Erik,
Sorry, I see I never responded, sobered goes, better late than never. I liked the Amp Camp Amp @ 5 wpc, but just didn’t have the right speakers for it at the time. I’d didn’t stay around that long because at the time I didn’t want to build a system around it. Later, I got a beautiful matching custom Fleawatt 20 wpc amp (3118dt chip) and tube-based passive line stage preamp that was truly gorgeous & outstanding matched with Omega Super 3XRSs |
Have fun with it and let us know, @lou_setriodes
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lak,
One thing I should have mentioned, is, if you plan to build a kit then learn to tweak it, then this is probably not the best kit to do that with.
This is a very basic amplifier circuit. It has low distortion at very low power, but as soon as the power gets up to anywhere reasonable, like 1W, the distortion is very high. No matter what component tweaks you do, you can't make much difference in that, it needs a different circuit.
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The point of DIY is not to save money, but to develop a visceral, first hand experience most audiophiles don't ever get to.
If you are interested, have the cash, and maybe a young family member to help you .... do it and don't worry about upgrades.
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There there is an old saying about opinions- everybody’s got one.
Do the build, make mistakes, learn from them, get help from others w more experience, get advice, take some w less than a grain of salt, enjoy the ride!
Listen!
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lak, I would not get too hung up on "upgrades" and start with a basic kit and just getting it to work, enjoy the sound, and learn as you will probably make mistakes. It is hard when you don’t have experience, as what appears as "experienced upgrades" are often just stuff thrown against the wall with hopes it sticks ..... and usually claiming that it does. There are DIY forums more appropriate to a beginner and people generally more experienced with electronics who can walk you through it if you go that route. lak3,702 posts10-20-2019 10:17amI’m in agreement, for someone that has not built electronic equipment before (myself included), the Kit looks like a lot of fun.
I tend to get confused when people with experience begin talking about upgrades that will increase the level of the builds. I’m in favor of the upgrades but my inexperience makes the upgrades look confusing because I no longer have the step by step directions to follow with the exact parts I need. |
The guy who runs ASR is like Julian Hirsch. He has no ear whatsoever, and biases his reviews after he has seen the measurements.
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Wow...what an awful review.
Like I stated earlier, within it's power limitations and matched with the right speaker(s), this is a wonderful sounding amplifier.
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Even without break-in they improve on the stock Meanwell SMPS. Increased dynamics. Weighty and extended LF.
I have found that going from switching power supply to a linear with a very large capacitor bank will yield significant improvements in bass strength and body. Along with all the other improvements! lol |
they alll seem somewhat sterile and lifeless. IMHO, they all need a tube preamp to warm them up @lou_setriodes Nelson understands the importance of lower ordered harmonics since you can't eliminate distortion altogether (this is a lot bigger topic than there might be room for on this thread!). So his stuff doesn't have that dryness to which you allude above. But a good tube preamp shouldn't be particularly warm- just neutral :)
Perhaps using the word "warm" to describe tube sound isn't the right word. Sweet sounding might be better, at any rate, with tubes, there's a certain something there - warm, sweet, euphonic whatever it is that just sounds so right and is to me more appealing than listening to solid state. Maybe even order distortion is the term I'm looking for.
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Upon returning from the CAF audio show with good sounds freshly implanted in the memory bank, I was greeted by two Zerozone 24V/5A linear supplies from Hong Kong. Even without break-in they improve on the stock Meanwell SMPS. Increased dynamics. Weighty and extended LF. The slight opaqueness, politeness, and soft-focus of the stock unit is gone. Soundstage is larger and more dimensional. Resolution is increased across FR. Mids are supple and SET-like. There is a vivid tactile quality as heard with top echelon amps. Well worth the $450.
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@auxinput - Woops, the connectors are indeed Oyaide-- for the ACA, 2.5 ID x 5.5 OD (based on the Meanwell data sheet spec.)
I do a custom build to 10-11awg with a twist of 20awg .999 dead soft silver strands from Rio Grande on-line. IME, with DC the higher the gauge and shorter the length the better. For terminations to small connector tabs, extend 2-3 strands out of the bundle to make the solder junction.
