My "review" of the Nenuphar speakers has taken on a life of it's own. An ongoing (everlasting) holding pattern. : )
Recent adjustments to my system have reaped significant benefits. This means the work continues. There are additional changes and approaches on the table. An evaluation by a very experienced set of ears, this coming week, will be telling and informative.
A shout out to @toetapaudio for his efforts, guidance and help in squeezing more out of these amazing speakers. Thank you very much, Robert.
@dawgbyte have no fear about “coloration and potential potential lack of dynamics.” Quite the opposite actually and our speakers haven’t even been fully burnt-in yet. @david_ten has informed me that they need a minimum of 200 hours. I love the effortlessness and open nature of them, instruments and harmonics are more natural, bass very well defined and not overblown, greater detail but no harshness, very dynamic but smooth and open.
If you were in the UK we would lend you some but maybe the USA distributor could sort you out. What’s the rest of your system may I ask?
This has been one of the more interesting speaker threads I've read over the years. My curiosity towards single driver speakers has certainly been peaked. My only concern is coloration and potential lack of dynamics. That said, it appears that Cube Audio has done a good job of calming those trepidations.
The Nenuphars improve everyday, we have had them for about 3 weeks so far and have noticed them opening up even further. Hopefully we will have the Cube Magus’s in a few weeks to compare. We are also expecting the Bakoon 13R amps soon to try out with the Cubes.
Hi David, Fidata, as you probably are aware, is a server with CD ripping and transport functionality. Two models with 1TB and 2TB storage, priced at £6k and £8k here in the U.K.Use on its own or combine with a streamer, connection through LAN, such as one of the Lumins with or without built-in dac. USB connection to a suitable free standing dac if required.
As regards sound quality it is a very impressive digital source, the best so far that we and others have tried. There have been some good reviews here
We have the cheaper 1TB model in our demo system and understand from another Fidata dealer who has tried both models, the sound quality is very close. In fact one customer of his after auditioning both at home, decided on the cheaper model.
I do not know how the Fidata compares with the Pinkfaun 2.16x (11k Euro) or the new Sound Music Gallery’s Evo (16k Euro?) but would like to try of course. Another contender would be the 432 Evo. It’s more difficult to obtain review samples from these small specialist brands. Fidata is part of a larger Japanese company, quoting from our website
“The company behind Fidata is Japanese Company, I-O Data, originally established in 1976. The parent company is involved in the design and manufacture of all types of industrial applications associated with networking and data storage and OEM products in that field.
The work on the HFAS1-S10U started in 2012 but wasn’t launched until 2016. While the brand is new the people behind the design have been experienced in the field for many years. The core team is Akita Miyamoto (hardware), Shininichi Morita (chief designer), Yuiji Minagawa (software) and Yasunori Kitamura (production).”
I should also add that the Fidata employs a specific app, from their website
fidata Music App is an OpenHome-compatible control app engineered by fidata in Japan to bring the ultimate level of ease of use to network audio.
The user interface, which has been meticulously designed for maximum convenience, goes beyond track selection to allow users to freely switch servers and playback devices. Used with fidata's HFAS1 series, it provides a pleasant, PC-less environment whose functionality extends to hardware settings and manipulation of music files on storage devices.
It’s the best app I have used.
At present I’m preoccupied with testing the Cube Nenuphars and soon the Cube Magus speakers. Soon we should have the Bakoon 13R amp and a bit later their new dac hopefully. The Fidata hasn’t let us down so far.
@toetapaudio Fidata’s XS server is very much in the mix. My concerns with it are lack (?) of Linux support. I’m Chrome based - though I do see Android control. I’m also unsure about direct Roon support (though I can load / manage it from my end).
Sound quality and overall performance for the Fidata servers (I imagine) are undoubtedly excellent. I’d love to learn more from you about their two products and other server brands you have experience with.
The Pink Faun 2.16X is also on the radar, as is Taiko Audio’s SMG server. Both are much higher priced options.
