Do you trust Audiogon?

Thing is, you cannot cure an egg sucking dog. Once they get a taste for stolen eggs, it is for life. You either dump the dog, or fortify the coop.

oh, in terms of evil propensities, the egg sucking dog’s cousin, the crap eating dog, is always Johnny at the rathole for the leavings. 💩👀🙀

I did pretty much trust the process at Agon...until this thread. The number of people that think it's ok to skirt banking laws and the policies of Paypal and Agon are enlightening.

You think PayPal doesn’t care? First, read the agreement: they can and will LIMIT your account to stop it. Secondly, why not test your proposition, and in the next sale call PayPal and tell them it doesn’t truly involve a friend or family, but is an arms length sale, then report back....

And, if having PayPal limit your account to fee only transactions isn’t sleazy enough for you, how about whether a merchant seller, a term of art meaning one who regularly deals in goods of this kind, is violating the Consumer Protection Acts in every state and the United States by engaging in deceptive or unfair practices of trade or business. Before you say it, liabity is strict, not based on fault or comparative fault, and scienter is immaterial. Do it routinely as a merchant seller and.....💩

Yes, and it is wire fraud. You are such a nice guy. Your comment begs the question, casts doubt on you, and shows how guiless most buyers are-shame on you for cheating PayPal, and leaving buyers with no meaningful remedy.

Think about it for less than a second. Under the terms of the PayPal agreement which binds you, you expressly and impliedly represent it is NOT a commercial transaction, and the person sending you money, a total stranger, is either a FRIEND or FAMILY, when in truth and in fact, the payment is a sham. 

@maritime51 - I have made several sales where I insisted the buyer use PayPal Friends and Family because they had no feedback.  I've never had a problem with them accepting this request.

I've never had a problem purchasing here, I have bought a couple and sold a few,  but I've had offers with strange accompanying emails,  when I forwarded those to Tammy, she replied very quickly with a history of this person on audiogon with solid advice.  I have also had my account on Audiogon hacked,  when questions were sent,  I got immediate response from Agon with verification of my account and changes made to ensure no damage was done to me or my reputation.  
Audiogon is not perfect as none of us are, but I have no doubt that they look out for their members. 

I do trust Audiogon, they have been fair and prompt. Checking with Audiogon before a large transaction is a good idea. Tammy responds to emails expeditiously.

How much positive feedback did this dude have very little or none??I only buy from people with at least 1page of positive feedback and for a big ticket item i must talk to them by phone as well.Nothing is 100% guaranteed but this helps.

Buzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Banks (US at least) are required to report $10k and up transactions. The Feds can take a look at potential money laundering scams or other illegal activity. Breaking the sale up into smaller pieces is not illegal as far as I know.

Taking a sale off Audiogon is done to avoid paying fees to Audiogon. This is against their policy for obvious reasons but by no means uncommon especially on larger sales. It probably breaches their sales agreement - they could press charges but i doubt that is common. 

Neither of these concerns are huge to me. Audiogon didn’t respond to you because they see this every day and because even if they communicated with the seller they aren’t going to share it with you. 

Uncomfortable?  Cancel the sale, but from what we know at this point it is not worth the big hairy cow you are having. 

Looks like someone is getting a divorce and trying to hide some assets. If there is something illegal no one knows exactly what audiogon is doing. Generally federal authorities do not want anyone to take any action, leave things as they are until they can investigate which has always been my experience, so I wouldn't worry about audiogon. You did the right thing by ending the transaction and reporting. 

Drastic, I think you are right on point. It appears to be attempted wire fraud, too. It sucks when the crap flies start feeding. 

Some of you want more detail.  First, the seller wanted me to divide the payment into 4 payments, each less than $10,000, with a wink toward "avoiding attention".  So, he does not want to be noticed by federal anti-money-laundering screens, nor by the IRS.
Second, the seller wanted to take the transaction off Audiogon and exchange contact information by phone.  That would have left me with no paper trail.
To those of you who criticized my post:

That's all the detail you're getting.  Audiogon has seen the complete email chain up to an including the seller's request to go offline.  I am not naming names or presenting "evidence" because it's none of your business, and also because you're not a judge or jury, and also because I don't need the trouble.  The only authority in this matter is Audiogon, and they don't seem to feel that this is actionable.  I do.  I thought I was doing a public service by warning people that in this case Audiogon showed little interest in using my information to protect YOU.  I already protected myself.  So go put your hostility in a sock.

