Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Happy to report that I've been successful in my quest to acquire a used Decware Zen Triode 25th Anniversary amp (about six months old) and the Enleum 23R amp (new).  The Decware should be here in a few days and the Enleum will leave Korea shortly.  Will be careful to break in Enleum for 200-300 hours before going to battle.  Honestly, after reading about the synergy these two amps have with the Nens, I'm totally lost as to which might emerge the winner or if that might even be discernible--the differences boiling down to a matter of taste.  There's a third amp in the mix--well a fourth if you count my "reference" Vinnie Rossi L2iSE.  All I'll say about it now is that it's a highly regarded SEP with about double the output of the Zen. This should be interesting.

Wishing everyone a wonderful, healthy, prosperous, and Audio Filled New Year.

@stephendunn Thanks, Stephen. Credit goes to all.

Looking forward to your reports on what's "up your sleeve" in the coming year!  

Never heard as in not aware of.

FYI, I spoke with the two California dealers the other day and neither one had heard of the V2 driver. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Note ,, **Never heard** as in , they are stepping away from this V2 til Cube can starighten things out, Smart move, And I know neither like what Cube is up to here.

 

@mozartfan I have no clue how you draw that conclusion from the statement that was made. You are not even in left field somewhere. You are standing out in the parking lot looking the other direction. That is a mind numbing lack of reading comprehension on full display.

FYI, I spoke with the two California dealers the other day and neither one had heard of the V2 driver. Guess it will be a while before they have them.

Happy New Year everyone! I just want to say that this thread has been a bright spot over the last two not all together bright years and continues to engage, amuse and enlighten. David has done a great job keeping us on task and sharing our discoveries. Now we are in the throws of deciding if there truly is a Santa Claus in the second version of our beloved 10 inch driver. I’ve got some new tricks up my sleeve to report on in the coming year (not including upgrading? to V2) which are the result of conversations with vinpic. Cheers!

V1 or V2? Still a great speaker either way.

Agreed, and I strongly believe that preference is dictated by associated audio system components and the signature or voicing sought by the listener. A First Watt F5 amplifier owner  may prefer one, and a Shindo amplifier owner may prefer the other.

Charles

V1 or V2? Still a great speaker either way.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Mozartfan,  You can’t fault Cube Audio for refining their product further.  If they didn’t try to develop a 15” single driver speaker, we would never have a perceived better Nenuphar.  If you apply your logic to every manufacturer of audio equipment then every manufacturer would be in the wrong for refining their products.  Be glad the technology has advanced in full range reference single driver design.  I don’t want to speak for Cube Audio, but I am sure they have considered the impact of the new advancement on existing V1 Nenuphar owners.  Can you image them getting 5000 requests at once for the driver upgrade and how they could handle such a request given their existing work force and resources besides being able to fulfill existing orders for all of their other products.  You might consider contacting your local dealer or distributor and inquiring about a possible upgrade path.  JMHO.

abd1,  Just for fun, see if there is a polarity switch on your Streamer, DAC or Preamp.  Change the phase setting and listen.  You might not have the phase set properly.

Well if the V2 out performs the V1,, well then we will see some half off offers from  Cube on the V1's.

Or are they going to only sell the V2.

Delete V1 from their inventory,,and we are stillllllllllllll waiting to 

1) see new pics of the V2

2) read what is the **all new*** V2 cone material made of....what IF the pics of the V2 look almost if not identical to the **old version** V1???

Then what are we to assume???

Lotssss of Q's for Cube to answe,, as folks paid big bucks for these speakers.

Some ~~Fiasco~~ like this old V1, vs NEW V2,,might in the long run do more harm to the company than good.

Faith and confidence starts to take a  hit. 

And furthermore,,,what IF,,we get another review, which has some ((issues** with the above review,,, then what..??.

Who are we to believe.

Review with the 2 thumbs up,, or the audiophile who gives 1 thumb up, one down, and  goes on to say,,,**all in all, I prefer the old model version V1 better***

Then what???

