One assumes you are speaking for yourself. I am not spoofing anything. I’m as serious as a colonoscopy without benefit of anesthesia. It actually appears you are simply reinforcing the idea that your OP was nothing more than a deliberate troll. To whit, "Mechanical grounding or isolation from vibration has been a hot topic as of late." Following on the heels of the deleted thread on the same topic. If anyone is spoofing the industry it’s you.Your caricature of an audio business is brilliant.
have a nice day
Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?
Mechanical grounding or isolation from vibration has been a hot topic as of late. Many know from experience that footers, stands and other vibration technologies impact things that vibrate a lot like speakers, subs or even listening rooms (my recent experience with an "Energy room"). The question is does it have merit when it comes to electronics and if so why? Are there plausible explanations for their effect on electronics or suggested measurement paradigms to document such an effect?
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Audiopoint wrote, "Mr. Kait, Metal electronic component chassis are conductive for resonance. Metal springs are also conductive of resonance. The metal spring touches the metal chassis and conducts resonance towards the greater mass (racking system or structural flooring) via physics, laws of gravity and motion; hence a mechanical coupling and energy transfer becomes part of the formula." if you’ve been paying attention I’ve always said you have to do both, isolation and damping. But since damping the top plate is easy and cheap I don’t really get your stubborn resistance to using steel springs. Anyway, there are many ways to skin a cat. If steel springs bother you so much just use air springs. Audiopoint also wrote, "Ligo this and Ligo that…seismic vibration this and seismic waves that…. Never do you present words like musical performance, musical quality, ‘audible’, decay, sustain, rhythm, dynamics, harmonics, response time… you know - words that are truly meaningful and understandable to everyone here - words that listeners relate to." LIGO is a favorite example of mine for why seismic vibration is so important for optics and electronics. I’m surprised you haven’t caught on yet. I’ll leave it to you to use the musical instrument metaphor, incorrectly much of the time, I might add. I actually think most of those nouns you refer to in the above paragraph are quite stale and overused. audiopoints then wrote, "Mr. Kait states: - It’s the same concept that audiophiles use to prevent seismic type vibration from interfering with laser assmblies, tonearms, stereo cartridges, printed circuit boards, etc. by incorporating mass on spring isolation. AGAIN: You have yet to respond, answer or clarify or prove to us; how inaudible seismic waves affect the performance of a stereo system in either a standard or more efficient listening environment, nor have you provided any indication as to how such waves have such a dramatic effect on the ‘audible performance’ and/or musical quality of playback equipment when mechanically grounded." When you say I haven’t PROVED how seismic vibrations or seismic forces affect audio performance I would say it’s not really my job to prove it. I’m only describing what seismic forces are, what produces them, how they affect optics and physical objects and electronics. I also provided you with examples of audiophile seismic isolation, including my own devices. Vibraplane has sold something like 10,000 units since being introduced 20 years ago to high end audio. I won’t say that’s PROOF, but it is evidence that something’s going on. Something that you for some reason appear to be completely unaware of, albeit blissfully. You keep saying seismic waves. Not sure what you have in mind, but in reality they are seismic (I.e. Low frequency) vibrations which produce forces. You know, forces capable of moving something. They are waves too, but that is kind of beside the point. Next, audiopoint asked, "Do inaudible seismic waves affect the performance of musical instruments in some “audible” way that the world is not aware of?" Honestly I have no idea. Nest, audiopoint asked, "Do these ‘inaudible’ seismic waves that are present every minute of every day in our lives result in any detrimental “audible” effects?" Seismic forces/vibrations are present 24/7 due to (as I’ve stated repeatedly) Earth crust motion, traffic, wind, ocean waves action, the mechanical feedback of subwoofers, etc. Thus, isolating audio components improves performance all things being equal. You should realize we are way behind the point of questioning whether vibration isolation works for audio, I mean unless you’ve been living in a cave somewhere. Finally, audiopoint added the caveat, The KEY word here is ‘AUDIBLE’ which is the most important word to anyone involved in music and/or sound reproduction. Again, we are way beyond the point, at least as far as high end audio is concerned, of having ask whether seismic vibration isolation is AUDIBLE. We are also way beyond the point of having to ask if quantum mechanics is REAL or if black holes are REAL. But I believe no man should be left behind. ;-) Have a nice day, Geoff Kait machina dynamica We do Artificial Atoms Right |
