Diamond Stylus Enters the 4th Dimension

You should be able to get replacement from Elusive or directly from Charisma Audio. I have dealt with Charisma Audio, nothing but stellar customer service. Hope you have a back-up cart while you await replacement. 

Seems like a bad glue job, 4 months of vibrations shook it loose.  Nice it has a warranty, could have happened 1 month after warranty expired, like several of my Sony cameras!

A NUDE diamond is a whole miniature diamond, inserted or glued to the cantilever.

Some are a smaller diamond tip glued to the bottom of something that is itself inserted or glued to the cantilever. that’s two opportunities for glue to go wrong.

That bites. Happened me with a rare Decca Grey Garrott Bros. But I had manage to send it bouncing across a record. Funny that I didn't know the diamond had been ripped off leaving a naked clasp like an empty engagement ring. The metal prong played reasonably well but with some noise. 

Right. In this case the diamond is glued to the very end of the cantilever. All high performance cartridges use a nude diamond now. Many are pushed into a hole in the cantilever. This is not possible with boron. It is too brittle.

@noromance I'm pretty sure that could not be good for your records. I always keep my lift up when not in play so I can't inadvertently do that. 

@lalitk I do believe the importer is Musical Surroundings. I've never heard of Charisma Audio.

@mijostyn Yeah, it was a stupid mistake of temporary gross hamfistedness. I was adjusting VTA with the arm in it’s friction clamp from which it escaped. I played half the side before intervening. Record seemed completely fine when played on other table.

^^^^Sorry, I got my vendors mixed up. I am going to be auditioning Charisma’s Signature One Moving Coil Cartridge very soon. 

http://www.charismaaudio.com/?page_id=4268

@lalitk do let us know how you like it. It looks like pretty standard construction, boron cantilever, stylus glued to the end just like the one I just lost:) 
Still waiting for a response from Elusive Disc. 

mijostyn

did you have wine and/or cocktails while listening to music the previous evening? :)

Dear @lalitk  : Good that will be only a listening session. The designer likes ruby material for the cantilever instead than the way superior Boron but listen it can be a good audio experience for any one.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

There are many reports on the net about a Stylus Losing Adhesion from the Boron Rod Cantilevers that are used.
I have a Cadenza Black with a Stylus that has separated from the Cantilever due to a loss of adhesion.

I have found a solution for this situation, and am happy with the proposals on offer to get it back into service.      

I broke the @#$% cantilever myself on my Clearaudio Talismann        I replaced it with AMG Teatro

Those cantilevers that hang out in the open like that are asking for it for sure. 
jjss49, afraid not, but after the acid I took wears off I should have another look at that cantilever. Maybe the stylus will grow back.
pindac, thanks and what I was thinking, a failure of the adhesive. Do you have any references for that? Clearaudio warns against using any solvents when cleaning the stylus so I have only used a dry brush.
Still no word back from Elusive Disc. Patience is a virtue   🤯

Sounds like the glue holding the stylus to the cantilever let go. One question, did you use one of the Onzow type bubble cleaners with this cartridge? They have been known to eat cantilevers and stylus, although with the proper handling protocols, even those can be safe.

No, just a dry brush.

I've had one cartridge failure and I have a local friend that's has had one -- caused by a violent drop onto a record in my case, and a fuzzy sweater sleeve snag in my friend's case. In both cases the stylus popped clean off the boron cantilever, which remained intact. The glue bond to boron seems to be one of the weak points of the cartridge assembly -- the other weak point is cheap thin-walled aluminum pipe cantilever, which you often see bent or crumpled.

But that definitely SHOULDN'T have happened to you in the absence of shock or trauma! That sounds like a bad glue job. 

I bought a second hand Van Den Hul cartridge and experienced the same thing. The seller refunded my money and I sent it off to Van Den Hul for a rebuild.

I've snapped the cantilever off my Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood not once, but twice. I'll never buy another cartridge where the cantilever is that exposed. 

Buy something from Sound-Smith, Peter Ledermann. He repairs
stylus tip when you break them. Most do not. PS his stuff is good!!

If you Google Stylus has separated from a Boron Cantilever, there are a variety of Cases to found with differing information.
A search for Cartridge Model may well show up added information, as I found on my owned C'b, I referred to previously. 

There are also reports to be found on Broken Boron Cantilevers, but I don't see this being my case.

With the discovered information to evaluate.
 I chose to use Macro Photography to capture images of the C'b Cantilever End to assess if it was a Loss of Adhesion or a Broken Boron Tip.

The witnessing that the Bevel End on the Boron Cantilever was almost a Perfect Flat Surface, I believed a Loss of Adhesion had been the cause of the detachment of the Stylus.

Note: The disturbing amount of contamination witnessed on the Cantilever and Housing, especially where the Cantilever Enters inside the Housing was surreal.

The Rebated Side Walls of the Housing, Cantilever and Bobbin ? 
was covered in a excessive build up of granular particles.

I can only believe these will be effecting the freedom of movement, and a loss of performance will be the result.

