@thyname "I am seriously thinking about getting one from Ali Express, and stripping it down to see what’s inside..."
Before you buy and strip apart the lower cost AE purchased version, listen [back and forth over 30 days] and compare the sound to the authentic USA purchased version. This is what really matters.
Then call Cardas and ask them to share with you a few stories of the fakes that get sent in [by curious and unknowing customers] for authenticity certification. Ask them where some of these other large well-known USA Mfgs source their copper from. They likely won’t share this, but you get the drift.
You can make really good pasta and really good cookies with a great recipe and amazing ingredients and they taste fantastic. Or use a generic recipe made with crap ingredients, well...I digress.
Best of luck on the mission to find real quality and value for great sound.
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@ullodea
Thanks for that detailed info. It's good to know the specific vendor you bought from because they all sell a slightly different product.
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For those who were interested in the Odin Gold RCA ICs, I bought mine from the "audioconnector" store here: https://a.aliexpress.com/_msRQjL6 and they sound exceptional. A smidgeon shy of my Transparent Musiclink Plus RCAs. I’ve also just received these T Labs RSC Vector-2 ICs
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msRQjL6 and they are also excellent, with more air and detail but slightly recessed mids and upper bass as compared to the Odin Golds. These two would be the best of the 8 or so types I’ve trialled so far. All perform, in my experience, at a level expected of branded products carrying a price at least 7x what one pays on AE. It’s been quite the revelation, with similar experiences with power and speaker cables. I don't accept that any sane first buyer would consider these genuine, but understand the risk in secondary markets. My experience with the vendors has also been really fortunate, totally fair and decent. At least the xenophobia keeps the secret for the rest of us ;)
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I have been observing the used market a lot recently, prompted by this thread. Focused on just one product : Audioquest Dragon power cords. Have been looking at the pictures of Ali Express closely, and what’s for sale here in US, used sites. I am afraid the majority of what’s available “used” is from Ali Express. I am 100% certain. Major giveaways other than actual pictures, 1) lack of cartoon outer cover (none of Ali stuff has that), 2) they are all previous generation, older braiding and writing on the plugs. 3) Color. Audioquest never made light gray nylon braid.
Be careful out there.
I am seriously thinking about getting one from Ali Express, and stripping it down to see what’s inside. They sell for less than $300. Worth the curiosity. Most of these sellers claim privately is the same source material coming from the same factory. They are all honest though, they never say it’s Audioquest. Just uncertified cable using the same materials from the same factory. “Replica” is the major key word. I guess using the logo and exact description wording is totally legal for those people. Wild Wild West 🤦♂️
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Another thing I’m curious about is the quality of the ubiquitous “carbon fiber plug” connectors (xlr/rca/5-15p) and whether or not they’re any good. They appear on a ton of cables on AliExpress, including several of the Nordost knockoffs. Heck, I have a pair of Underwood HiFi’s $400 gold series interconnects that use these connectors.
As an aside, I have a sneaking suspicion that these cables are sourced through the same channels as the much cheaper cables we’re seeing on AliExpress.For instance, the $349 Underwood gold series power cable looks pretty much identical to the ones sold on AliExpress as an Accuphase/shuko cable.
https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/linx
https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/valiant
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33016795882.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite
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@roxy54 ok curiosity got the best of me so I opened one up and can confirm it is silver plated copper not solid.
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@roxy54 that might be my error…I saw the silver wire and assumed it is plated at this price. A lot of these descriptions can be misleading. They mention silver purity etc and say 5NOCC but don’t mention plated copper. Oops! At this price I just cannot see it being all silver. Next time I open one up I will remove the wires anD give it a good look.
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@tksteingraber
Ok, so it isn't actually what they say it is, it is silver plated copper. I have no problem with copper, but they should state that. I will still try one in the near future.
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@roxy54 yes I have opened it up and confirmed it is silver plated wire. Very well constructed. I added a second 10ga copper ground wire to the ground terminal on the plug to connect it directly to a Russ Andrews RF Router MK II which does an excellent job of removing noise to improve clarity. It’s my effort to replicate RA’s EVO-S PowerKord floating grounding method. Time will tell how if it adds a benefit. Fun giving it a go with these low cost power cords.
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@tksteingraber
I was looking at that cable last year and wondering if it could really be fine silver for that price. I guess there's no way to know for sure without taking it apart, but it looks like and interesting design.
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Congratulations @juanmanuelfangioii ! Zavfino is certainly great value for the money. I do see you upgrading to Silver Dart in no time 😉
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So excited my new Zafino Cable Fusion XLR's just got dropped off. The Zafino loom is almost complete just waiting on the Majestic USB to arrive tomorrow.
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Yes, and in addition to different techniques, the end plugs were very different which must also account for a difference in sound.
Totally agree with the connectors.
