Dirac without losing resolution

I have a Minidsp.  Most recordings that I listen to are not above 24/192.

For the ones that are, I use a different input on the DAC than the one that connects to the MiniDSP.

Yes, I lose the DSP benefits with those recordings but they still sound amazing.  It makes me wonder if most of the benefits of DSP occur in the standard resolution ranges (which is where 99%) of all records live).  Perhaps the super high resolution records overcome my room limitations because they are just so open.  Can’t say.

  This doesn’t answer your question, but I recommend trying it for yourself 

I believe the RME DACs are limited in sampling rates when using it's DSP functionality for EQ and other features ,.   There is just not enough processing power to process the incoming data and perform DSP.    These limits start at 384k and higher.   It passes DSD content untouched , no DSP

Same thing with room EQ on eversolo streamers.   Except they are limited to 24/48k.   

the issue is that I can’t seem to find a way to avoid limiting the resolution to 24/192 or even lower with most dirac endpoints.

AFAIK, DL is limited to 24/192. So what?

Yes, I lose the DSP benefits with those recordings but they still sound amazing. It makes me wonder if most of the benefits of DSP occur in the standard resolution ranges (which is where 99%) of all records live). Perhaps the super high resolution records overcome my room limitations because they are just so open. Can’t say.

I can. What DSP/DL does has nothing to do with resolution. It is as capable with high resolution (>24/192) as it is with 16/44.1. Super high resolution has nothing to do with speaker faults, poorly matched speakers or room effects, all of which are addressed by DSP/DL.

You might call it a trade-off between the two but, in my experience, the improvements wrought by DSP/DL are much more significant than those due to increases resolution beyond 24/96.

Thanks for all of the feedback.  I agree that most of the source material is within the limits of these dirac devices.

For those of you that are using it, how do you have it connected?  Ex between the streamer and dac?  If so, which connectors are you using for the input and output?

I was hoping to at least connect my PC via its USB to the minidsp but not sure if it even has a USB input.

Does dirac need to work in the digital domain?  If not, can I connect the analog output of the dac to the input of the minidsp?

Dirac needs to work in the digital domain . . . that’s why it’s called DSP (digital signal processing). That kind of processing is not feasible in the analog domain. Until recently, processing typically was done at 48 kHz or 96 kHz, so 192 kHz is current state of the art.

Some DSP devices can be fed with an analog signal; however, it is converted to digital before processing and then re-converted back. So I would not advise doing DAC before Dirac, as you’d be adding a DAC-ADC cycle to the signal processing. In my experience, the fewer conversions, the better.

Thanks again for the confirmation.

That still leaves the question as to which connections for the input and output to at least get the optimal resolution.

The answer already given is digital and the particular nature would depend on what is available on the specific miniDSP and the HiFi Rose devices chosen.

Let me try and be more specific as I now understand that it needs to be digital.  My PC currently only has USB.  I couldn't clearly confirm if the minidsp devices have USB in and USB out.  That is why I was asking those that are using these devices.

Name the miniDSP devices you are considering.

I am open to any dirac "endpoint" but have been directed to the SHD Studio.

It looks like that is limited to 96kHz.

my guess is that I could connect my pc (or hifirose rs130 in the future) to the usb input on the shd studio.  The output would probably need to use the spdif or aes-ebu to the topping dx9.

It looks like it also supports tidal connect so I might be able to connect the shd studio directly to my network via the ethernet port.

the rel 31 sub is currently connect via the amp speaker outputs per rel's recommendation.  It looks like I could change the sub connections to connect to one of the outputs of the shd studio if I wanted to play with those settings.

so I have narrowed my questions to the following (thanks to everyone's help):

1. mahler123 mentioned that the minidsp that he has applies DSP up to 24/192.  Which minidsp product is able to do that?  the shd studio looks like it is limited to 96kHz:

Digital Signal Processor 32-bit Floating point Analog Devices SHARC ADSP21489 / 450MHz Internal sample rate: 96kHz 

2. the dx9 dac's spec show that the spdif and aes-ebu have the same limits:  up to 24/192

is there a recommended choice between the 2?

3. does dirac further limit the DSP to 48kHz regardless of the shd studio specs?  ex. are the specs for the shd studio of 96kHz referring to their own processing vs dirac?

4. are there any other dirac endpoints that might get better results than the minidsp shd studio?

thanks again for everyone's help!

I am open to any dirac "endpoint" but have been directed to the SHD Studio.

It looks like that is limited to 96kHz.

Typical of miniDSP stuff.

the rel 31 sub is currently connect via the amp speaker outputs per rel's recommendation.  It looks like I could change the sub connections to connect to one of the outputs of the shd studio if I wanted to play with those settings.

Having the sub directly and independently accessible to DL is a good idea.

are there any other dirac endpoints that might get better results than the minidsp shd studio?

Why not just run DL in your PC?  I've been doing that for years and it is capable of 24/192 (in as many channels as one could wish.

Perhaps the new Auralic Aries S1 can be updated for Dirac Live soon. 

I think I will take kr4's advice and load dirac suite on my pc.

I ordered the umik thingymajig and will initially test with REW.

Then I will use the dirac trial to see if helps.

thanks again for everyone's advice!

I also looked into using the new nova from trinnov.  I could connect that between my streamer (hifirose rs130) and either my dac or directly to an amp with xlr inputs.

I could still utilize my dx9 dac as a headphone amp as it works pretty nice with that part.  I would connect the I2S on the rs130 streamer to the I2S on the dx9 dac and listen with the headphones.

I haven't found many folks using the trinnov nova for 2.1 listening.  I think that device was designed for studio monitoring.

Although it does seem to be able to work for my use case.

@jpmomo - If you do try the Trinnov, I for one would be interested in your impressions of sound quality and ease of use.

I did reach out to Trinnov HQ as well as a local pro audio distributor.

Not much luck yet.  Still waiting to hear back with any confirmation or even a quote.

The distributor did suggest that I place the Nova after the DAC so that I could separate the sub from the mains.  This would be done via XLR outs 1-4 on the Nova.

The potential issue with that is a stream manipulation of the following:

d/a (at the DAC to the analogue XLR in of the Nova) - a/d (at the Nova) - d/a (out of the Nova to my amp and separately 2 x XLR out to my single sub)

That sounds unnecessarily complicated.

a simpler set might just be:

streamer - nova - amp 

there would only be 1 d/a inside the nova and I would be able to separate the mains from the sub. 

I started to play around with REW and some EQ app on my w11 workstation.

It worked ok but Tidal was a little finicky with those apps and setting Exclusive mode.  

I have the topping driver loaded into my pc but wanted to avoid using windows sound driver when playing back tidal through my external dac (topping dx9).

tidal has a setting to allow my external dac to do any conversion aka exclusive mode.

I will give DL studio a try this weekend.

Yeah, it's best to minimize the number of sequential ADC and DAC steps. At least, that's what my ears tell me.

On the other hand, if crossovers are done in the digital domain so there's only one conversion, a separate DAC is needed for each channel (mains and subs), meaning a multichannel DAC is a necessity. They are built into products like the miniDSP SHD, NAD M66, Anthem STR, and so on, but when doing it building-block style, that's a consideration.