This thing could start to get real ugly, real fast. 

vinpic29 posts 12-26-2021 12:55pm No change, still amazing ☺️ V2 it’s a welcome evolution (no revolution). As I write this I am listening to Grant Green’s Idle Moments masterpiece. With the V1 the Gibson and the saxophone edged on the shiny/dominant side creating a sense of imbalance vis a vis the other instruments. The V2 adds meat to the bones of the bass / drums / cymbals whilst making the Gibson/sax sound more truthful (at least to my ears). The overall balance and listening pleasure goes up one to two notches depending on the piece of music. The most impressive difference I’ve listened to date has been on Willem De Vriend’s Beethoven 7th (DSD file played off the MU1 ssd). The V1 was a bit too bright and did not reproduce accurately the dark/grave strings base (I did know it was there by listening thru my Susvara’s). Spent months trying to tweak my system to no avail. V2 got everything in the right place without losing an inch of the Nenuphars’ mid-range magic. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WEll now jusr wait 1 minute there

Are you going to tell us,,,

folks who ~~just purchased~~ past year lets say,,, the V1,,,with consideration of your ***accurate and unbiase test listenings*** That these V1 owners are now left with a speaker that is **a bit, if not to say a significant nuances*** less than what the V2 delivers????

If your listening tests are indeed accurate and spot on,, then seems to me to be ~~~FAIR in ALL THIS~~~, that Cube would offer free ship both ways, and free new cones at a nice easy going price cost to their loyal and haappy,,well once were happy,, now left in a lurch... Cube owes its owners some recompense for what they thought was the best Cube had to offer,, the V1. Now we hear the V2 is really *The Real Deal**. Something just aint right here. Something is smelling fishy if you ask me. Cube ought to take the hit,,and secondly,, why is Cube CONTINUINGG to list the V1 w pics.

Almost no info on the new V2 on the web site???? WE all need answers, Cube has alottttt of explaining to do on this ,,,to put it nicely,,,Conundrum,,otherwise know by another more common street slang term. You guys can do what you want,,, go at your own risk.,

,and expense.

@jollytinker Ha. You just gave me flashbacks to having my soldering iron pulled out of my hand by the magnets on my accuton drivers.  Fortunately just to the magnet and not towards the driver.  Super fun times!

Also wise to have someone else do the swap if one has an ICD or Pacemaker. : )

+1 to @jollytinker 's advice.

4mm and wise to do it horizontally. Some padding under so not resting on connectors. Stainless steel non magnetic hex is a good idea, thanks jollytinker.

@jollytinker 

Also, the magnets are so powerful that they can easily pull a hex wrench from your fingers when you loosen your grip even just a bit. The wrench will fly directly on to the edges of your whizzer cones with quite a bit of force. The simple answer is a non-magnetic hex wrench (believe its 4mm). I found one for 12 bucks on line and thought it was a small price to pay for the peace of mind.

This is wise and  worthy advice for sure.  That is some magnet!!!

Charles 

I haven’t seen any reason to be suspicious of Cube Audio. I had a good experience with them and the distributor when I needed to swap out a driver shortly after receiving the Nenuphars.

just a couple words about that: changing the drivers is easy in principle but it can be tricky to execute. The magnets are very heavy. I found it best if you lay the speaker on its side before beginning surgery. Obviously you want to do that on a soft rug. Once you remove the bolts (ONLY the four outer hex bolts, the inner ones hold the spider together), the driver can slip from its position suddenly. If you’re close to the floor you have more leverage on the driver and a shorter way for it to fall if something bad happens.

Also, the magnets are so powerful that they can easily pull a hex wrench from your fingers when you loosen your grip even just a bit. The wrench will fly directly on to the edges of your whizzer cones with quite a bit of force. The simple answer is a non-magnetic hex wrench (believe its 4mm). I found one for 12 bucks on line and thought it was a small price to pay for the peace of mind.

+1 @khragon 

I like to know the process too and have been contemplating upgrading, I would love to get a chance to listen and compare v1 and v2 before sending the v1 in, or decide to keep the v1 if v2 sound didn't work out.  I do enjoy the v1 now, although I do like the impressions of the v2 thus far.

I like to add that Jon at Refined Audio and Grzegorz have been very supporting when I reported to them one of my driver have a small dent in the phase plug that I didn't noticed until 6 months into ownership.  Grzegorz were quick to respond and worked with Jon to send a new pair of drivers out, at no cost to me.  I have no doubt that they will take care of their customers.

