I’d say your speakers are definitely the weak link, but if going the tube route, you can do a lot better than Jolida. A lightly used Cayin or Line Magnetic amp can be had for about the same $$$.
Normally I would put most of a budget toward speakers. You won’t want to skimp on an analog front end, however, you might consider rebalancing the budget some to get into a $5k pair of speakers if you plan to buy new. Speakers are probably the most polarizing and personal aspect of a system, so you’ll want to do plenty of research, but hopefully you’ll take advantage of some money back guarantees from MD and the like. SF speakers are attractive but I’ve found that it’s often the eye candy speakers that have the most mediocre performance. It is possible to polish a turd after all. Don’t dismiss a speaker on specs either. Some of the best speakers I’ve heard roll off the highs above 15KHz.
And forget the ADS controller. VPI told me one would reap greater benefit from putting that money into a cartridge or phono stage.
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Before a speaker replacement..spend time & research into room acoustic treatments..the absolute best advice I can give...You've never heard what your system is capable of until you've exhausted this avenue!
Happy Listening!
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@slaw Do you use acoustic foam? @geoffkait was on another thread saying it ruined the sound. After years of happy listening in a concrete basement, and being berated for not having "room treatments", added some foam. https://ucarecdn.com/23cf8b12-ff4f-49bb-bccd-7d80127dc4ad/ I'm a little confused. |
+1 speakers are weakest link.
Not knowing your tastes it is hard to make suggestions. Go out and listen. With tubes you need to carefully match speakers as dips in impedance will modulate the response when coupled with a high output impedance tube. |
@noromance,
l absoloutely love your equipment!
Based upon my own experience, given your unfinished walls, etc...
I can only give vague assessments, you understand right?
Until you finish your basement, (this will always be the (elephant) in the room, so to speak)... you will never reach the potential your current system has for you. I’m currently in my (own phase) of trying to reach my full system’s potential.
It cost a lot. but in my experience, the rewards are worth it!
FWIW: I’m currently using a combination of these products:
(1) Ready Acoustic panel..Owens Corning, modified by me
(2) Furutech RW-1 wall diffusors
(3) (8) Vicoustic Extreme Bass Panels
(4) Stillpoints Apeture (1).. (right now!) (4) more in the mail.
I almost forgot.. Yes!!! get rid of the acoustic foam!. Don’t, I (rpt), don’t cheap out on acoustic treatments!
You asked...I answered..
I can only say "being berated"..well , It’s your ears, your system..right? If you have doubts when others say something..there MAY be something wrong?
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@noromance ,
Those foam panels, along with unfinished walls are sucking the life out of your system’s potential...Dude!
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If I may..?
Your equipment is just the initial step in what is ultimately to become the reward you thought you bought, when you get your room "right".
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@slaw Thanks man. Appreciate the info. I'll circle back. Apologies for the thread hijack!
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@noromance ,
Based upon my reading of your experience with countless (equipment),, I find it sad that you've never addressed your acoustic environment in a serious way. While, You have a handle on the sound qualities of your equipment, you have not reached their potiential in your space!
This is SAD! Get with it dude!
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You can do much better than Venere's for similar price. |
@shadorne thanks for confirming... I figured that’d be the case but it’s a good place for me to get started. I figured if anything, the tubes might even make the Klipsch sound even better haha |
@twoleftears second person that’s said that... I thought they were reviewed pretty highly. Any suggestions? |
@helomech regarding the ads... have you used it before or just referencing something you’ve heard? Was a little curious if I was going to see any gains with this unit or not, but thought I’d try it at least and see... if nothing else I can send it back |
@mattyjman,
Here is the reply I received straight from VPI:
"Hey helomech, yes there was a time we had essentially a "mini power supply" in the table. It won’t work with the Phoenix or SDS. The ADS was made while keeping in mind we had models out there with the mini PS board in there so it works but honestly... save the money, don’buy any of it and put the money in the cartridge (great cart for the money IMHO) and you will have a much greater jump in your sound improvement. Overall hope you’re enjoying the table."
He was referencing the Sound Smith cart I was considering at the time, a cart that didn’t turn out to be so great.
I should add that the Phoenix Engineering guy (maker of the Falcon PSU) said that these tables with the "mini power supply" (the tables compatible with the ADS) won’t benefit from any speed controller whatsoever, because the built-in power supply regenerates any input signal and negates any possible improvement. |
IMO both your speakers and amp are your weakest links. You are a tube guy so IMO I would stay away from Sonus Faber, these speakers tend to be a little dark and tubes won’t help lighten them up. If you like tubes, try out the rogue Cronus magnum II with kt-120 tubes. I used to own 1 and they are underrated.
if you go tubes, try some ushers/Wilson’s/others that are not so dark. |
@mattyjman There are so many makers and models out there that it’s hard to know where to begin. You need to get out there and listen to several different, to get a sense of what you like and don’t like. We all have our faves, which are likely not shared by most others posting in an individual thread. Mine: ProAc, PMC, Spendor, Vienna Acoustics, Silverline, Dynaudio. Others that are frequently extolled: Vandersteen, Revel, Devore, Focal, Harbeth, etc. etc.