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@dgarretson - What Furutech connectors did you use? I don't see any DC connectors made by Furutech. The best I have seen is the Oyaide ones below: https://www.vhaudio.com/connectors-rcaxlr.html#OyaideDCBut they are gold-plated, which slows down and warms up the sound. I chose the switchcraft ones because of this. As far as wire, I prefer pure copper (my preference) because silver can be a little to fast/sterile for me. I can't imagine trying to solder 10-11awg wire to these tiny DC connectors! lol. |
@auxinput Thanks for this info. In past projects I have build DC umbilicals with 10-11awg silver wire, Furutech connectors, and tinned copper braid shielding. I'll keep all options in mind.
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@dgarretson - you can test these Zerozone power supplies stock, but you can also upgrade the power cord and the fuse. In addition, I upgraded my DC output cables as well. I used a 5.5mm x 2.1mm DC plug from Digikey: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/switchcraft-inc/767KS17/SC1389-ND/2238432And 16awg
UTP VH Audio cryo-treated OFC hookup cable w/ AirLok insulation below: https://www.vhaudio.com/wire.html#ofcairlokThe results of the DC cable upgrade were significant. I kept the DC connector on the power supply side because it's hard to find the correct size replacement. I just de-soldered the existing cable and solder on my VH Audio wire. |
I love building kits. This is a great sounding little amp. I’ve built 3 of these. First I built two to run as mono. But found that a single running in stereo was really enough and sounded just as good with an efficient set of speakers. So I sold one amp. Then after awhile, I wasn’t using the ACA amp and ended up selling that one too. But then I missed it, so I bought a third kit and built that one which gets switched into a second system. I pair it with a Schitt saga. I also have paired one with an Elekit 8500 preamp I built and have since sold. Ps. Elekit are great products, I’ve built four different amps from them.
cheers
k
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@dgarretson
Please keep us posted! I might upgrade the power supplies on my dual mono build and I’m extremely interested on your thoughts. |
I just ordered a pair of Chinese Zerozone 24Vdc/5A linear power supplies to compare to the stock Meanwell SMPS. I've queried the ACA DIY forum thread for experience with LPS substitutions, but to no avail. We'll find out shortly.
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they alll seem somewhat sterile and lifeless. IMHO, they all need a tube preamp to warm them up @lou_setriodes Nelson understands the importance of lower ordered harmonics since you can't eliminate distortion altogether (this is a lot bigger topic than there might be room for on this thread!). So his stuff doesn't have that dryness to which you allude above. But a good tube preamp shouldn't be particularly warm- just neutral :) |
@jayh
Thanks for sharing such a wonderful experience! |
@robeswi
Thanks for the information!
I’m going to build a dual mono set. The stereo version sounds great with a small wide band monitor I designed and built. I think a dual mono set driving a pair of 8” wide band speakers in a larger room will be awesome. The BK-20 Kit that @schwartz36 mentioned might be a solution.
It would be wonderful if we could share photos of our ACA builds. I see some on the DIY site, but I’m sure there are more.
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Good, as I'm not a huge fan of the chip amps. I've owned at least 7-8 of them with different chips and while they all sound pretty amazing, in the end, they alll seem somewhat sterile and lifeless. IMHO, they all need a tube preamp to warm them up |
Not chip- discreet transistors.
The sides of the chassis are large heat sinks-
Even so it gets pretty warm! (class A).
7 watts on a side, switch on back to convert to 14 watt monoblock, also set up for XLR input 14 w mono. |
Is this DIY 8 watt amp a chip amp? What about the Nelson Pass First Watt amps, are they chip amps too?
I'm looking for an inexpensive SS amp to go with my Museatex AVC-1 preamp. I have a PP EL84 amp already but don't want to run tubes all the time and would like to be able to have a relatively low powered SS amp to compliment this. The speakers are 90 db Castle Durham 900's that are rated for a 15-85 watt amp. I normally prefer a class a/b/ab Mosfet amp.
Thanks in advance! |
Built one w my daughter last Christmas when she was home from college.Took us a couple of days, probably 14 hrs total, but I did a lot of talking. She had never soldered before. I've done some kits.