@david_ten, I can wholeheartedly recommend one of the music servers made by Fidata. IMO better than other well known brands, most of which we have compared. There are a couple of European designs which sound interesting but we haven’t had the opportunity of trying so far but both cost more than the Fidata. I don’t think you would be disappointed with Fidata. We are using in a system which includes the Cube Nenuphars.
Steakster, I also believe that David's audio system sounds "absolutely stunning ". A first rate signal chain (Denafrips, Grandinote Genesi and Found Music 2A3 SET) and the purity of the Nenuphar. My gut feeling is that the level of naturalness, tactile realism and subsequently deep emotionally involving/connecting music listening experience is simply sublime. No doubt in my mind that this system pulls you into the music and keeps you there. IMHO this is more difficult to accomplish and is more satisfying than Hifi spectacular objectives. Charles
I estimate my Nenuphar speakers have 1500 hours on them. I kept precise numbers through early May and had logged 1100 hours as of May 7th. The EML 2A3 tubes have approximately 900 hours on them.
In addition to break-in, I have worked on improving isolation and grounding.
Next areas of focus are my Streamer / Player. I may move to a new brand or upgrade my current units. An in-home demo of a Server (being setup) should help decide direction. I will implement a full fiber optic network solution [I am 100% streaming] should I stay with my current server and player.
In the pipeline is a new Linear Power Supply (should be in system by the end of next week) for dedicated (and higher quality) supply duty for my Server. A full system power conditioning / power supply loan is in the works.
In case it isn't obvious, this is my way of saying that I am beyond pleased with the performance of the Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers as well as the components in support of them: Denafrips Terminator DAC > Grandinote Genesi preamp > Found-Music 2A3 monoblock amps. And committed to this system.
I estimate close to 750 hours of active and engaged listening time. The Audio Room serves as my home office (minimal, movable and height adjustable desk/seating in the 'sweet spot' and fanless (read silent) work electronics in an environment that measures in the high 40s for ambient noise, with the AC intake two rooms away serving as the primary culprit... when disabled: mid to low 40s).
Given my time and familiarity with the speakers, I'm ready to start writing a review.
I had the Nenuphars at home for a few weeks where I listened with my SET amps: Korneff 45, Fi X 2A3 and Line Magnetic LM805ia (805 power tubes); and non-SET amps: Linear Tube Audio ZOTL40, Schiit Ragnarok, and Nord One SE NC500DM MKII Dual Mono digital amp. I used my NAT Symmetrical line preamplifier when needed. With the Nenuphars, the 2A3 had the best overall sound at lower volume, but, as I cranked things up the Nenuphars liked the Line Magnetic and Linear Tube Audio amps. My source was a Mojo Audio Deja Vu music server and Rockna Wavedream DAC. Cabling was all Clearday. The Magus speakers I heard at Jon Ver Halen's house with First Watt SIT3 and F7 amps. His source was a Pass Labs preamp with a Metrum Pavane DAC, not sure what music server he had. He was using Duelund speakers cables which had me intrigued and impressed.
So, in fact, I was comparing the speakers in the context of completely different rigs, but their superb resolution, tonality and imaging came through in both instances.
Hi deepfield, Thanks for posting your listening impressions of the Cube Audio speakers. I do not doubt a word you have written. If I were to ever change my speakers the Nenuphar would be my choice. This Polish company in my opinion has raised the bar for premium tier single driver speakers. I'm also curious to know what amplifier you used to drive these Cube Audio speakers. Charles
I have heard both the Magus and Nenuphar. Not as much a difference as I was expecting! I heard the Magus after the Nenuphars, and they really wowed me. The Nenuphar's had more bass extension, but everything else impressed me slightly more with the Magus, so much so that I didn't even care about any bass that might be missing. The Magus are even faster than the Nenupars, with more air and treble extension. Like the Nenuphars, the treble and the entire frequency spectrum is wonderfully balanced and coherent, coupled with stunning resolution that I think really is state-of-the-art. These Cube Audio drivers with their very unique spiders are true innovations. While listening to them, its strange hearing such transparency and 3-D tactile presentation while observing their simplistic appearance. Listening to The Fairfield Four a cappella had more realism than ANY loudspeaker I've heard, they sounded so real in the room it was unsettling in a way. The Nenuphar's can play louder and are more forgiving of poor source material. I'm preferring the Magus now because their smaller size will work better in my listening room. I'm trying to decide whether to buy the Magus or buy the Magus drivers and put them a DIY sealed box with a subwoofer... leaning towards the DIY for flexibility in room placement.