How about shorter responses so fewer words to read before realizing there’s nothing relevant to the topic there? Also go easy on the hypotheses. Those actually take some work and effort in order to gain support. Although maybe not as much in these parts as elsewhere perhaps. That would explain why certain roosters choose to roost in these parts. |
mapman 13,822 posts 10-25-2016 2:03pm How about shorter responses so fewer words to read before realizing there’s nothing relevant to the topic there? Also go easy on the hypotheses. Those actually take some work and effort in order to gain support. Although maybe not as much in these parts as elsewhere perhaps. That would explain why certain roosters choose to roost in these parts. Moopman, I can certainly understand why you would like to insulate yourself into this thread as some sort of facilitator or moderator since you have zero to say, pro, con or otherwise but are desperate to build up your post count. As far as I’m concerned you should probably find the closest EXIT. You’re not an engineer but you pretend to be one on audio forums. The pseudo psychology is not welcome either. have a nice day |
geoofkait, Actually I and many others have opinions just like you do. The difference is I don’t insist to others mine are in fact true with nothing but words to back it up. You do. All the time. Running ones mouth about science is very easy. You do that well. Its also very lazy for one who claims to be a scientist. Words alone prove nothing. Of course you know all that already. Just summarizing..... |
mapman 13,823 posts 10-25-2016 5:27pm geoofkait, Actually I and many others have my opinions just like you do. The difference is I don’t insist to others mine are in fact true with nothing but words to back it up. You do. All the time. Running ones mouth about science is very easy. You do that well Its also very lazy. Words alone prove nothing. Of course you know all that already. Just summarizing..... oh, shaddup! |
I’m no mechanical engineer, but I do know that a spring is an isolator starting about an octave above it’s "effective" resonant frequency. That frequency is determined by the spring rate and the mass placed upon the spring, such as a pre-amp. Max Townshend explains the theory behind his Seismic Isolators, and demonstrates their effectiveness in a video viewable on You Tube. I would include a link to it if only I knew how---I’m somewhat of a luddite! Below it’s resonant frequency a spring is a coupler, as are all objects (right, mechanical engineers?). That’s why getting as low a resonant frequency as possible is desirable---that provides the most isolation. Isolators made of rubber materials, as well as cones and spikes, have a much higher resonant frequency than does a well-designed spring system---Max has a chart on his Townshend Audio website showing the resonant frequency of rubber isolators, cones and spikes, and his Seismic products. All this assumes one actually desires isolation; some designers, and audiophiles themselves, are instead interested in "draining" vibrations out of their components---the noise from turntable motors, amplifier transformers, spinning CD transports, etc. When the Mod Squad introduced the Tip Toe (the original cone isolator, as far as I know), they claimed it acts as a mechanic diode---a one-way "path" that evacuates vibrations entering it from above, and preventing vibrations entering and traveling up it from below. That claim is disputed by some mechanical engineers, who say that cones and spikes are in fact NOT mechanical diodes, NOT a one way street for vibration. That a cone or spike allows vibrations to enter it as readily from below as from above, providing isolation only above a fairly high frequency (10Hz or so resonance, 20Hz or so effective), acting as a coupler below, with vibrations traveling in both directions into and through it. As I said, I’m no mechanical engineer. |
here is something that people who are not MEs can read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance there are basically 3 things you want to know about a resonance - the amplitude, its frequency (aka fundamental frequency) and the "Q" - the latter relates to how it spreads out - a sharp peak or a low broad peak |