We, as in members and posters, have been dealing with Cube Audio and Refined Audio (the U.S. Importer and Distributor) from within the U.S.  Others who have posted from Europe are using their own dealers, etc.

My questions were for the benefit of others reading this thread.

Jon Ver Halen and Grzegorz Rulka have been a phone call or email away for me; as they are for anyone else interested.

Suffice it to say that we are also clear on the value of the doubts from someone with zero exposure to the company, it's products, and it's distribution chain. 

YOu see its things like this that leave me in doubts about **Cube Audio**. Something just aint smelling right about this company. Here they are blabbing their **all new cone is , so much better..**, yet give no details on how to go about taking old drivers out, shipping drivers to who knows where,,, who will pay ship cost both ways.. which carrier to use. Pre paid label?? How long turn around time, give or take 1-2 days..etc etc. Cube is leaving their fans in *The Lurch**, ,,canoe up s**t creek, w/o a paddle. IMHO I wouldn/t go for it. Its too risky,

What is risky? You can either use the distributor, dealer and probably deal with Cube Audio directly. I am pretty certain once initial contact is made all of the details are explained. I see absolutely nothing here to be suspicious of.

Charles

Can you share more about the process for ordering and returning the V1 drivers? For example, do the V1 drivers go back to the dealer or do they go back to Cube Audio? How much time does the owner have to return, should they want to A/B a few times? What is the cost if one wants to hold on to the V1 drivers? Etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

YOu see its things like this that leave me in doubts about **Cube Audio**. Something just aint smelling right about this company. Here they are blabbing their **all new cone is , so much better..**, yet give no details on how to go about taking old drivers out, shipping drivers to who knows where,,, who will pay ship cost both ways.. which carrier to use. Pre paid label?? How long turn around time, give or take 1-2 days..etc etc. Cube is leaving their fans in *The Lurch**, ,,canoe up s**t creek, w/o a paddle. IMHO I wouldn/t go for it. Its too risky, you might like the *old* style cone better.

David, my suggestion is go through the USA distributor and he will be able to give you prices for the conversation and cost of drivers etc.

@vinpic  Thanks!

Can you share more about the process for ordering and returning the V1 drivers? For example, do the V1 drivers go back to the dealer or do they go back to Cube Audio? How much time does the owner have to return, should they want to A/B a few times? What is the cost if one wants to hold on to the V1 drivers? Etc.

@toetapaudio   Robert, perhaps you can share more on this as well?

Yes 10 inch drivers.  
To change drivers: remove 4 bolts for the existing driver, remove it from the cabinet, unplug the wires (its a plug), then reverse the process for installing the new driver. Drivers are heavy, you need someone to help. I’d say less than 10’ to upgrade both speakers.  

Agreed, thanks for the help. I moved the speakers further back and apart and its sounding very good. Still toed in, almost crossing at MLP. Have to go out of town for work Monday so I'll continue to make adjustments when I get back. Still also looking in to some panels to help with reflection points.

@vinpic  Thanks so much for sharing your impressions and comparative findings, as an owner, of the V2 and V1 versions of the Nenuphar drivers. It's wonderful getting owner feedback and I hope more owners making the swap post their findings, like you did.

Can't beat... : )

with V2 I am just happier

I'm assuming you have the 10 inch drivers. Is that correct?

Want to recognize @mikeg  @cal3713  and @alexberger  for helping out @abd1  with his room and speaker placement situation. I found their posts helpful and I learned from them as well. Thanks!

@abd1   My apologies for the late response. My wife got called back to work early which changed our vacation and plans.

A few thoughts...

1. it's not the speakers, which is important to state.

2. If you haven't already done so, I recommend getting a friend to help you with moving the speakers around so you can evaluate from the listening position as the changes are made. An audiophile friend will allow for two sets of ears on the changes / improvements heard from speaker movement.

3. For clarification, the toe-in with the cross over intersecting in front of me was for illustration purposes to make another point. My standard setup has the speakers intersecting behind my head.

4. Though our individual speaker and listening positions may be helpful, given YOUR room, I would only use them as a rough guide.