Jon, importer of Cube Audio, is sending a pair of Magus to Steve Guttenberg for review!
Can anyone compare Magus vs the Nenuphar ? Apart from more lower octave extension in the Nenuphar, do they differ much in the midbass and above ? With a pair of subs, will Magus come close ?
Thanks and find it a bit strange that the preamp is only available in balanced Only? probably rules out using this preamp with my SET amp that is only in RCA. (using a adapter maybe not optimal?)
LTA offers great performance and value indeed! would not be surprised if their latest preamp $4500 competes with the Grandinote?
thanks for the link and sounds like the Grandinote is a nice preamp. do they offer RCA inputs or only balance inputs for their preamps?
have you compared to a tube preamp like a Linear MicroZOTL Preamplifier and your thoughts. LTA stuff is great and matches well with many types of amps.
Linked below is the latest review of the Grandinote Genesi preamplifier, from Mono & Stereo. It is the preamp I am using in my system for the Nenuphar speakers.
Cube Audio's website (regarding the F10 Neo driver in the Nenuphar):
"Cones and whizzers"
"Once we had the motor ready and capable to control heavier moving cones and suspensions mass, it was time to do the cones. Plenty of experience for experimenting with 8" drivers came in handy. We knew where to start with. But that was basically it. 10" is a completely different beast. For a very long time we were not satisfied with the sound. There was a time where we didn't have more bass than from 8" driver which is basically pointless. Multiple times we had a prototype cone geometry that on measurements was absolutely linear and looking amazing to the point that studio monitors could be really envy, but the sound was dull and boring. Those times were very frustrating. Sometimes we thought that it is impossible to do a really amazingly sounding 10" fullrange driver. But we never gave up and experimented more and more with even more drive every next day.
It was definitely worth it. The final design consist of 4 cones. One being the main cone and 3 whizzer cones. The smallest cone is responsible for highest frequency range. With only one standard whizzer we never would never be able to go up to 18 kHz with a driver that in proper cabinet reaches 30 Hz region. So adding that little whizzer, solved one of the issues that we had. But there were plenty more of them. When you add a whizzer to the cone, there is additional interference between the cone and the whizzer. The mini high frequency whizzer and the main whizzer got together really well and the sound was way better than without it. There was still a geometry issue present though. Its diameter, height, surface, geometry, stiffness, damping, coating all are a part of final sound equation.
To achieve the right amount of sound pressure in desired frequency region the most important of them all is geometry. There was one geometry that gave us amazing rich, colourful midrange, but on the other hand it interfered with the main cone in such a way, that a mods were pumping up mid frequencies. Since "shouty" vocals were not desired, we had to do something about it. Here's where the third whizzer comes into play. That is a very elegant solution to change the interference mods of the whizzer and the cone. Due to changed geometry and distance, amplitude of the modes decreased. As a result overall sound became sweeter, richer and more natural. At that moment we knew that this is the way to go."
More information on the driver design and approach here:
All speaker designers know what their speakers are and are not capable of, and all speakers are a collection of compromises. There is no perfect speaker - that's why there are so many speaker types on the market.
Whizzer cones are a useful tool to help redirect and disperse the high frequency energy from a single driver speaker. That's fine, but ALL whizzer cones change the response from the driver and add coloration. Maybe these guys have achieved a design and methodology that works better - I don't know because as I have stated I haven't heard these speakers yet. But based on what I have owned and heard up to this point, I will say that I prefer my single drivers to be whizzer-less. That's all.