Her gift was the finished amp. Mine was the time together.
Sounds great for what it is. Had so much fun w the build, I got their "SS-2" pre/headohone amp. They work well together.
I hope others check them out.
Jay |
I built a pair of the ACA kits. Balanced mono, all stock. They are driving Decware DFR8 speakers in Madisound BK-20 folded horn cabinets.
I’ve been floored by how much I enjoyed building the kits and the resulting pleasure in listening to my new system.
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Allane, I built the dual mono blocks and love them. I also own a retail Firstwatt J2 and M2, all having slightly different but highly enjoyable sound. You can set the monos up in either series or parallel, and honestly it depends on your speakers as to which will sound best to you. In my case it’s series (I have horns), parallel with my speakers is so hyper detailed, you get insane details while in the adjoining room! But I know others where parallel is best. The latest version of ACA in mono form can also be setup to ran balanced... so many options. They are rather remarkable for the price. |
This thread is unreadable . The truly bored seem to be taking the bait from each other . Thanks Eric for passing on the info for Nelsons diy kit . I think it is great that nelson is a man of the people .
I have forwarded the info to some of my less fortunate audiophile friends that took up a life in electronics. Should save time from building an amp with offshore design. |
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Over the last year I also built the Amp Camp Amp kit. It's fun-value and performance were so good I immediately moved on and built the B1 Korg preamp kit. That was before they had a full kit available for the B1K, but they now have a complete kit similar ACA kit. I also added an internal LPS to the B1K along with improved Caps and other components.
I then took the next step and built an F5 amp using the Pass Linear PS boards and the PCB and parts kits available for the build from DIYAudio. I am extremely impressed with the performance of these relatively simple amp designs. And the cost/performance factor is unequaled IMHO. It ain't like falling off a long to do this, especially the F5 build, but that's the challenging fun part. I highly recommend this experience.
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Again, the sound improved when I went back down to a single board with
it's own power supply. Didn't need the extra power at all. Which is Pass' whole point, simpler is better. An approach others have taken one way or another. CJ with their PV preamps for instance, and single driver speaker designs. |
thanks for the input
@cal3713 and
@auxinput
FWIW, I wasn't thinking about these for powering an amp. Actually to power an audio pc or a DAC. I have a lab lps and can use a relatively inexpensive, decent looking lps if it performs well. I also liked they have several voltages to choose from. |
And I found the exact same thing with the F4. I had built full mono blocks and was paralleling my inputs and outputs to double the current available to my speakers. Again, the sound improved when I went back down to a single board with it's own power supply. Didn't need the extra power at all. |
@lewinskih01 dual mono is really the way to go if you can. Each channel/board performs so much better when it's got it's own power supply. In my chassis I've got an f4 board on one side and a sissy sit (diy sit3) on the other. Left them both powered and just shorted the input on one side to do evaluation. The SIT amp got so much better when I finally unpowered the F4. Shocking really how much just having an amp pulling unchanging idle current off the shared power supply could impact the sound. |
@lewinskih01 - nope, I have not. It was just one of the few linear power supplies on ebay that did 24V at 5A (which is what the Amp Camp power switching supply is). I have tried a few different Teradak power supplies. I generally try to get a PS that has many smaller capacitors in the power supply to reduce ESR and provide a faster response to voltage draws. These have been for transports and HDMI video processing devices (such as Lumagen Radiance and a HDMI KVM switcher). The Teradak have done an excellent job at this. I suppose for the Class A Amp Camp kit, two large caps in that power supply would be just fine.
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Has anyone moved from a single stereo model to a dual mono set? Comments on sound and performance?
I’m seriously considering building a set of ACA dual monos. I had a lot of fun with the stereo build and it sounds amazing with some wide band speakers I’ve designed. I have another set of speakers that I think would be great for a dual mono set.
The ACA Kit reminds me a lot of the interest and excitement around the 47 Labs (ChipAmp) designs that came along 20 years ago. |
uhm, just a comment here. I haven't felt any of Erik's posts are offensive or "stirring the pot", including this thread. He brought up a topic of discussion, and even if he can't participate in the actual building of this kit, I don't think any of his comments are bringing down the spirit of what this topic was meant to do.