5. You may have already done so, but if it were me...given your room...I'd start with extreme near field positions for the speakers and you to eliminate first reflections. THEN, I'd move the speakers wider and your listening position further back by small increments UNTIL the point that the first reflections come into play (rear their head). THEN pull that position back in (slightly). IF you can live with that arrangement, you should be set. 

6. IF NOT, look into room treatment as others have mentioned. See if you can get a dealer loan for Stillpoint Aperture II panels with stands. They are pricey, but effective. They allow for easy movement (to test effectiveness) and temporary placement...which may be an advantage in your particular room and for your aesthetic needs. At a minimum they will inform you of the degree your room is involved and give you a starting point to address.

As is usual, I'm multi-tasking at this time of day....I'll follow up with more should I think of additional points.

Are there visuals on the process for swapping the drivers? Guessing you just remove some bolts for the existing driver, carefully remove it from the cabinet, unplug the wires (assuming its a plug and not soldered), then reverse the process for installing the new driver? Guessing the drivers are fairly heavy with all of those magnets.

Thanks Toetapaudio.  Charles, fair enough.  That’s why I shared what my others components are so you can get an idea of my starting point & preferences.  Between us I was perfectly happy with V1… with V2 I am just happier 😁

To put things in perspective, if you have a pair of Nenuphars the single biggest upgrade you can do is to add their active Sub 12’’ (or two if your room is larger than 50sqm). Srajan has spent a ton of pixels on the many advantages of such a combo, I can witness that the impact on SQ is an order of magnitude higher than the difference between V2 and V1

Good work vinpic 👍. 

@vinpic

Btw, when prompted, Srajan preferred the V2 (scroll down few letters till you find the one on Nenuphars V2)

https://6moons.com/lettersandfeedback

Yes he did and I’m not disputing that at all. If my reading of his review was accurate, he seemed to imply changing to the v2 drivers might very well necessitate changing current components in one’s audio system to match properly the v2 signature/character.

Your comments suggest that this may not be required in all v2 driver swaps. It is rather system dependant. Some v1 owners ’may not experience the brightness that you occasionally heard. Those with different source, preamplifier, amplifiers may feel that they have sufficient "meat on the bone " fullness already. That is my only point.

Charles

V1 and V2 back and forth. It takes 2 people only a few minutes to change the drivers.  And yes, it’s my personal judgment 😎

Btw, when prompted, Srajan preferred the V2 (scroll down few letters till you find the one on Nenuphars V2)

https://6moons.com/lettersandfeedback/

@vinpic

it does not lose anything (the mid-range magic is fully there), sound is thicker across the entire spectrum (more presence / more meat around all bones) which increases the sense of naturalness & flow. I did not have to tweak my system in any way (MU1-Tambaqui-Icon4se-Amp23r or SIT3, LessLoss cabling), the V2s are here to stay!

I have to say that listening assessment is quite informative. Actually more encouraging than what I inferred from Srajan Ebaen. Of course two different audio systems heard by different pair of ears. But is this not always the case when subjectivity trying to communicate to another sonic/music listening impressions?

To know that it retains the "Midrange magic" with added meat on the bone is an accomplishment. Of course depending on one’s current audio system voicing the additional meat on the bone may not be required. So as always the final judgment is individually determined by targeted sonic needs and goal.

Charles

@vinpic do you have both the V1 and V2 for back and forth comparisons?  Granted there's a long lag time, an hour? needed to swap the drivers.  Or is your assessment going by audio memory?

Thanks

No change, still amazing ☺️
V2 it’s a welcome evolution (no revolution).  As I write this I am listening to Grant Green’s Idle Moments masterpiece.  With the V1 the Gibson and the saxophone edged on the shiny/dominant side creating a sense of imbalance vis a vis the other instruments.  The V2 adds meat to the bones of the bass / drums / cymbals whilst making the Gibson/sax sound more truthful (at least to my ears).   The overall balance and listening pleasure goes up one to two notches depending on the piece of music.  The most impressive difference I’ve listened to date has been on Willem De Vriend’s Beethoven 7th (DSD file played off the MU1 ssd).  The V1 was a bit too bright and did not reproduce accurately the dark/grave strings base (I did know it was there by listening thru my Susvara’s). Spent months trying to tweak my system to no avail. V2 got everything in the right place without losing an inch of the Nenuphars’ mid-range magic. 