As a result of this discovery, I am intending on doing the same inspection of my other rebuilt MC Cartridge.
It will soon have about 200 Hours usage, and if there is any contamination evidence, I will send it with the C'b for a Inspection and if required a Thorough Clean. 

The Macro Images were forwarded to a Repair Service for a evaluation from a Technician.

The reports returned from all contacted has been very promising, and the offer of a repair was made.

One Service rejected the opportunity to carry out any work,
as their report, has been very clear about the added risks for the Rebuild, because of the compromised surface to adhere a Stylus onto.
An additional operation of a Cantilever Exchange on the
C'b Brand of Cartridge that I own, is imposing an increased risk to a successful operation.
As the internal Parts for this Brand are not off the shelf items.
After my reassurances offered to the Rebuild Service, we were able to maintain a communication on the possibility of a repair being undertaken by their service.

I can now get a repair done using various services and a variety of methods.

I wish to avoid the Bonding a 'New Stylus Only' onto the insitu Cantilever.

I am hoping to have a New Cantilever and Stylus with a improved method for the setting of the Stylus, as the C'b was left without a Stylus following approx 600 hours of usage. 
In my mind, I had this as a 1200 Hour Cartridge if given the ideal working conditions, before a concern for the performance of the Stylus was to be questioned.

I hope the above helps with helping the OP to evaluate when making a decision on their present situation.
     

Dissolve Adhesive Story:

I have a Vintage Audio-Technica AT440ML, microline on aluminum.

Unused for 20 years (I preferred brush feature of Shure V15VxMR)

Recently revived it. The cantilever, and up into the body of the cartridge was FULL of black junk. FULL

I started with Stylus cleaner, got some junk out, but still a mess after several attempts.

I grabbed a can of spray Contact Cleaner, watched thru my shop magnifying light, it dissolved the junk off via it's chemical formulation and the spray force. Several rounds, spritz, wait, spritz. Cantilever still a black color, and surface 'rough' viewed magnified.

Finally, I saw the final layer of textured black 'skin' peel away from the aluminum cantilever. It seemed like spraying Brake Cleaner.

What have I done? Did I dissolve the suspension? Dissolve the adhesive? What did I have to lose?

Next, a play off against the Shure with new Jico SAS. Amazing, sounds great, it's on my Office Vertical TT, Mitsubishi LT-5V. Less dust up here.

The question for Soundsmith would be are they going to warranty this or charge me for the repair. I'm not sure if they can get a Gyger S stylus. Remember, this is the stylus and cantilever of the Goldfinger. Elusive Disc's exchange charge for this cartridge is $1200. My worry is that they are going to say I damaged it, I just do not know when. My comeback will be then it could not have been a very serious incident and the stylus should have been able to take it. 

I bought a second hand Van Den Hul cartridge and experienced the same thing. The seller refunded my money and I sent it off to Van Den Hul for a rebuild.

I’ve snapped the cantilever off my Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood not once, but twice. I’ll never buy another cartridge where the cantilever is that exposed.

One might consider the Teo Audio MM carts.
They are built to equal or exceed the MM’s being discussed.

They also have user replaceable styluses. Styluses that can be purchased anywhere and at you leisure, and at the best price you can find.

It is the body of the cart and the motor therein that is key. It is the custom motor and body that is key.

And a money back warranty for the first time buyer of the basic unit, if you don’t like what you hear.

One of the first purchasers is using it in the interim, as they have sent their Ortofon A95 away for a Ortofon re-tip. Now that’s a low self noise cartridge if there ever was one.

The Teo Cart has to put up with that previous cartridge as the inevitable comparison. Pretty rough standard to meet, right out of the gate.

He called the Teo Cartridge, "A Triumph". (thread over at canuck audio, it’s a no guff comment from a hard core 250 transaction audio and music fanatic)

Basically it’s an all win no lose trial of the cartridge which is on on the table.

When they become more well known, the trial period offer will be withdrawn.

Thanks for putting up with the post, and reading.

Just for yuks I took USB microscope pictures of the cantilever and posted them on on my systems page. I think I know how it failed. There was no glue between the end of the cantilever and the diamond, just the surrounding glue which was very thin on one side. Eventually, it just let go. The diamond should be fully bedded in the glue but there was not any on the cantilever side. They are positioning the diamond against the end of the cantilever then just placing a dab glue on it, The glue does not get into the joint. Any woodworker will tell you this is a bad way to do it!

@teo_audio, do you have specs on the cartridge? How much are you asking. Pictures?

@mijostyn  Your photo of the cantilever tells the whole story. It seems clear that there was an incorrect gluing of the stylus to the cantilever. A clear manufacturing defect, IMHO. This is something that the manufacturer should make right for you.
BTW, I like your modded Acoustat 2+2's, I used to own Acoustat 3's with the modded C transformers back in the day. 

@daveyf , I'm using the Onzow for more than 10 years on my cartridges (Ortofon Kontrapunkt Blue first and Cadenza Bronze recently) with no issues. I guess that most of the problems arise from user mistake. I've also used for many years the Last Formula 4 without any damage to the cartridge (Shinon Saphic, Kiseki Purpleheart, Carnegie One, etc..).
I've seen diamonds gone from the stylus on several cartridges, last week a customer brought in a Grado Reference Platinum, s**t can happen!