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As should be clear from my previous post, my foray into DIY was super successful. Any bias that people have is definitely misplaced. I replaced a $4000 300b SET for $1200 and got better sound. I would have bought an F4, but couldn't find one used. So happy that I didn't. |
mrdecibel
@erik_squires then why start this thread ?
As usual, this thread "had" an ulterior motive behind it, and the OP as usual has egg all over his face again, as those here are getting used to what he plays at. Cheers George |
reading some of Mr. Squire’s postings that he has no love for anything Nelson Pass related so while reading the whole posting I was waiting for the bomb to drop in the attempt to destroy a piece of Pass equipment. Odd... I am not tribal. Nelson Pass is an undeniable, enviable technical and professional success. As has been pointed out by others, he’s been a huge contributor to the DIY community for which he deserves nothing but praise. I also have opinions about gear I like and gear I don’t like to listen to. That doesn’t make gear I don’t like bad gear, or Pass a bad person. I just may not like the sonic outcome. You learn nothing however if you only ask people who agree with you what they like. By asking those who disagree with you to be specific in their experience and path you may learn something. Above all, nothing makes me happier than learning about audiophiles who have found their final set of gear, regardless of whether I happen to be a fan boy of the brand. Best, Erik |
BTW, there are better forums for DIY than Audiogon, True, but since DIYers invented HIFI I think it is healthy to do a little cross-pollenating. The more hands on audiophiles, the more helpful, friendly and useful the community becomes, whether or not they agree with me. and more than a
little bias against DIY found here. Sadly also true, but if things get too electrifying, those posters usually find better forums. The lack of pictures in a post is actually something that keeps DIY stuff out of here too. |
I enjoy most of Erik’s threads, which often raise unusual topics that break the tedium of too many repetitive threads. It’s irrelevant whether the OP decides to build the kit. A good thread is like a large inflated ball that we used to see bouncing across the crowd top at outdoor rock concerts. No one worried about the motivation that put it there. If it comes to you just hit it and keep rolling.
BTW, there are better forums for DIY than Audiogon, and more than a little bias against DIY found here. But members with an interest usually find a way to contribute something worthwhile in that niche. |
I built an F4 from diyaudio and it changed my life. Just finished the DIY version of the SIT3 and it is beautiful. I've got two monoblocks that each have an F4 and SIT3 in them... roughly $6400 worth of amplifiers that I built for $2000, and the process teaches you about how electronics work. Now I can troubleshoot and fix my own equipment.
Thanks Nelson, it's amazing that you allow people to do this with your intellectual property. |
Ah, how I used to enjoy Audiogon, having been a member since 2001. Things used to be shared in a nice, positive manner, threads had meaning and life was merry. Though I usually avoid Audiogon's Forum as it tends to be more negative than positive at times, I have been intrigued by the postings of Mr. Squires. He does state that he has posted positive threads. Frankly, with approximately 289 postings / threads by Mr. Squires I have not the time to read them, as I have not the time, even though I am retired. In Audiogon, the "High End Community", I would think that the enjoyment of music would be the thing that takes up most of our (collectively speaking) time. It seems that the equipment and even some "sniping" is becoming the center of many postings. As my father once said, (and this is a quote) "
Verbosity wastes a portion of the reader’s or listener’s life.” So, with all these postings, replies, "trolling", more postings, I have a difficult time taking the member who started the original post somewhat seriously. 289 postings is a lot. I have no qualms with people seeking help, or an occasional comment about something they have experienced, but to talk about building something, then have several good people responding only to then say it is a project that he has not the time for, well, then there is that wasting of the reader's time and perhaps even good will. I believe wiser people than me have addressed the virtues of speaking less than more as it does tend to lend credibility to the party who speaks only when making a point or addressing an issue now and then. I for one, am going to avoid this forum and look to the one on US Audio Mart. Things seem to a tad more calm there and less "emotional".
And it appears to me after reading some of Mr. Squire's postings that he has no love for anything Nelson Pass related so while reading the whole posting I was waiting for the bomb to drop in the attempt to destroy a piece of Pass equipment. Odd...
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