But does welding produce a different sound than solder?
Or what other techniques are there that you are alluding to?
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Yes, and in addition to different techniques, the end plugs were very different which must also account for a difference in sound.
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Companies use different technics and philosophies when making up cables
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@roxy54 it's difficult to understand why they will sound different, copper, same length and thickness. The same question can be posed the opposite way, why do they should sound different?
I could dress differently and have a haircut, maybe wear some sunglasses to change my look drastically. I am not a different person, so looking different is not always different, the same person is here.
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@nyc_ben
Yes, why would they sound same?
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@nyc_ben
Why should they sound the same? They certainly don't look the same.
"I am not sure if I am crazy about placebo effects."
What does that mean? You don't like them, or you don't believe in them?
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So I just started listing with the new power cable. Click on the link below to see the product.
My old one is from Amazon.
My new one is from AliExpress.
I am not sure if I am crazy about placebo effects. Sound like the new cable is more forward. They should sound the same. This is very weird now that I have experienced this. It's very subtle, not sure if I can pick this out in a blind test.
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@nyc_ben
Sorry my post isn’t correct. You should not text and drive lol.
It should have read I think that is the cable i posted a pic of the internals.
Yes, yours is the same but I peeled the tape back. Different vendors same cable
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@nyc_ben
The fear Furutech is what I posted the internals of
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So coincidental, I just received a Viborg connector today, and would totally second that!
There was a poster asking about AT Audio Red Spider pure silver interconnect, I’ve tried it, have it, and it’s brilliantly good - Solid lows detailed highs, exactly that ’silver sound’ that I go for 100%..
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I am a fan of Viborg's stuff. They're not counterfeiting or taking anyone's IP, and it seems to be very fine. I have their silver interconnects, and like them and will buy more, and their power plugs are as good or better than anything else on the market.
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My AliExpress $0.02 on this, the addition of a non-Chinese brand name to Chinese cables is pure humour. With China, you get what you pay for, and there are some excellent cable options from AliE and China. Xangsane silver cabling, a fair degree of AT Audio’s stuff - it is just excellent.
This
Or this in a finished product
The branded stuff can be far lower quality, but with China, money talks, if it’s $20, you’ll be sent a $20 cable. Spend $200, you’ll be sent something pretty great that absolutely comes close to $1k+ NA or EU cables - as a general rule of course...
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@rolox
The ones I ordered were the non-gold version from “hifi-diy store”.
I just picked the one that seemed to have the most unit sales and positive reviews. Maybe I’ll think about trying a pair of the ones you provided a link to as well. I’m sure in the past I’ve spent more than $40 on countless things more frivolous and less interesting than comparing two cables out of sheer curiosity.
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I think it is important to mention that a lot of AliExpress vendors are now offering free hassle return in a 15 days window. Being able to return the disappointing cables for free, with a return sticker sent to me and everything, was fantastic.
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@rfnoise the Gold Odin RCA with the good sounding connectors is this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004390953007.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802dqG3tr
there are probably others, of course. But it’s impossible to tell from the pictures (the two vendors I tried for the Gold Odin use exactly the same pictures).
The connectors will feel cheap and flimsy, the rear part of the shell is plastic, but they SOUND good.
There is another vendor that usually sells good stuff, it's the AudioConnector Store. I haven't bought any Gold IC from him so I don't know which version he sells but I've bought quite a few other things and it was all good.
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@rolox
The second order uses EXACTLY the same wire but uses basic heavy brass RCA plugs that only look like Holoplugs from the outside shell. Those were extremely disppointing sound wise and I had to return them for a refund.
Hmm… now you’ve got me wondering which ones I ended up ordering… Do you happen to remember which vendor had the better connectors?
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In my opinion,any “name brand” selling on Alibaba is a counterfeit. That being said,I have purchased a “PS Audio AC12 power cord about three years ago for $79. It has been in use since it was delivered,and works good for a $79 cable. I will give it away before I sell it. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night having someone think they got an authentic PS cable for cheap.
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Has anyone had any experience comparing power cords ChinaOdin2 vs Original Valhalla1?
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One Nordost secret sauce is their quality connectors, as Rolox has pointed out above. But their main claim to unique tech is the single/dual micro mono-filament technology, and the mathematical lay/winding process.
So what are the fakes doing? They are using a loosely wound single mono-filament spiral around the conductor, not the dual mono filament the real Valhalla/Odin has. Also you can presume the fakes are just approximating the lay/winding of a real Nordost.
So the fakes give a taste of what the real cables could do. They are still better than anything I have tried in their price range. I would once again urge those testing it to purchase the obviously higher quality AliExpress variants that cost only a bit more.
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@spenav it’s also no surprise that the best sounding Odin counterfeits are those who are using the best copy of Nordost’s Holoplugs.