This is a hobby for most , i'm not an engineer or scientist. Put a spring under a transport try it , put a cone under the transport . Does it change the sound in my system good or bad ? Isn't that the goal here ? Or are we all arguing over theories of different companies ? Which will never end the op agear asked " do they have an impact"? In my experience Yes! Why is it that almost every thread Sheldon cooper comments on becomes a debate . Science or not it is a constant theme. Whats the common factor in these battles ? Maybe VAC or Ayre need a consultant? I'm going back to reading Hawkins book ,i guess i'm just a musician among other things with a simple degree . . Geoff as you so beautifully tried to insult me earlier,if you knew me i doubt that would happen . But for some reason you portray yourself as a "guru" when i have not read one positive thing from anyone in any forum anywhere . What i have heard is you install car stereos and you have numerous complaints against you from your "customers" . I asked about your "springs" for under my subs , your response was along the lines of thats a good idea . Then proceeded to say you dont sell to the members here . Huh? I can say that during the night i did have a vision of a walkman placed on a cutting board with broken glass ,skully and molder were there too .. oh ya good day sincerely oledude 49yrs old 👌 |
Oleschool wrote, "Geoff as you so beautifully tried to insult me earlier,if you knew me i doubt that would happen . But for some reason you portray yourself as a "guru" when i have not read one positive thing from anyone in any forum anywhere . What i have heard is you install car stereos and you have numerous complaints against you from your "customers" . I asked about your "springs" for under my subs , your response was along the lines of thats a good idea . Then proceeded to say you dont sell to the members here . Huh? I can say that during the night i did have a vision of a walkman placed on a cutting board with broken glass ,skully and molder were there too .." Guess it just shows you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the Internet as I have no idea what you’re talking about. Numerous complaints from my customers? Install car stereos? Are you drunk? Inhaled too many welding flux fumes? have a nice day |
who makes this? http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm here are some fans: http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm |
randy-11 123 posts 10-25-2016 9:21pm who makes this? http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm here are some fans: http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm ........................ The second link should be http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina37.htm tally ho! |
Yes randy i have fabbed many things like stands .I have been working on my own personal stand for some time ,(it will be very heavy ,flex and be allowed to vibrate ) i have many projects rolling besides the audio thing ,and have little interest in opening yet another business, yes i have multiple business geoff for fun i retired at 40 ✌️ But i would dare not discuss that here ,only to be chastised by .... geoff , i have read countless remarks over numerous forums about your car stereo installation and countless people have called you a scam artist time and time again . Not me ! But you have convinced me thru your banter and stand up reputation., so with that i digress . Geoff Kaitt for president .!!! |
Oleschool wrote, Geoff, i have read countless remarks over numerous forums about your car stereo installation and countless people have called you a scam artist time and time again . Not me!" Uh, you don’t seem to have any trouble repeating ithe remarks, do you? Better lay off the sauce. I have never installed a car stereo in my life. Hel-loo! |
randy-11 126 posts 10-26-2016 2:18am http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Machina-Dynamica/Falls-Church-Maryland-22042/Machina-Dynamica-False-cl.... ripoffreport.com itself is a ripoff. Anyone can libel anyone on that website. I make no false claims, Poopsie. |
randy-11 127 posts 10-26-2016 2:22am http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=2228 Obviously on the Internet anyone is free to say almost anything. Now, I’m not saying everyone who takes the time to write such garbage is a pinhead. What next? Are you going to turn me into the FCC? |
What Acts are Considered Deceptive Trade Practices in Virginia? The Virginia Consumer Protection Act lists more than 50 prohibited practices involving advertising, sales tactics, disclosures, return policies, and other aspects of commercial trade. These include, but are not limited to:
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randy-11 129 posts 10-26-2016 2:30am "What Acts are Considered Deceptive Trade Practices in Virginia? The Virginia Consumer Protection Act lists more than 50 prohibited practices involving advertising, sales tactics, disclosures, return policies, and other aspects of commercial trade. These include, but are not limited to: Misrepresenting that goods or services have certain quantities, characteristics, ingredients, uses, or benefits." Lil Randi, keep repeating to yourself: "I'm not a pinhead." |
sauced would be an understatement, i would have to be tripping on acid to believe in a teleportation tweek working , oh ya thats right i dont even have to be home when its done . That jamacan women from the psychic hotline would be proud ... ahhhh chillldd .. and one last request oh great one if we could be so blessed as to have a pic of your walkman placed on a cutting board ? I will make it my screensaver but please include your magic stickers in the pic . 🙏 Have a nice day |