Vinpic  Thanks for your impressions of the V2 drivers. You didn’t mention soundstage or imaging which I assume meant no change but just wanted to check. 

V2 drivers for my Nenuphars Monitors (coupled with a Sub 12) arrived 10 days ago.  Run them 24/7 for a week, then started listening seriously.  V2 is a more refined version of the original F10neo drivers: it does not lose anything (the mid-range magic is fully there), sound is thicker across the entire spectrum (more presence / more meat around all bones) which increases the sense of naturalness & flow. I did not have to tweak my system in any way (MU1-Tambaqui-Icon4se-Amp23r or SIT3, LessLoss cabling), the V2s are here to stay! 

I'm thinking about getting some GIK floorstanding panels to place at the reflection points along the wall with windows. Also last night I toed in the speakers heavily so they cross before the MLP. Made a big difference. Sound is very centered now and separated from the speakers, still very deep. Soundstage is smaller, but my speakers are about 8' apart so still pretty good. I'm guessing toeing in totally changed first reflection point.

Hi @abd1 ,

The problem in your room is the glass windows and door on the left, which cause very strong first reflections and ruin the soundstage and image.

You should try draping the windows on the left. It doesn’t have to be heavy curtains. Perhaps even a light tulle will suffice.

Regards,

Alex.

I know the room is odd but this is the space I have. I spent a lot of time listening yesterday. I also hooked up my Clearwave audio standmount speakers. They use a 1" accuton ceramic tweeter and are one of the best imaging speakers I've heard. They performed a bit better with filling the image more to the center, but still had some of the same issue, which leads me to believe its the room. I also pulled the nenuphars out more into the room. I haven't measured but looks to be about 24" from the wall to the rear of the speaker. That has helped with image depth and the speakers "uncoupling" from the sound. The image is still towards the left but that also might just be how it is in the room. I'll continue to play with some positioning today.

@abd1 This won't help with bass frequencies, but if you're wondering about the impact of your cutout, one useful technique can be to carry around a bluetooth speaker (obviously the closer to full range the better) and listen to how the sound changes as you move it into that space.  That can give you a sense of what frequencies are being altered by the reflected sound from your main speakers. (Note, this is also useful for testing room treatments like absorbers and diffusers).

abd1, I understand your frustration. This is my opinion but when I had the Acoustic Zen Crescendos that have a wide dispersion ribbon tweeter, the vocals where better focused in the the center most of the time. The Cubes speakers don’t have a ribbon tweeter but have many other significant advantages as a full range single driver loudspeaker. In my set-up I struggled with the same issue to a lesser extent. When I replaced my QNAP NAS drive with an AfterDark Roon Server, replaced my component isolation, lowered the noise floor by adding ac filtration, and added Stilpoint Apertures, the center fill improved greatly. I have my Nenuphars with 5 degrees of toe in, 11” from the front wall, 91” apart and I sit 10’ from the front baffle in a 15’ wide room open to a kitchen area. I’m going to point out the elephant in the room now. You have a difficult room to work with. The side wall(s) first reflections are asymmetrical and your room closely resembles a square. If you could position you system (speakers and electronics) in the bay window area, that would be more ideal but impractical. If you have a basement below the room, then you could locate your electronics down there while leaving your speakers in the bay window area. Before doing all of that, I would try David’s set-up and toe the speakers in so they intersect in front of your listening position.

FYI dimensions are approximate but pretty close. Picture also depicts two subs but I'm only using 1 right now.

@abd1  We are out the door headed to the beach. In Florida for a short break. I'll respond once we are back inside this evening. 

Your layout pics are super helpful. Hopefully, others will offer their perspectives and advice.

David, did I read that you toe your speakers in to cross before the mlp?

Here's some images/layout of the space. I have some other furniture in the room and a large area rug. I can't reconfigure the space (WAF). I've moved the speakers as wide as possible and as close, forward and back. I get some different results on different tracks but vocals tend to always be left sided. Being this is technically a dining room there is a cut out for hutch, which is where my equipment cabinet is. It's about 8' wide and 1' recessed. I wonder if that is creating some issues in the room, as well as the window area.