In the Navy, the 'freshman' were told to grind anchor with file so it penatrates bottom better.
CD's are not magnetic and need demagnetizing just as anchor needs grinding.
CD's are not magnetic and need demagnetizing just as anchor needs grinding.
Do you demag or destat your CDs/DVDS?
The paint is slightly magnetic, magnetic enough to hear when it's been demagnetized, anyway. The first ion of air molecules on the plastic CD while spinning imparts a static electric charge on the disc best removed with any number of things, anti static spray, tourmaline negative ion gun, what have you. |
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,If your bike has aluminium frame, you can try to attract magnet there and see what happens. Try to attract CD with magnet and see what happens.Is the aluminum frame 100% pure AL or maybe only 99% pure? What about that 1%? And how about the ink used on the label side? Any ferrous materials there? Furutech RD-1 CD Demagnetizerhttp://www.iar-80.com/page53.html Other articles for you to read. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/furutech/rd1.html http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/furutech/rd2.html http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/demagnetization.html |
Why so much science when there's a simple math? All of these articles are just about fraction of % of other materials and minerals inside aluminium??? Folks got enough talent and weed to smoke to write and continue to write hundreds of articles about nothing that makes money and makes product or process markettable and Furutech is one of the champions in this strategy, according to their array of products they sell. There are certainly other articles that clearly state about bogus tweaks in audio industry(CD demagnetizer is certainly listed as one of the articles' bold headlines), but they're not as massive as marketted reviews and philosophical product articles. Can you do your math? Might as well grind anchor because everyone on the ship will tell you that it'll work better LOL! You can also wave the broom over the antenna to blow away EMI and other interfearances. That one also common on military or Navy. Everyone will tell fool to do that! |
No. I do make sure they are clean and smudge free by wetting and wiping clean with a non-abrasive cloth whenever possible, especially for a faster rip with fewer re-reads. That addresses any static electricity issues that might exist as well. There are many other better areas worth investing $$$s in for clearly better sound than a fancy gadget for this purpose alone. |
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Even if the ink on a CD contains some small amount of magnetic materials I am still not sure why it would matter. The interface between the player and the disk is a laser. Is there any practical examples of a magnet effecting a light? I can't think of anything. We also can't forget that the digital stream isn't trying to differentiate among millions of nearly identical results, there are two possible outcomes. The A/D conversion and the rest of the analog signal path is a different story. |
I did a little quick research and it appears that CD players use photon lasers. Photons have no charge and therefore would not be effected by a magnetic field. Can someone explain what the mechanism is for magnetic ink to influence the playback of a CD in a negative way, or at all? I would guess the ink explaination came up as a response to people first becoming skeptical of the product as it was first advertised. |
I did a little quick research and it appears that CD players use photon lasers. Photons have no charge and therefore would not be effected by a magnetic field. Mceljo, Quote from link. "Now, the CD rotates pretty fast (200 to 500 rpm), and any ferrous material will gradually become slightly magnetized over time if it is rapidly moving in a magnetic field (the earth's magnetic field will do, but there are doubtless other magnetic fields as well within a CD player). All right, so we have a CD with some slightly magnetized pieces of ink, spinning around inside your CD player. How does that cause contaminating noise in your music? Let's assume that the brown pigment in brown ink is ferrous, and let's assume that some small lettering on the CD label is printed in brown ink. Let's assume that there are about 50 letters in the small lettering, which means that there are about 100 vertical ferrous bar magnets (for example, the letter H has two vertical bars), rotating around with the CD. These rotating bar magnets are putting an electromagnetic noise field into the space and air inside your CD player. If the CD is rotating at 8 Hz (480 rpm), and there are 100 discrete bar magnets going around at 8 Hz, then they are putting out noise with a fundamental at 800 Hz, together with all kinds of overtones spread upward throughout the rest of the musical spectrum (if we were to assume the bar magnets were purely rectangular and put out noise that looks like a square wave, there would be overtones at 2400 Hz, 4000 Hz, 5600 Hz, etc.). You can see that this contaminating noise thrown into the air is