mapman 13,827 posts 10-26-2016 4:35pm Lots of things get exposed all the time and nobody seems to care. Either people are numb these days or some things are just not significant enough to loose any sleep over. Or both. Whatever it is there is lots of it going around and some will naturally find ways to profit from it. Whoa! What? When did this thread turn into a pinhead convention? More babbling from a self righteous and not overly bright old man. |
Lots of things get exposed all the time and nobody seems to care. Wikileaks for example. People either don't read or are asleep at this wheel....very sad. |
PRoblem with Wikileaks seems to be that the sources are questionable and nothing to assure material is authentic. There is nothing to prevent material obtained from being doctored and how material is obtained seems very shady . But its things like that that contribute to the numbness. There is rightful questioning of the "mainstream media" as well. At least there are many players there so hard to totally obfuscate things though many try. Beats a single government run media at least. |
mapman 13,828 posts 10-26-2016 5:19pm PRoblem with Wikileaks seems to be that the sources are questionable and nothing to assure material is authentic. There is nothing to prevent material obtained from being doctored and how material is obtained seems very shady . That’s precisely what the Dems are counting on, that people will think the emails have been doctored. Unfortunately it has been demonstrated they have not been doctored. Brazil at the DNC found out the hard way when she tried the "it's been doctored" defense several days ago, unsuccessfully. |
That’s precisely what the Dems are counting on, that people will think the emails have been doctored. Unfortunately it has been demonstrated they have not been doctored. Brazil at the DNC found out the hard way when she tried the "it's been doctored" defense several days ago, unsuccessfully. Those damn Russians! |
And furthermore, (from Internet analysis of the doctoring charge by Dems) "So why doesn’t the Clinton campaign provide some evidence that emails have been doctored, like publishing original emails? Experts pointed to political calculation. By saying the emails may be inaccurate generally, the campaign can plausibly deny certain facts that the emails reveal. If they offer proof that a particular leaked email is fake, however, that risks giving the impression that any emails they do not refute are accurate. Or they just might not want the original email to become public for any number of reasons. "It boxes the campaign into a bad spot," _______ said." cheers |
And furthermore,Never mind the fact that a public server was in the mix....;) |
agear OP 1,188 posts 10-26-2016 7:45pm And furthermore, (from Internet analysis of the doctoring charge by Dems) "So why doesn’t the Clinton campaign provide some evidence that emails have been doctored, like publishing original emails? Experts pointed to political calculation. By saying the emails may be inaccurate generally, the campaign can plausibly deny certain facts that the emails reveal. If they offer proof that a particular leaked email is fake, however, that risks giving the impression that any emails they do not refute are accurate. Or they just might not want the original email to become public for any number of reasons. "It boxes the campaign into a bad spot," _______ said." cheers Never mind the fact that a public server was in the mix....;) not sure what you’re referring to. Clinton’s server was a private server set up by the guy that refused to provide testimony to the investigating committee. The issue is that her private server was not secure. AND that there were classified emails on the server. Hel-loo! |
not sure what you’re referring to. Clinton’s server was a private server set up by the guy that refused to provide testimony to the investigating committee. The issue is that her private server was not secure. AND that there were classified emails on the server. Hel-loo!That’s what I was referring to.... |
OK, back to business. A brief survey of vibration isolation and coupling devices by Galen Audio is linked below. Note that Golden Sound DH Cones which are the extremely hard NASA grade ceramic cones are mis-identified as from DH Labs. Also notet that the Galen Audio survey is by no means complete as there are many important isolation devices missing, including but not limited to Vibraplane, Minus K (negative stiffness), Symposium, Halcyonics, the new Townshend iso devices, Shun Mook Diamond Resonators, bicycle inner tube, an example of constrained layer damping device, an example of mechanical (steel) spring based device and Mapleshade’s system of air dried Maple plate and brass cones. The survey does not consider hybrid solutions such as spring and roller bearing combo, dual layer mass-spring devices. https://www.gcaudio.com/templates/isolation%20devices3.html cheers, Geoff Kait |