“honest folks” do “cheat on their taxes”.

eh?

I trust AudioGon. It's sellers and buyers I'm leary of. I've only purchased a few things over the years and have never had a problem and in fact the transactions were great. But a few years ago there was a dealer on this site that had good feedback. Nothing negative. Then he ripped off 2 people that paid by wire transfer. One for 35K and another for 66K. Both were interstate. After letters from lawyers were sent letters he disappeared along with his business. Since then I've only dealt with my local dealer.

That said in this case both buyers got what they purchased from the manufacturer after seeing proof of the wire transfer. The manufacturer authorized a shady dealer and for that reason they made good. I happen to know this because I was with my local dealer and the manufacturers reps were there for something else and overheard the conversation since they wanted those to people to work with a great authorized dealer. Both those buyers started threads here warning of that dealer so that was the only reason I had any idea what they were talking about.

Audiogon has always done right by me.

Thanks OP. This a classic post some vague baloney, then don't answer questions thread.

You aren't buying anything from Audiogon. It all depends on who is actually selling the item.

I trust Audiogon as much as any online intermediary site like E-bay.

Oh, here we go, inchoate versus substantive crimes....

I would need more information than the OP has provided since according to him " Some of them involved proposed violations of banking laws" and then after reporting to audiogon the items are still for sale. For the OP's information to PROPOSE to VIOLATE  a banking law is a VIOLATION  of banking law and if audiogon did not report this they are also in violation so maybe the OP doesn't really understand what he is claiming. 

Paucity?  How about a dearth?  What a load. 

I do trust audiogon , and i like the discussions, but i never, ever pay with Paypal. If i wanna buy something and it’is only with Paypal, they always write:no shipments to Belgium. The reason is that too much fraud happend. The most honest way is.: make a deal, give your bank card number and after the amount is on your account and send the  package. Also request all data from the buyer. (Your data may also not be missing).
Just be honest with each other,true Music lovers are generally.

@drastic,

“I killed the deal and reported this to Audiogon - what was Audiogon response to your email? 

Audiogon customer service has been outstanding. And yes, I completely trust Audiogon selling / buying process but I also do my due diligence to weed out disingenuous folks. 

I question the OP's cred if he is unwilling to out the perpetrator.

If I had a larger transaction on line (dubious idea to begin with)
I would pay a local retailer with cred to inspect the item and
turn over my payment or let someone not move forward .

I believe OP was probably talking about an IRS issue related to bank deposit reporting requirements. A reasonable misstatement I think. 

what banking laws did you think were violated?

Yes, I trust Audiogon.   Do I do due diligence, yes.   If something is not right, then pass on the deal.   It sounds like you accepted responsibility and did the right thing.  

Call it smoke if you want-it is a thing of no consequence. 

The OP seems be justified to be suspicious, but that doesn’t mean he was going to get ripped off.  I know nothing of the circumstances or deal but I’ll add that lots of “honest folks” do “cheat on their taxes”.
Ultimately, it’s wise to protect yourself and walk away if uncomfortable, but don’t expect people to be convicted on suspicion, not evidence. 
Cheers,
Jim

I would say that information is very pertinent. Accusations should not be made lightly without being prepared to back it up with a little bit of factual evidence or its all just smoke.

I have made several sales and purchases here over last few years with no issues.  Admittedly none were 5 figures but plenty of mid 4 figure deals.

What does it matter?

Uh, could it be making a single transaction of more than $10,000 into several to evade...?

proposed violations of banking laws

What does this mean? Could you give an example?
B

I had a clown tout how honest he was, then try getting me to use PayPal friends and family, claiming I had no trader rating....

two things: first, this leaves you with nothing, and secondly, it may be wire fraud as to PayPal, who is damaged by this outright deceit.