rich in high frequency spectral content, so it would be most destructive of music's higher frequencies and of singular, non-repeating musical transients, if it were to somehow interfere with the music signal inside your CD player. And, if a CD treatment like the Furutech could reduce this high frequency contaminating noise, then we would expect to hear the sonic improvements being most dramatic for music's trebles and for its singular transients - which is exactly what we do hear. Given that this noisy electromagnetic field is radiating into the space and air inside your CD player, how could it come to actually contaminate your music? After all, your music signal is safely traveling inside the conducting wires of the CD player's circuitry, isn't it? So who cares if there's spurious electromagnetic noise in the air outside these wires, right? Well, it turns out that electromagnetic fields in the space and air just outside your CD player's wiring can also penetrate into that wiring, so if that field comprises contaminating noise, then that noise can add to or interfere with the signals in your CD player's wiring. The analog circuitry in your CD player is certainly vulnerable to signal degradation by interference from noise, but so also is all the digital circuitry in your CD player. Why? First, that so-called digital circuitry is actually analog circuitry, operating with precise thresholds and precise currents, whose level and/or precise timing can be contaminated, degraded, or made less determinate by noise. Second, it is now widely recognized that merely adding noise to a digital signal in your CD player can worsen jitter (by making thresholds more temporally indeterminate), which in turn worsens distortion of your music when that timing indeterminacy reaches your DAC chip. If the interfering noise has high frequency content, then this can cause high frequency jitter, which is especially destructive of music's higher frequencies, causing smearing kinds of distortion (from FM distortion sidebands spread over a wide and high frequency range). Furthermore, it turns out that the desired signals running around in the wiring of your CD player are not really traveling inside the wires, but instead are actually traveling as electromagnetic fields in the space and air outside those wires - in the very same space and air also occupied by the noisy electromagnetic field from those spinning magnets on the CD. Since the desired CD player signals, representing your music, and the noise from the spinning CD magnets are both mixing it up in the same space and air, naturally there is cross contamination. Similar considerations would apply to any ferrous impurities in the aluminum deposited on the CD as its reflective layer." http://www.iar-80.com/page53.html |
The type of marketing takes me back to the F-150 commercials when Mike Rowe first became involved with the "new" truck. It must have been about 2004 since that is when I purchased a Tundra after driving all of the half ton trucks. The commercial claimed that the F-150 has the most low end torque in class and the seat of my pants told me otherwise. I recorded the commercial and paused it to read the fine print. The actual fact was that the F-150 had the highest percentage of peak torque at 800 rpm. I just laughed when I read it. By law they have to make factual claims, but it is very easy to mislead. I don't think there are any regulations for advertising in audio so... |
"Pseudo science at best misapplying concepts in such a way that it sounds good to the consumer." 07-10-14: Mceljo Mceljo, These guys have no dog in the fight. IAR International Audio/Video Review http://www.iar-80.com/ http://www.iar-80.com/page53.html . |
The CD laser is a quantum device and produces a coherent beam of light. But, since the CD laser is a *quantum well* that operates by quantum confinement, the light beam of photons is a WAVE only, not particles. And since the light wave is in the *electromagnetic* spectrum it's quite possible it's subject to magnetic fields. Also, the physical data is located extremely close to the ink on the label, which helps the case for some sort of magnetic interference, even if the magnetic field is very small. It wouldn't take much since the size of the physical data is nanoscale. |
Sorry but i wanted to see lab results not review after all. Can you tell difference between scientifically proven results and reviews? I can build hypothesis out of literally anything, but how can I prove? Jea, you don't you even know a-bit of science? If not, math is simpler way to comprehend. Check my previous notes. |
Not every physical phenomenon has an effect on our precious sound quality. THis is one of them in my opinion in that CD playback nowadays is perhaps the most reliable process in all of home audio in terms of producing consistent results, save except for playback of digital files in memory or even on magnetic disk storage. Wait, those computer disks are magnetic!!!!! Audiophile alert!! :^) GEof/Machina Dynamic considers this a problem. What more evidence is needed? |
