more the way you want it sound, in most any room, so it helps keep one off the costly and time consuming hifi equipment merry go round.  That's because  now you have pretty much total control over how things sound rather than be at the mercy of the gear chosen and the room it is playing in or headphones being listened to.

It’s just one very powerful feature of Roon for example that makes that product even more valuable to serious listeners.

So why do these dsp manufacturers make it so difficult to use their product. I have to test everything and then I have to load it to my AV processor. And if I don’t like it I gotta go back and adjust the curve and then reload it and see what happens.

It’s not the easiest to use even for people with computer knowledge.

Has anyone designed an interface that can allow you to adjust things on the fly without going through all the annoying processes to upload adjustments??

+1 @mapman 

DSP is incredibly beneficial to music reproduction when done right. Done wrong, it can destroy the experience entirely, and most users unfortunately don't learn its nuances well enough to do it right. Also, while DSP is a wonderfully powerful tuning tool, its computed adjustments are not necessarily the final word. Some manual final tweaking may be required.

Besides adjusting channel balance, frequency balance, speaker phase, and the virtual acoustic listening space, a DSP system with the Flux Capacitor circuit can transport you through time. 😉

What actually happens to make it do what it does if it does much Beyond what tone controls do??

@emergingsoul Sounds like you are talking specifically about room correction. 

One of the best things they do well is make sure the sub and main speakers are properly integrated, something most amateurs can't do very well at all.  They should also help the speakers sound seamless so that sounds move around the room without breaks or enhancements.

Ideally, room correction doesn't have to do much to bring the speakers close to ideal, but the quality of room correction from vendor to vendor seems to matter. 

+1 mapman

DSP is just a tool. It’s what is done with it case by case that matters. The devil is in the details. Done right it can be a game changer.