There are more and more cable manufactures treating there cables now. Some offer this service for a fair price. I was thinking of getting all my IC, Speaker and PC treated along with the Power condintioner. Can anyone give me a before and after sonic description of the cryogenically process. Steve
Oh come on geoff, you must have been exposed to thermal analysis for cold temperatures in your Nasa days? I know I certainly had to do some crash course schoolin when I had to put something in space.
Space is of course much worse due to rapid heat/cooling, but at cryo temps, you are going to induce microfractures (feel free to Google), and can break bonds between dissimilar materials ...not to mention no guarantee of changing properties for good or bad.
The quote above is nonsense. But especially this bit
Cryogenic treatment is typically -300° Fahrenheit, and, in a way, is the reciprocal of high heat (flame forging). Either technique could help a knife, but would you subject a piece of plastic or polymer to a flame? Cryo is no better.
Right. To subject a piece of plastic to cryo is no better than to subject it to high heat flame forging. A dazzling display of logic, as Spock might have said. Or the Red Queen.
No one in their right mind would subject a piece of plastic to cryo!
Oh wait, what’s this?
Oh, its just a stack of CDs I had cryo’d.
Oh wait, what’s this???
Oh, just a whole CD player I had cryo’d.
So....
Right. The quote above is nonsense. Cryo is not like flame forging. In fact it is the furthest thing from it. Might not be the silliest post ever, but will give a lot a run for their money.
Oh, come on, all you negative Nellies, don’t be such a stick in the mud. 💩 Faint heart ne’er won fair maiden. Advanced audiophiles have been using cryogenics for twenty-five years. No big deal. Remember the Little Train that Could, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.” 🚂 Toot! Toot! And if you’re still too suspicious about cryo, remember, the home freezer is very effective for improving the sound, as I’ve been posting of late. Home freezing eliminates obsessive worry about micro fractures. 😩 Or maybe go to CRYOCONNECT.COM for Cryogenic Cables & Harnesses For Ground Based & Space Applications. Did LIGO use cryo? Bet they did.
Audio Cable companies using cryogenics, this list is not intended to be all inclusive.
If you want to make a bet about whether the majority of cables in Ligo were cryogenically treated (and not just used at cryogenic temperatures), I will gladly take that bet.
What are you willing to wager?
p.s. CRYCONNECT specializes in cabling and other assemblies that --operate-- at cryogenic temperatures, not treatment for room temperature use. Read more ..... post less.
geoffkait18,018 posts11-06-2019 6:01am Or maybe go to CRYOCONNECT.COM for Cryogenic Cables & Harnesses For Ground Based & Space Applications. Did LIGO use cryo? Bet they did.
Geoff, do you have detachment from honest discord. If we are to believe what you meant on this last post (which you will probably edit), then the statement below is false, since they don’t use cryogenics they use cryo treatment which you have now differentiated as not the same ..... ooooops.
geoffkait18,021 posts11-06-2019 6:01amAdvanced audiophiles have been using cryogenics for twenty-five years. No big deal.
geoffkait18,021 posts11-06-2019 8:32amI said LIGO uses cryogenics. Don’t get your bowels in an uproar or put words in my mouth. I just had breakfast.
I bet they thought of it. As a constant low temperature for whatever reason they thought it would help. Not cooling down and then bringing back to room temperature like Voodoo Cables and all others do.
Cold Fusion (trademarked by Voodoo Cable, it seems) is an interesting name. Cold Bonding, in a way. Some people use that name in more terrestrial applications.
atdavid, you seem a little sluggish this morning. Did you forget to take your Smart Pill? Can I suggest a reading comprehension refresher? I hate to be so judgmental with newbees but this discussion is turning into a Rope-a-Dope. Float like a butterfly 🦋 sting like a bee 🐝 Funny, huh? Yes, I realize comedy is subjective. 🤡
Yes, LIGO does cool things down. Just not in the way these cables are ooled down. LIGO seems to stay cool. Calling LIGO as a reference for benefits of cooling cables down for a short period of time is slightly misplaced.