Sorry Jea, but there's no lab tested evidence at all. Czarivey, I would think by now you would have tried to back up your claim that the Furutech RD-1, RD-2 and the Acoustic Revive RD-3 are nothing more than pie in the sky snake oil devices. But no, all you do is continue to trash the devices and there by trash the name of the companies that manufacture the devices. You Flat Earthers never fail to amaze me. The very least you could of done is find one, just one, audio magazine that said the devices were nothing more than snake oil. Hell you are too lazy to even do that. Here is your precious test you so desire. http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/cd_dvd/rd-3_2.html |
Magazine reviewers are biased to be positive if they want to continue doing reviews. There is a lot of science to support the idea that your assumption that it works will allow you to convince yourself that it works. Call it placebo or something else. There comes a point where it is no longer possible to hear the difference even if it were there. There is a lot of scientifically measurable aspects of audio equipment that cannot be heard by the listener. I highly doubt this effect has ever been measured and likely is undetectable. |
Jea48 - Here's a little order of magnitude experiment for you to do. Find a way to isolate a CD player from your system such that you have no physical connection with it from your listening position. Then have someone pick the CD player up and move it around while you're listening and see if you can tell when the CD player is stationary and when it is being moved. Obviously, the goal isn't to make the CD player skip or identify connection issues from the cables being moved. You should use a long digital connection to isolate the disk to laser interface from the A/D conversion. If you listen for a reasonable period of time and have no way of telling if the person is in control of the CD player has "left the building" or not you will not be able to tell the difference if you're being completely honest with yourself. You must be able to tell when the CD player is picked up and set back down. Take note of the times and compare your notes after the fact with the other person. Moving the CD player around will, in my opinion, have a much more significant effect on playback than the magnetic ink on the disk will have. If you can't hear the more significant one, then you cannot hear the less significant one. |
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I'm not ignorant. I fight foolishness and sometimes with humor(or laughs with anger and somewhat courage), because same money fool pays for bogus or fake can be much more useful elsewhere real. Even fool can feel difference between $350 disk demagnetizer and $350 pair of shoes after all(or $350 is too much for shoes huh?). It's alway's one's call weather one realizes or not who to support -- the bogus factory(ies) or as per example above shoe designers. |
I have compared $7 hardware store speaker cable to a pair of $2,000 Nordost, I think, on a very nice system. I did hear a tiny difference that I would say was an improvement, but I didn't think it was worth the extra $1,993 dollars it would take to upgrade. My new $600 tube amplifier made a much more significant improvement than a cable ever could. If I am ignorant on this topic in your opinion, that's perfectly ok with me. Enjoy listening to your system. |
David99... "Maybe a dumb question but, Wouldnt a Milty Zero-Stat Gun have the same effect for alot less money ?" That's why I ask the question, can't the plastic layer of the disk pick up a static charge? I'm not saying a CD can can become magnetized, but plastic is a conductor in the in the same way vinyl is. |
As a final thought, are you concerned with the magnetic field your speakers put out impacting the playback of your CD player? A lot of speakers are shielded so maybe yours are? This would be a perfect example of a much stronger magnetic field that it is very likely in a reasonably close proximity to your CD player. |
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Yes, actual experience. Didn't read it in a book or magazine. Didn't learn anything from Flat Earther naysayers on this site either..... Actual hands on experience. I just don't understand the term "Flat Earther" in the context you use it. As I understand it a flat earther is one who rejects scientific reasoning and instead relies on outdated ideas, pseudoscience or religious arguments to derive their facts. What Czarivey and Mceljo are asking for is scientific proof that the minute magnetic fields produced either by the spinning disc or the paint on the top of the disc have any audible effect. This always seems to be the case when the term "Flat Earther" is thrown around. |
Specifically, I remember one particular person that left the industry and provided their thought afterwords. I thought I saw it on audiogon, at least the link. If I get time I will try to dig it up. Generally, I have never read a truly negative review in an audio magazine which leads one to assume that they will praise anything that is put in front of them. Admittedly, I so t read a lot of reviews so maybe my sampling isn't representative. |