I wouldn’t make the assumption that the Cube Audio Nenuphar suffers from some "common" whizzer limitation. Based on all accounts I’ve have been exposed to the Nenuphar is in a completely different category of performance/design success. Generalizations don’t apply here. Charles
@br3098 You absolutely right, whizzer is anachronistic part from cinema era and I don't now why is came to High End. How you compare the high quality tweeters to whizzer cone ?
I love single-driver and coaxial speakers and have owned several. IMO whizzer cones are a compromise and cause as many problems as they try to solve. Ex: (again IMO) the Omega 3 series sounds much better than the larger drivers. But they won't play as loud or as low. The Coherent line from Canada uses a different approach with it's Radian coaxial works great and doesn't suffer any "whizzer tizz."
Admittedly I have not yet had a chance to hear a pair of Cube Audio speakers but will at the first possible opportunity.
david this is a great thread! i get immense satisfaction from my omega speakers and decware set amp. i can only imagine what going up the the single-driver chain must be like. at least i can grasp the reality (:
David, I’m aware of how much you have enjoyed listening to the Tekton D,I. SEs and your genuine admiration of them. I’ve heard the SEs and can vouch for their excellent sound quality. With the Nenuphar you’ve moved into a very different direction /realm of speaker design. From multi driver with crossover design to a single driver crossoverless design.
The SE has really good coherency,openness and transparency for a multi driver speaker. These parameters are the purported areas of strength of a single driver speaker. Within this genre (single driver) there is a hierarchy of quality and implementation. By reliable sources the Nenuphar is in the uppermost tier for single driver speakers. They may offer a level of sheer purify that few or any multi driver speaker would be able to match.
Reportedly the Nenuphar has simply stunning good midrange purity/tone/transparency (speaker just disappears) without sacrificing exceptional performance in the bass and upper frequencies. Quite an accomplishment that many other single driver speakers fall short of achieving. Having become accustomed to this premium level of single driver execution/sound quality I could imagine that even a ’very’ good multi driver (with its necessary crossover components) may in direct comparison sound veiled and flatter/less alive.
The 10" driver used in the Nenuphar is said to be unique and superb with its very powerful magnet/motor assembly. I do not consider your comments of comparison a knock on the Tekton SE at all. It is competing against the very strengths of what highly executed single driver speakers are all about. Also factor in you are using the type of amplifier this speaker was designed to be driven with. Your Found Music 2A3 SET is an ideal choice. Charles
You carefully put together a different system that you are thrilled with.That shouldn't be offensive to your friends:)I'm happy with my Tektons,happy for you,and would love to hear your system.Thank you for the interesting thread.
@roadwarrior75 @steakster and others.... I've been reluctant to post on your comparative questions due to my discomfort in possibly offending my fellow Tekton brethren. I have also developed a number of wonderful friendships initiated because of the Tekton Design speakers. However, I need to cover this, so it may as well be now.
I encourage @charles1dad to offer his take, as he's been with me throughout the move to the new amplification and speakers. He is more diplomatic than I and is better at communicating these matters, especially since he is approaching this from a non-emotional perspective.
First, I've heard the same regarding the presentation / performance at Axpona.
In summary, @douglas_schroeder was prescient in this post on the thread exploring my options prior to the Nenuphar purchase:
"When you build the alternative system and get it tuned up you will question everything you think you know about your reference."
There is no better way to elaborate on what I need to share... Douglas Schroeder's post conveys it all.
My reference has moved and changed, and in significant ways.
I have nearly 850 hours on the Nenuphars and am closing in on 250 hours on the Emission Lab 2A3 Solid-Plate tubes. The rest of the system, including cabling, has many, many more hours on it.
For all purposes the system is fully settled, though there are areas I will be addressing in the near future. For example, further positioning efforts, a new IC termination that will eliminate the adaptor, isolation, etc.
