My neighbor has a Tesla...it looks really crude. Panels don't fit together well, seats are bare bones and are uncomfortable. He let me drive it...phenomenal pickup, but I will remain happy in my Porsche Cayman R |
What's wrong with Tesla? Seems like a lot better car than a Chevy Volt. |
$40,000 for an amp and STILL have no peace of mind!
How much do you have top spend to be able to relax and stop worrying about it all? |
Gore is involved in both Fisker and Tesla. |
I'm fairly certain that Fisker is the car company Gore is behind. The Karma is a good-looking car. |
"I find the economy doing the best it has done in 5 or 6 yrs."
Bwahahahahahaha!!! (9.1 % unemployment)
"Tesla's are what is smart."
Bwahahahahahaha!!!
Tesla - "A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000."
If you don't like Fox, try the WSJ. But only if facts matter more than your feelings. Tehehehe.
I just hope Dan's new company does better than Tesla and Solyndra. :)
Maybe if Dan claims his new amps are "green" and the copper cooling fins create a venturi effect big enough to cool the planet - maybe, just maybe - he can get a crony capitalism loan worth hundreds of millions of taxpayer's dollars also.
I am not the 99%. |
It's funny I would think on this forum people would discuss what the amps sound like and I can tell you first hand they sound awesome! I don't know what I was expecting but they were a pleasant suprise, very few amps are in this class of musical abilty, control and astonishing detail with the soundstage, the soundstage is huge. They are much more powerful than the size would suggest. Dan said he was planning on some bigger amps too down the road after the preamp, phono and integreted. The wilson's he was using in the demo dip down to 2 ohms and the amps had no problem with it. I have several Krell amps, however I have stuck with the FPB750MCX amps rather than upgrade?? to the EVO amps. I was looking to get an EVO2 preamp but may wait a bit until I hear more of this new preamp of Dan's?
Technically I would say yes class A is going to sound better than Class AB but you have to hear these momentum amps before you make a judgment, they really are that good. I'm not a wilson die hard, I have MBL's and Genesis speakers that I love but the new amps made those speakers sound better than I have ever heard them before by a wide margin, yes more detail and definately a stable large soundstage but they were so musical doing all that.
It's funny at these shows I hear so many high end products that really do not sound very good and not natural at all. Dan's new stuff just draws you right into the music instantly, there are always very few rooms that do that. I remember walking by the Hales room years back, MBL and a few others that just get the music right and you know it when you hear it.
So much time is spent on here stating opions about the money and technology, for me its the sound first, technology and then how bad is it going to hurt? Should I get my son a new car or maybe that new preamp lol..Being all middle class I have to make those tough choices. |
"I don't think this is the proper place Auxetophone." Correct. Not questioning what you know, right or wrong, but as you sense, there are many reasons for not continuing with this story in this public forum with what is essentially hearsay and one-sided.
Were the new amp and preamp at RMAF? Or is this waiting till CES/The Show? |
Verneal you have no CLUE what you are talking about. Rwwear, all I am saying is you can not accuse someone of something with out stating facts about your accusation. Especialy when you know they will not defend them selves on this forum. Credible dictates that you explain your point. Like what went on? What is the chain of events? We may see the other side and not agree with your opinion. Then again we may agree with you. But how could anyone know if you just make a claim without backing it up? Not trying to offend you just understand your point, |
Class A SS sounds better than A/B. |
Koegz, I don't know who you are referring to but if it happens to be me, I know from past and present employees of Krell some who happen to be friends of mine what went on. True it may be a one sided view but I am confident by the chain of events that is for the most part accurate. |
Obama did not cause it but his programs magnified our problems. |
Obama caused the collapse of Wall Street? invented credit default swaps and debt obligations, convinced O'neil at Merrill to ignore the ten-fold increase in exposure to sub-prime mortgages, which led to the hemorraging of constuction and manufacturing jobs, the implosion of the mortgage and housing market and the world-wide debt induced recession? I'm confused, but I haven't watched Fox News for a while. Well maybe Jeb will come to the rescue and provide a path to sustainable, productive growth for the economy and the resurgence of high-end audio, he can always lean on his brother for good advice on steering the economy to prosperity, hey, wait a second.....