You guys realize this thread is 18 years old, right? And since the OP hasn’t posted anything new anywhere since 2001, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he’s pretty much moved on......probably in more ways than one.
the electrical activity in copper when brought back to room temp will not be any better than with no treatment. ive done cross sections of copper/gold/silver/plat/irridium/plutonium/thorium/ etc in research for conductivity and transmission speed of the electron/hole pairs for semiconductor chip upgrades cause the time a Ghz signal enters a pc board to the time it hits the transistor junction in the processer does make a lag in the output. but that is only signifient in the GHZ freq range. totally silly effect in the khz and down. even high freq MRI magnets with cryo cooled power supplys are for the reason of lower resistance and no infulence in the resultant mri results- so if you think itsounds different its your $$ to waste. ive done it to liquid HE,H.O2, and colder.you may likely suffer more damage due to slip face kinda like embritlement in the lattice no matter how slow warmed up, the inital cold shock will offset the lattice a few minutes/deg. upsetting the outer 3-4 electrons orbit. yea. otherwise copper is ultra stabil electrically and mechanically. cryo for fe based elements is a totally different reason.
taken from Cu atomic info What is Metallography?
Metallography is the study of the structure of metals. It includes the techniques used to prepare specimens for examination, examining the specimen and interpreting the structures. Specimen preparation is an important part of metallography. A specimen must be appropriately prepared to ensure correct observation and interpretation of the microstructure. Specimen preparation consists of sample selection, sectioning, grinding, polishing, and etching. Adequate sample selection provides a statistically reliable description of the material quality. The number, location and orientation of the samples examined are important parameters in sample selection. Sectioning, grinding and polishing are used to prepare a flat specimen with a mirror like finish. Care must be taken during sample preparation not to introduce artifacts which lead to invalid microstructure interpretations. Sometimes it is beneficial to examine the specimen in the as polished condition. The as polished condition is useful for examining the microstructures of materials whose constituents exhibit large differences in light reflectivity after polishing. Porosity and inclusions are examples of features that are easily observed in the as polished condition. But most materials are etched to reveal the microstructure. Etching is a controlled corrosion process resulting form electrolytic action between surface areas of different potential. Etching reveals the microstructure of a material by selective dissolution of the structure. Specimens are then examined using optical and electron microscopes. There are also many other techniques used to characterize the structure of metals, but this article will concentrate on microstructural characterization.
its high electrical conductivity (59.6×106 S/m) and high thermal conductivity, second highest (second only to silver) among pure metals at room temperature.[10] This is because the resistivity to electron transport in metals at room temperature originates primarily from scattering of electrons on thermal vibrations of the lattice, which are relatively weak in a soft metal
Look, if we want to argue about 18 year old threads we will! ... but thank you for reminding us what idiots we are. I will go and hang my head in shame now .... over and out (of this thread).
thecarpathian702 posts11-06-2019 7:58pmYou
guys realize this thread is 18 years old, right? And since the OP
hasn’t posted anything new anywhere since 2001, I’m gonna go out on a
limb and say he’s pretty much moved on......probably in more ways than
one.
hemigreg The electrical activity in copper when brought back to room temp will not be any better than with no treatment. ive done cross sections of copper/gold/silver/plat/irridium/plutonium/thorium/ etc in research for conductivity and transmission speed of the electron/hole pairs for semiconductor chip upgrades cause the time a Ghz signal enters a pc board to the time it hits the transistor junction in the processer does make a lag in the output. but that is only signifient in the GHZ freq range. totally silly effect in the khz and down. even high freq MRI magnets with cryo cooled power supplys are for the reason of lower resistance and no infulence in the resultant mri results- so if you think itsounds different its your $$ to waste. ive done it to liquid HE,H.O2, and colder.you may likely suffer more damage due to slip face kinda like embritlement in the lattice no matter how slow warmed up, the inital cold shock will offset the lattice a few minutes/deg. upsetting the outer 3-4 electrons orbit. yea. otherwise copper is ultra stabil electrically and mechanically. cryo for fe based elements is a totally different reason.
>>>>Gee, that’s too bad. Must be mass hysteria or hypnosis. How else to explain all the many hundreds of thousands of cryod cables and fuses and vacuum tubes sold? Are all these cable companies that cryo their cables wasting their time and everybody else’s? Was NASA duped, too? OMG 😲
There have been papers, by real scientist (no for real), that have shown a several percent increase in conductivity in copper conductivity at room temperature after cryogenic treatment. What I don't remember (was a while ago), was what the initial purity of the copper was. I would not be surprised if the results are dependent on copper purity, hence if you are starting pure, there may be virtually no change. No indication this had any affect at all on high frequency, or any other useful property.
atdavid, eeyeah, my post was for those who were addressing the OP in one manner or the other. Perhaps you should read it again to better understand it. And feel free to call yourself an idiot anytime. No argument from me.