@katylied I know a number of dealers who are now refusing to stock or sell the Onzow cleaner. I’m pretty sure  the horror stories with the Onzow result from what you say...user error. I use one on my Lyra, along with the Last Stylast, and both do work quite well. I think one has to be careful though with the Onzow.

That could definitely rip your stylus off. (the Onzow)
Daveyf, the ultimate was 3+3's. I could not afford them back when they were available and they did not make very many of them, but you could stack 3's. When you make the speaker 8 feet tall it metamorphs from a lamb into a tiger. The basic characteristics remain just a lot punchier, louder with a larger sound stage. The problem with 2+2's is that they are very selfish. They do not have quite enough horizontal dispersion. If I had the 3+3's I probably would not be lusting after Sound Labs 845's....as much.
Hopefully will hear from Elusive Disc today.

@mijostyn  I think you are referring to the Acoustat 6's when you say 3+3...is that right? I had a friend who used to own the Acoustat 8's. They were huge! Required an extremely large room, which he had, and were not that easy to drive. I thought they were a good speaker, but I also thought that stacked Quad's were far superior, and for a lot less $$. 
I always lusted after Quads when I owned my Acoustat's...
Not so much today..:0)

Good news. Sam Arnold from Elusive Disc called to tell me that Ken from Musical Surroundings wanted me to email him the USB Micro pictures of the cantilever and he would send a new cartridge right out! Sh-t Happens.
It is what you do about it that counts.

daveyf, it was 3+3 and 4+4. All of them were 8 feet tall. The Acoustats were worlds tougher than Quads. It is almost impossible to blow an Acoustat. I have personally been party to the destruction of three Quads. This is no comment on current units just the old ones. As for sound quality it depended on how you drove them. Given a powerful class A amp the Acoustat 3's could sound just as good as quads. Once you get to the 8 foot guys it should be no comparison as the sound stage is larger and more detailed than stacked quads which do not form line sources. Again you need a high test amp. We have not even talked about subwoofers yet. My ancient 2+2's with subwoofers will do 110 db all day long. I certainly do not need larger speakers for volume reasons. I rarely go above 95 dB. I would really like better horizontal dispersion which Sound Labs speakers offer. Finding 3+3s is virtually impossible. If I could find good clean panels I could make them but more than likely I will switch over to Sound Labs. 

One last note.

Ken Bowers of Musical Surroundings is sending me a new cartridge with a return label for the old one just based on the USB micro pics you can see on my system page. You could not possible ask for a better performance. Kudos to Elusive Disc, Musical Surroundings and Clearaudio. 

@mijostyn I think you are right, the Acoustat 6 and the model 8 were in fact doubled up three’s and fours. I seem to remember that they were not called 3+3 or 4+4 though. I did think that the stacked Quad’s were more revealing and accurate in their timbre and midrange reproduction.
I could never get my Acoustat 3’s to really sound that great, the Maggie’s that I sold to buy them, where in my system far superior sounding. The Maggie's were just so much more accurate in their bottom end response and imaged with greater precision. At the time i was using a Counterpoint preamp and a Melos tube amp...perhaps that was the issue??

I use the DS Audio ST-50. On my Dynavector Karat 17DX. Is that similar to the Oznow?

Yes daveyf your problem was the amp. They did much better with class A SS amps. They also had to be aimed right at you unlike the Maggies. The bass was never that great. You either needed subwoofers or one of the 8 foot versions to get decent bass. I had Monitor 4's mounted on top of RH 
Labs subwoofers. That was a very potent system The 4's were using Acoustat's high voltage tube amp. But I didn't fall in love with the Acoustats until the 2+2's. A full spectrum line source is a thing to behold.
Everything becomes life size and the projection is much better. I went to Apogee Divas for a while. After 6 years out of frustration I returned to the 2+2's were I have stayed for some 20 odd years. Only the tall Sound Labs speakers are of interest to me. I would not mind a little more horizontal dispersion and efficiency. The other advantage of these speakers is no crossover. They are truly full range although IMHO they do much better when you take the bass away from them. The digital cross over I use can be dialed in perfectly. 

Some time ago J. Carr explained difference bewteen cantilever
materials. The (only?) advantage of aluminum cantilevers is
that stylus can be pressure fitted in. In ''all exotic kinds'' the 
stylus must be glued in. By those one must avoid fluid cleaning
obviously because of fear for disolving the glue. Those who ''know better'' and still use fluid should not complain. 

This is the advice that is given and I only used a dry brush. However the glue they are using is undoubtedly a cross linking resin of some sort like epoxy which once cured will not dissolve in any common solvent. UV can attack it but that takes decades if not centuries. 

Terrible event/anecdote.

O.P., I hope you get this fixed promptly & inexpensively.

@desktopguy, the new cartridge arrives tomorrow by FedX along with a shipping label for the broken unit. Cost to me = ZERO!