P.S. the lower lines in the Sonus Faber range are very much engineered to a price point. Once you get up to the Olympicas, things start to get different/improve, but then I don't think they're price competitive. |
+1 twoleftears.
Great systems require synergy between components and one's ears. In the end, only you can make that assessment. The benefit of ordering from a place like MD is you get to try the components in your home for a reasonable amount of time. I would still try to narrow down choices before hand, in an attempt to avoid abusing that benefit. One method is to note what most like to pair with a specific brand. For example, Klipsch owners seem to have an almost universal preference for tube amps.
Manufacturer specific forums might be helpful in this regard. |
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@rbstehno how is the Jolida a weak player? I’ve heard great things about this amp. What do I get by purchasing a more expensive amp. |
I have owned 4 Jolida pieces and still own 1 today. I have also heard their top of the line pieces/separates at shows and they sounded good, but never was on a wow list. For the $$$ Jolida is good sounding, but for the same $$$, you could do better, like a Rogue Cronus Magnum II with kt-120 tubes. I bought the rogue after comparing against the Jolida separates. When you look at the 3402 fusion amp with kt-120 tubes, it is rated at 80 watts, whereas the rogue Cronus magnum II with the same tubes is rated at 110 watts. So I’m not bashing Jolida, I just wouldn’t own their products if I was considering moving up |
Do you have any equipment now? Or is this a shopping list?
I agree on the Cronus magnum suggestion, I have the 1 not the 2 and it's only bettered by my Primaluna Dialogue Premium integrated.
I had a Jolida 502, it was good but the Cronus blew it away in soundstage and tone, its (cronus) also more affected to tube rolling.
As far as the turntable goes, I just moved from a 30 year old VPI HW-19 mk3 to a Prime with the 3D arm, amazing upgrade.
You might want to rethink the tube phono, especially if you are going with tubes. Could be too much tubbiness.
My system in a 12X16X 10' room
VPI Prime Ortofon 2M Bronze
Lehmann black cube se2
Primaluna Dialogue Premium integrated
Focal 1008be2
Everything was used/open box (except for the turntable, it was supposed to be but they upgraded me to a new table).
I probably saved my self around 5k going used.
It took me a while to get here but I'm happy for now with the way my system sounds.
good luck.
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@mdelrossi1
the equipment is all on its way, sans the speakers. I looked at the primaluna, but simply didn’t have enough to spend. This is my first foray into tubes and from my perspective overspent on the phono stage and underspent on the amp so I could make sure money was going where it was going to make a difference. I think whether or not I stay with the Jolida, the Manley phono is a fine piece from what I’ve heard, and will likely stay.
As as for too much “tube-iness”, what exactly does that sound like? I have a regular ht amp for surround sound duties... I can plug that in and see what the difference is (and I intend to), but from what I’ve read tube at the front end and back end is ideal. Not that I would know... but I’m intrigued by the concept of second order harmonics and a warm lush sound. |
@mattyjman,
I haven’t heard the Manley, I positive it’s wonderful.
Too much tube-iness, would be a more euphonic sound at the cost of detail, and attack (like on a cymbal or guitar), but like I’ve said I haven’t heard the Manley. I chose the Lehman, after using a Cambridge Audio 640, and then a Yaqin 23b (which I liked,but haven’t put it back in the system,) after listening to several tracks that Michael Fremer posted on analog planet. Low noise and great detail, and soundstage.
Its a a journey to find a system that works for you and your room.
But well worth it.
Remember it’s all about synergy.
Best of luck
mdr |
Imo tubes provide a great warm sound, usually associated with the midrange. Sometimes the highs feel as though there is a veil drawn over the speakers. When I had the rogue, I loved the miss and highs, but the low end was too flabby for me, the rogue just didn’t control the lows to my liking.
if you notice, there is a trend to use a tube preamp with a big solid state amp, which should give you the best of both worlds. To me and that’s why I switched from tube back to solid state, you can find a good solid state amp that sounds like a good tube amp but controls the low end. |
There is no such thing as too much tubes in your system. Good tube gear does not sound slow and bloated, that is bad gear or speakers that are in incompatible match with the tube gear. If you have the proper speakers there is no need to compromise with a solid-state amp. A good tube amp will Soundstage better and do 3-D presence better.
Based on your list I would look at different speakers, kill the speed controller and potentially look at other amplifiers. Most importantly when you're looking at speakers get ones with high-efficiency that have a nominal impedance of at least eight homes and a flat impedance curve. If you get very appropriate speakers you can go with set or OTL both of which sounds better than regular pentode tube amps. |
I love sonus faber speakers but they would be far from my first choice for your musical preference. Since speakers are the most important element in a system i would go out and listen to a few. My first choice would be some revel's, I also like proAc speakers a lot, although contentious- I really like the b&w line, as well as the monitor silver. |
I have Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated, and just put the Manley Chinook in the mix. There is definite synergy with this setup. Something like the PL would be a better choice than your jolida.
I agree that your speakers are probably not up to the level of the rest of your system, and I don't think the Sonus Faber would be either. I recently got a pair of Revel F208s in your price range, gently used. This would be a good option for you to consider... one of many hundreds of options. :-) |