Geez, even a tiny little fuse sounds better after cryo. Cut me some slack, Jack! We don’t need a doctorate dissertation to tell us cryo is good for any type of wire. Cryo makes things perform better. I wish I could tell you, gentle readers, how many things improve the sound after they’re cryo’d. Unfortunately, it gets into areas I fear are beyond scope and might be a little bit too much for the naive and those just starting out. 😳 I certainly don’t wish to frighten or snow anyone. None of this stuff is in books. Hel-loo! That’s why the -10 F home freezer is way more mysterious than - 300 cryogenics.
Don’t steal, don’t lift Twenty years of schoolin’ And they put you on the day shift Look out kid They keep it all hid Better jump down a manhole Light yourself a candle Don’t wear sandals Try to avoid the scandals Don’t want to be a bum You better chew gum The pump don’t work ’Cause the vandals took the handles
As always, use this piece of knowledge during your next attempt to be witty and funny or at some cocktail party. You know, things insiders from NASA like to talk about.
Most people forget.......how to refer. When you don't understand sound, you can not understand audio. Most cables in audio are what we call; emphasis cables. That means that those who created them put the focus on certain frequency response. But....a cable needs to be as linear as possible
What all emphasis cables have in common is the fact that they all can not reveal all aspects of sound. And this can easily be proven by sound and stage. Even many fuses are emphasis fuses. And again the same limitations will occur as what emphasis cables show by sound and stage.
It is very easy to change sound and even stage by adding or changing a part of an audio system. But......the question is does this changement create an improvement. So you need to be able to reveal and observe all aspects of sound within 1 tenth of a second. As
your system needs to be able to reveal all those aspects of sound.
It is the complexity of sound that makes audio so difficult to understand and adjust. But you need to understand all the different aspects which influence sound and stage. As you need to understand in detail what sound is and on which properties it is being founded.
So even before you can judge one part of what you change in your system. You need to describe the full DNA (all aspects it owns and how these different aspects are being carried out) of each part in your system. After that, you need to describe in full detail the influence of the acoustic, electro-smog, magnetism and high-frequency noise on your sound and stage of your system. And it needs to be done independently.
Ain’t nothin wrong with that action! Your freezer is effective, inexpensive, controllable and a whole lot quicker that sending stuff off to the cryo lab and waiting to get it back, which can take up to two weeks. 🔄 Another big plus ➕ is there’s no thermal shock involved with the home freezer. Nothin says lovin’ like something from the freezer! 🥶 There is always something in my freezer, CDs 💿 mostly, but also cassettes, cables, portable CD players, headphones 🎧 , etc.
yes copper purity is paramount to make a few microohms decrease-but you can get 1000 fold improvement by upping gauge one size. even the cheap cca cable will show no active degretation if SIZED and terminated according to NIST and JAN spec. there are many papers and govt research on this. so now theri decision is to Not use cryo conductors in and space program,neclear reactor,wepons system,life support equipt. so why would any "sound equipt" benefit unless things are under spect to start with.
hemigreg Yes copper purity is paramount to make a few microohms decrease-but you can get 1000 fold improvement by upping gauge one size. even the cheap cca cable will show no active degretation if SIZED and terminated according to NIST and JAN spec. there are many papers and govt research on this. so now theri decision is to Not use cryo conductors in and space program,neclear reactor,wepons system,life support equipt. so why would any "sound equipt" benefit unless things are under spect to start with.
>>>Audiophiles don’t really care very much what the Government does, or NASA or the military or life support. We do whatever we like. We are the Clash! 🤗 Besides NASA employs cryogenics routinely for space missions, liquid nitrogen and BEYOND. Anyone interested in higher performance materials would use cryogenic treatment.
We ain’t gonna be treated like trash We got one thing We are the Clash What? We are the Clash It’s like a patch You can strike that match!
bo1972"Most cables in audio are what we call; emphasis cables. That means that those who created them put the focus on certain frequency response. "
That is quite a claim, assertion, and pronouncement please provide data on the FR measurements you have done on audio cables that confirm you're claim or are you saying this is just a belief that you have but haven't conducted the tests necessary to confirm it which is fine if that is the case.
Anyone with an LCR bridge can measure cable parameters, enter them in a calculator along with the electronics I/O / speaker parameters and calculate the values.
If manufacturers were more honest, they would include LCR values in their 'specs' instead of fuzzy headed audiophile nonsense.
ieales"Anyone with an LCR bridge can measure cable parameters, enter them in a calculator along with the electronics I/O / speaker parameters and calculate the values"
Yes this should not be too difficult for anyone with basic, fundamental, rudimentary technical skills and that is why it puzzles my that bo1972 hasn't shared such details to accompany his claim except it doesn't really surprise me because bo1972's understandings are much more limited than he is ever willing to admit, acknowledge or accept.
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