I recently ordered a few pairs of Odin Gold RCA ICs; from two different vendors and at very similar prices.
The first pair uses Holoplug RCAs that use the same general ideas (very low mass) and same connection scheme of the + and return wires as the genuine, and it sounds very very good. The second order uses EXACTLY the same wire but uses basic heavy brass RCA plugs that only look like Holoplugs from the outside shell. Those were extremely disppointing sound wise and I had to return them for a refund.
The devil is often in the details!
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@spenav looking at the Odin range of products, there are more similarities than differences in build geometry and general ideas between the counterfeit and the genuine - if you exclude the speaker cables whose counterfeit are spirals and not flat ribbons like the genuine. The fake Odin interconnects for example could be using basic multi strand wire in a sleeve that looks like the real thing from the outside, but no, you DO find the silver plated solid core wires in a spiral arrangement and even the tiny thread that separates each core from its teflon sleeve is there. And so is the screening sleeve. So of course the genuine will have much more attention to detail and better materials and everything but looking at the counterfeit I'm absolutely not surprised it sounds so good. The basics are there.
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Been following this thread for awhile… just ordered two pairs of what I’ve decided to call “Nordin Odost” XLR off AliExpress, not looking to be bowled over by performance, but simply because I have a pressing need for a couple pairs of balanced interconnects and they were priced similarly to the other more basic cables I was looking at on Amazon.
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@bigtwin Not really comparing the 2 just trying to show insides of 2 cables.
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They make a replica cable that looks identical to the real thing. Same outer casing right down to the lettering of the name. You appear to doing a bit of an apple to orange comparison? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's lots of crap product out there and even the best replicas may not be as good as the real thing. Just not sure if the difference between the real and the good fakes can warrant costing 10 - 20 times as much.
If it looks the same, and has the same component materials and layout, and sounds the same… ?
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@evank The "real" picture has been meticulously prepared by Furutech to showcase their product. I'm thinking if you took the same care and attention they did, you could make the "fake" cable look almost as good? You're also comparing two different product lines? They make a replica cable that looks identical to the real thing. Same outer casing right down to the lettering of the name. You appear to doing a bit of an apple to orange comparison? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's lots of crap product out there and even the best replicas may not be as good as the real thing. Just not sure if the difference between the real and the good fakes can warrant costing 10 - 20 times as much.
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I also did some more research and what I found is the color of the wires used in the fake ones are the colors that are used in Europe versus our red green and white
That could colour the sound 😃
Red, green and white sounds Italian or Mexican. I would have expected red, white and blue. 😃
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Psst want a deal on a watch. How about some Ray Bahn sun glasses.
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I also did some more research and what I found is the color of the wires used in the fake ones are the colors that are used in Europe versus our red green and white
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Here is a conversation I just had with a vendor on AliExpress.
Are these cables made with genuine Furutech cable & connectors, or are they simply a high quality immitation?
Read
10:47
你好，是我们自己生产的线，是高质量的仿制品。请问您能接受吗？
Hello, it is our own production line, it is a high-quality imitation. Can you accept it?
Alibaba Translation
17:27
Yes, as long as the quality is very good. Thanks
Read
好的，质量是很好的，感谢您的支持。
OK, the quality is very good, thank you for your support.
Alibaba Translation
I post again in a month, after I have recieved them and tried them out.
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 picture The top picture is a fake Furutech and the bottom is real
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Cardas $10,000 cables or $200 from North America, not China. 😉
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So I'll go out on a limb here and state what should be obvious to all. There are too many comments along this line "You are absolutely right. They are not replicas. I opened a Neardost gold power cable and confirmed that. On the other hand, these power cables have no right to sound the way they do. That part I cannot explain. I know it’s not confirmation or expectation bias, I am always honest with myself. Just cannot unhear what I am hearing. What’s the secret sauce?" When we all know these are not the original cables being sold for pennies on the dollar, is it not apparent that you don't need to have fancy treated copper, gold plated connectors and a litany of other materials to get great sound? Cardas $10,000 cables or $200 from China. A difference you can hear worth $9800? The story of the Emperor with no clothes comes to mind. And before anyone starts jumping on the cables make a difference bandwagon, go back and re read the entire thread. IMHO.
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@thyname
You always can check them on cheap equipment first.
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yeah, check with continuity tester. Moreover, its always good to check the AC voltage connecting the hot + neutral, hot + earth, neutral + earth to make sure the polarity is correct and the reading are as expected. I do that for well know brand anyways just to be on the safer side. I also do DIY power cords, so I am far from getting scared. I don’t own any Ali’s power cord but they aren’t that dumb to not make the basics right. The construction as I see from the images at Ali are solid and robust, sometimes far better than some US brands. Manufacturing defect is another issue but that can happen with well known brands as well.
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