Three nights ago I brought the Tekton SEs into my system. This was a short A/B and I will be conducting a more thorough one. My family has been visiting this week and my brother was interested in comparing the two speakers (the rest of the chain was identical).
He asked that we move the SEs out after a half hour. I pulled them out at the 2 hour mark. The SEs, in comparison [EMPHASIS: In Comparison only], sounded veiled, flat, slower, less engaging and involving than the Nenuphars. He commented on how incredibly real and natural the music sounded via the Nenuphars and he was astounded at the level of clarity and musical information conveyed. He was especially surprised by the bass performance and insisted that I was 'lying' to him when I told him there were no separate bass woofers or subs in the system.
Nothing about the SEs has changed. They are likely performing at their very best at this point in time based on my current system. What has changed is my reference and preferences.
I have not heard the Tekton PS12 or PS15, so I cannot comment on them.
heard the speakers at Axpona. and they sounded nice, but was not wowed by them,maybe the room/gear?
any updates on your pair and do the Cube speakers blow away the Tektons? was looking for a SET style speaker and the Cube was on the list and also the Tekton SET speaker
What an interesting design!They do look like flowers.Single driver designs intrigue me,but there's none to be found around here to audition.I enjoy hearing about other's experiences though.These are particularly fascinating.
Hi exlibris, I get your point and understand the subjectivity we all experience with listening. No doubt that both the Nenuphar and Odeon horns are excellent sounding speakers but presenting their own individual sound/sonic character. Charles
A very key aspect regarding the Nenuphar is it was designed ’specifically ’ to be driven by SET amplifiers with high output impedance/ very low damping factor (DF). I could imagine a perceived "dryness" to the sound of this speaker if the amplifier DF is more than required for this unique speaker. It would effectively damp the life and "soul" of an already very damped/controlled driver with its exceptionally powerful magnet /motor unit. I suspect one wouldn’t want or need a DF > 10 or so. Charles
Hi Charles, I don’t think that it’s the architecture of the amplifier that is the cause; I think I’m simply hearing the paper in the driver. I drove them with three different amps: my 2 watt Thomas Mayer 45 SET, a 150 watt Solution SS amp and, finally, with a 30 watt Unison EL34 PSET integrated amp. In all cases I perceived dryness. I need to stress that what I hear as dryness, others may welcome as neutrality and honesty. Everyone should listen to these amazing speakers and decide for themselves. In Herb Reichart’s recent blurb he says "... (the Nenuphars) have a direct, fresh, nothing-between-you-and-the-recording presentation." I would agree with him but to me it felt more like "nothing between me and the stylus."
A very key aspect regarding the Nenuphar is it was designed 'specifically ' to be driven by SET amplifiers with high output impedance/ very low damping factor (DF). I could imagine a perceived "dryness" to the sound of this speaker if the amplifier DF is more than required for this unique speaker. It would effectively damp the life and "soul" of an already very damped/controlled driver with its exceptionally powerful magnet /motor unit. I suspect one wouldn't want or need a DF > 10 or so. Charles
This thread is about the Nenuphar so I hesitate to talk about other speakers. I did demo a German horn speaker in the same system that I heard the Nenuphar. I found it shockingly good. My only decision now will be to purchase it or the model one above it. My search is over. I'll post about it over on thread that led to this thread. Let me just say again though how much I enjoyed the Nenuphar. I think the 6moons review pretty much nails it in terms of it being able to almost alter your state of consciousness. It's a heady experience and a very tactile one. Even the way it plays ticks and pops is fascinating - they dance around the room and it's like you can actually feel them on your skin. Prior to hearing the horns I was totally sold on the Cubes. I just figured I'd need a Koetsu or Benz-Micro and maybe some 300Bs to get rid of some of dryness and slightly 'bleached' quality of the sound and bring a little more warmth, soul, and testicular fortitude to the proceedings.
Exlibris, I really think Zu Druid 6 could be right up yr street. It may be a little fussier than the 5 on amp demands as 213Cobra contends, but Zu is a highly emotional and immersive experience. Try to get a demo.
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