Direct Drive

Where do I get 3 phase when my house is only single phase? Surely AC motors are asking for trouble.

As I said. "The new Technics" this includes the SL-1200GR. slotless, coreless, 3 phase. Some versions available right here in NZ for $3000. 

The reference class Technics SL-1000R is available here in NZ for $31,999 ( Under US$20,000 ) 

The Pioneer P3 and the Victor TT-101 with slotless and coreless motors, also appear to be 3 phase, but I cannot be sure. Same would apply to the big Sony's 

If you widen the category to just 3 phase...pretty much every Technics DD ever made.

For vintage DD tables I look no further that Victor, better known to most as JVC.

My TT71 motor drive unit is a beautifully crafted and precise operating DD table that uses a DC motor. It's a 12 pole, 24 slot DC brushless motor with a frequency detection circuit that uses a 180 slot frequency generator yoke with a magnetic disc and a printed circuit board with 180 coils printed on it. Needless to say, speed is very accurate and wow and flutter is very low.

Most folks don't realize that Victor invented the modern quartz locked direct drive motor system. Victor was a engineering company that shifted it's focus from audio to video in later years and became leaders in that field as well. Victor supplied motor drives to other companies as well, Micro Seiki being one of them.

BillWojo

@dover 

"Any of the vintage use DD's use 3 phase motors ?"

This caused me to try to think for a moment of one that isn't at least three phase, and I'm coming up empty. 

A local dealer dealer just mentioned the Fender x MoFi PrecisionDeck Limited Edition Turntable is in stock.

For looks alone Fender's iconic Sunburst is truly amazing.

Differences between turntables often comes down to the cartridge.

In this case it is the Mofi MasterTracker Cartridge, which is almost 25% of the total cost.

 

“Differences between turntables often comes down to the cartridge.”  The same cartridge will sound different in a different tonearm on a different turntable.  The same turntable will sound different with a different tonearm and cartridge.  These variables are not trivial. And your general statement leaves out the tonearm entirely.

@pedroeb

Three phase is easily obtained by driving a 3 phase motor with a 1 phase, and tapping the 3 phase power inputs. Viola, 3 phase power. But 3 phase is more complicated than it looks, and so is better left alone.

But it’s pretty much academic if you have a two phase motor with a quadrature motor controller, that is, producing sine and cosine. Then run the motor with sine and whatever mixture of sine and cosine gives the smoothest results. Pretty much the same performance as 3 phase with less grief.

And must agree with Lew on this. Turntable is most important, tonearm next, cartridge last. IMO. Anyway, you can’t get close to top performance from, say, a 10K cartridge with anything less than a first class TT and tonearm, say 50K or preferably more. My own tonearm adjusts azimuth to less than 1 minute of arc, and just this evening I found myself changing over a +/- 2 minute range with clearly audible results. Not many arms can do this, and unless they can, cartridge performance suffers.

@terry9

Thanks for your thoughts.

I've been thinking about tone arms with azimuth adjustment as I believe the stylus' axis needs to be perpendicular to the record even if it means the head shell is not at all parallel to the record.

My own tonearm adjusts azimuth to less than 1 minute of arc, and just this evening I found myself changing over a +/- 2 minute range with clearly audible results.  Not many arms can do this, and unless they can, cartridge performance suffers.

@terry9 - How do you measure these small angles and what tonearm are you using?  Isn't any tonearm capable of infinite azimuth settings if it has a rotating headshell (or rotating arm wand for linear trackers) that locks into position?

Thanks for agreeing with me, T9, but my point was not that the TT is most important; it was that flippant generalizations, like “differences between turntables…” are not helpful and may be misleading. And of course you can’t leave out the tonearm.

@pedroeb 

"Where do I get 3 phase when my house is only single phase? Surely AC motors are asking for trouble."

Two entirely different things.  Phase does not necessarily mean AC, and AC does not necessarily mean sinusoidal.  In these instances we're primarily talking about BLDC motors.

@lewm  Yes, what I wrote was ambiguous. I meant, "I agree with Lew (about TT and tonearm being important) AND TT is most important ...".

@pedroeb  Absolutely. Which is also why some mechanism of keeping the record flat is so important. Vacuum hold-down is effective but cumbersome, but a reflex clamp is just as good for most records.

@ketchup  My tonearm is an air bearing DIY with rock solid shafting and precision adjustments in all directions. The actual fine measurement of azimuth is from a fine scale counter marked in 100 micron increments, but capable of repeating to within 20 microns. Since the beam is 254 mm, resolution is calculated quite accurately by the small angle relation tan ~ sin ~ angle in radians, and 20 microns corresponds to about 30 seconds of arc. Adjustments on this scale are not sufficient to impair horizontality much at all, and so I have azimuth on the fly. Adjustment is secured by a brake.  

The TT > Tonearm and mounting method for these two items are all equally important.

A poor functioning TT will not allow the Tonearm to present to it best.

A poor functioning Tonearm will not show the TT when at its optimum performance to be presenting at its best.

A poorly thought-out mounting method will not enable, either TT or Tonearm, if both optimized in their design and setting up, to present at their best. 

When this Trilogy of mechanical interfaces is produced to a standard that is sympathetic to the optimised function of each.

It then makes sense to concern oneself about the other ancillaries to be used, i.e, Cartridges and the remainder of the Signal Path. 

My experiences have shown myself, that a sub £1000 Cartridge can prove to be as attractive in use as a £4000+ Cartridge when used on an optimised TT > Tonearm Set Up with careful consideration put in place for the Signal Path materials.  

OK the Technics 1500 is working and I’ve bought a few records. Unfortunately I am having a problem with the phono preamps that I had in storage as they both don’t seem to be working. I knew one was problematic but was disappointed that the other isn’t producing any sound, as it was fine when last used but hey, it’s been in storage for 6 years. The tt has a built in phono preamp-glad I opted for that— so that is what has been used. I also picked up a used Project usb preamp for about $30, as I am intending to digitalize some lps, and it does work but predictably sounds like you know what when just used as a preamp alone, but at least the fact that it works let’s me know that there isn’t a problem with the output of the tt itself.

So using the included pre amp I am impressed with the speed stability of the table. Also these used recordings sound dead quiet. However the volume is meh. I have to push my Cary SLP-3 preamp to its limit to get a volume that is about 80% of my normal listening level.

  So I want a new phono preamp but I have kind of hit the budget at the moment.  I am thinking of something in the 200-$300 range hoping that I can at least get to a normal listening level.  Yes, I have read the threads here that suggest the phono should cost as much as the tt, but reality is intruding.  I don’t see this as ever being more than a secondary source for me anyway.  I am going to ask a bricks and mortar store if they will let me home demo something in that range

You might be able to find a used Parks Puffin in that price range. 

Parks Puffin goes for just a bit more new and does have a volume control but I’d like to audition it first.  The Cambridge Audio phono amp is also on my list 

There is nothing wrong with the set up you are thinking about.  It will reliably play records and last for years.  The difficulty for you will be that it will sound inferior to just about and cd player you might listen to so you are kind of setting yourself up to always prefer digital.  You need to know yourself and understand your expectations.  If you just want to be able to play records that may come along and treat the analog as a secondary source then a Technics 1500C and Ortofon Red is just fine.  But it will not, repeat NOT, allow you to hear the full potential of analog reproduction.  Not even close.

Here ya go!

Vincent PHO-8 Phono Stage MM/MC w/ Outboard Power Supply | Audio Advisor