I know Wayne Colburn did a lot of design work on Pass preamps, but I was not aware of any significant design work done on the amps (circuit design, not casing)other than by Nelson Pass. |
"ECONOMICS OF OBAMA"? You kill me, what happen to the previous 8yrs. I find the economy doing the best it has done in 5 or 6 yrs. You better do more research and stop listening to sound bites and fox news. They will kill your mind and your ability to think for your self. Muscle cars are what is ridiculous. Tesla's are what is smart. $40000 amps and pre-amps tend to be worth it. And highend is what makes this hobby great! There has always been alot of compition in the highend and always will be. |
Not all amps have been designed by by Nelson Pass himself. Same at Krell. |
Compettition is good. High end is hurting with the economics of Obama. And $40,000 amps and pramps is ridiculous. I wish Dan luck-he will need it |
I find your innuendo disgracefull! either you know something for FACT or you do not. To make a suggestion like yours without facts or backing up is wrong. Who are you? Did you work for Krell? Do you have some intrest in Krell now? Either prove your point or say nothing. I have no intrest in krell any longer nor am I in the market for new SS gear, but I never had an issue with the co while Dan was head. I owned differant Krell gear over 15yrs. Your accusation is ridiculous, there is always someone with a complaint. So put up or shut up! |
That might very well be true, but Dan is the one the "public" knows about and for the most part the sense is that the connection between Dan the man and Krell the company is that they are one and the same, rightly or wrongly. Not sure what will happen to the Krell brand and product line in the future, but it is not the same without Dan (which does not mean it can't be a better company with better product, but it is just not the same Krell post-Dan). There may very well be a depth of design talent there to keep Krell viable moving forward. |
Dan was an important designer but not the only one at Krell. |
I'm not sure what the P/E firm bought, whatever they now own isn't Krell anymore is it? Krell is whatever Dan was designing and brining to market, without him it seems whatever is left is a shell moving forward - I can't imagine buying a Pass Labs amp not designed by Nelson Pass and thinking it is a Pass amp. Something nasty must have been going for the investors to push out their most valuable asset. |
I don't think this is the proper place Auxetophone. |
Rwwear, can you elaborate? Very curious about what happened. |
I know a lot about what happened at Krell and how some of their most dedicated employees were treated. I think Dan is a great designer and engineer but he did some bad things to people that really loved him. |
Having been, untill 5 months ago and only because I wanted tubes, a long time krell owner, with 8 differant krell amps and 3 or 4 krell pre, ending with the krell evo202 and evo600's. I for one am looking forward to seeing his latest designs. I believe he deserves the best of luck and my/our well wishes. It always amazes me how some knock things they have no real experiance with. They just believe false/inacurate/missleading/missrepresentations/lying/dumb "sound bites" they hear! |
I remember Dan when he was an audio salesman in Niagara Falls NY-Transcendental Sound.
Too bad so many are set against giving the man credit for staying in the game.
I hope this is just the tip of the ice berg, and hasn't anyone heard of trickle down tech?
I am sure he will make gear for the less fortunate vociferous crowd,you know the folks who are against anything that costs more than what they can ever afford.
I hope all those who are discontented with Dan's new efforts and the high end in general, sleep well tonite.
Perhaps they'll end up like Dan did, outsourced and have their job,lif'e work taken away from them.
I know Ralph Karsten knows what that feels like. |
Made in the USA.
I believe that was one of the big reasons for the change in management. |
Have to apologize for my above post. Turns out that I reached the wrong conclusion - the new D'Agostino amp is indeed a Class A/B design, not a Class D. |
You mean much lower frequency. Typically between 0.5 - 1.5 MHz. |
Class-D amps have the trasistors running at much higher frequency. |
These are almost certainly going to be Class D amps - given the compact size, and that the website boasts of the output transistors running "at a blistering 69MHz". |
Well, if these designs are going to end up being Class A, hard to tell, then I can see the being quite a bit more than the Pass X series, but you would think in line with the XA.5 (some the best SS amps I have ever heard) so maybe 15-20K for 100 Class A watts in monoblock. I think Dan D tended to push the wattage enevelope, whereas Nelson Pass seems to be comfortable with world class amps with as little as 15-30watts (and more if you really want it, or need it). I get the sense if the Vaporware were $5000 he would get much less "ink" and ink - so let's see where his new venture takes him, I'm sure he has a following based on him being the designer, and new Krell product just won't be seen as being the same, as Marantz wasn't the same after.... |
Hey pubul57 it could be (He+$$yrs = Pb*ears)/0 totally undefined as well. |
Hi Pubul57 - Interesting, you could be right. I would venture to guess though regarding trickle down, you'll see a stereo amp with a real world "trickle down" price of a $19,995.00.
Still more then twice the price of a Pass X250.5 or a even a Classe CA2200 :o) |
Just re-inventing the wheel.
Dan if you're out there, how about something innovative like hi-rez music on flash memory with no moving parts like in some netbooks now? |
(He+$$yrs = Pb*ears)/12ax7 |
"I just wonder if this Amp will be a huge upgrade in performance over say an ~10K Pass labs X250.5 or SimAudio Evolution W-8?" NO
I don't think the strategy is to sell these, why the economy does not matter, but it sure will get a lot of press and photos from the show and a story to tell about new innovations and insights from years of designing amps and at some point this new vision will trickle down into products priced to sell - so much about this industry is having a story to tell and differentiate - this product seems to set the table with its look and price point. |
Or maybe V=(p$-r$)x(Tu/Yro)/(He+Le x ear) |
"Law of diminishing return!" Is that like the law of gravity? Or more like the M formula? I mean, what formula or law do you use to measure return? How about this one? V=$xyrs+channels/listeners) + (age x pw/yrsL) / FM ? |
/***
I just wonder if this Amp will be a huge upgrade in performance over say an ~10K Pass labs X250.5 or SimAudio Evolution W-8?
***/
Law of diminishing returns! |
42K? Wow..for an opening product for a new company in this economy. I guess I am missing something here.
I just wonder if this Amp will be a huge upgrade in performance over say an ~10K Pass labs X250.5 or SimAudio Evolution W-8? |
Agreed - Petra D'Agostino: "We are not currently soliciting US dealers. Dan's official launch is at CES in the Venetian. We hope you stop by and see the new products!" |
A great $5000 Class A Integrated would have sent the message that the baton had passed to a successor company with a viable sales path; not sure this product is about making sales, at least not right at the start. |
I wish they launched a cheap integrated instead ! |
I was also told they will be coming out with speakers as well. |
In the case of Krell, the takeover may not have been unwarranted. |
The new amp looks great especially for someone working in the metalindustry like myself , thats the way to deal with a " takeover " , im enjoying the EVO 400 s every day , there is no substitute for lots off clean power with lots off reserves , dynamic wise.
I hope to hear them someday |
I have no idea how these amps sound, but I really like the look.
As far back as I can remember, every iteration of Dan's amplifiers have stopped me in my tracks upon first sight. His designs always reminded me of what Wayne Gretzky said when posed with the question that he wasn't as tall, big, quick, fast, agile, strong, tough, or mean as the average hockey player yet obviously distinguished himself as a true all-timer, "Most people skate to where the puck is. I skate to where it's going." Indeed, Dan always seems to point to where things are going. |
Deano & Jaybo right on, add: living in the rust belt. |
Very interesting that the website did not mention much about sound or technical details. Lots of pictures though. |
They look really nice, as long as the copper color looks better in life than in the photos. I do think the copper heat sinks are an answer in search of a question.
Existing amps with big heat sinks do that in order to exchange enough heat to the air - I suspect these amps are smaller because they don't run the heavy bias of Krells, so they don't need to dissipate all that heat.
Nothing wrong with that per se - after all, this is an opportunity for D'Agostino to head off in a new direction, like Nelson Pass did after leaving Threshold.
It'll be interesting to see how the new house sound compares to Krell - warmer? more detailed? less "relevant", whatever that means? |
