Constant noisy tubes maybe go solid state?

Lots of good info here.

Keep trying different tubes, might need to spend some money for better tubes,.??

Have you contacted quicksilver?.



    Agree with  1.21 gigiwatts.   
  Power amp on first off last is what I’ve always done. 

I don't understand how Mullard and RCA can sound like Solid state. These present warmth.
 It must have to do with the design of the circuit. What type of Mullard is it?

Upscale Audio...for the best tubes!

I can't believe no one has chided you yet for turning on all all your gear while the power amp is still on! I have the Khartago running with a tube preamp and yes I keep it on 24/7 like Klaus recommends  however you definitely should switch it off to boot up the rest of your system and then switch it on again quick. Don't turn it on until at least 15-20 seconds after turning on preamp. 
From what I've read and been told you absolutely do not want that horrible distortion pop running through your system upon boot up. I dont think its causing your issues but its certainly horrible for your system. 
The rule is always amp on last , amp off first. 

@bluorion I think I lucked out off the bat with zero noise tubes running in my crazy high gain system. Clearly an aberration.

im debating throwing down on AVA’s Vision SLR (solid state) preamp and seeing what the difference is. 
Upscale sent a follow up email and said my system as it sat (no attenuators) would have some noise.  That I didn’t have any off the bat was luck. Which is the conclusion I had already come to. I still may go with a 6db pair and see how much noise comes though. The 13db pair in now makes the system dead quiet.

im curious to know, just for my knowledge, if an 18db gain preamp with a 12db attenuators makes it a 6db gain preamp or if it’s non linear or there’s other electrical things at play.

I haven't had good experiences with tubes---I guess I'm the oddball. I had the same thing---hiss, noise, dinging sounds. I went back to SS and I'm staying. I prefer a completely black background.

I just ordered some Tubes from Viva directly from Ebay, I did request the tubes to be tested for noise, they did not respond and shipped it out after 2 weeks its arrived at a warehouse i use for shipping to Asia. Lets see what the outcomes out as I have an Atma-Sphere Pre-amps both MP3 and MP1 and they are sensitive to crap tubes.

@rodman99999 I got the Aperex from him originally and they were really good. Still quiet though getting microphonic now. I like their sound but wish they had the Mullard’s top end. For whatever reason the Amperex seem to have like an extra 1/2 octave of lower bass than any of the tubes I have heard (which isn’t many).
I will look  into the 6211

Brent Jessee currently has some Amperex 6211 tubes (Holland/10K hrs), intended/noise tested for IBM, that won’t break the bank.      Might be worth your time, to discuss those with him, since you liked the Amperex sound.       Info on that premium, industrial iteration of the 12AT7 and what’s in stock, in Teles and Amperex (as well as some less expensive, Mullard, RCA, GE and Sylvania 6211s), here:   http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm

So for the first time in months I had several hours to spin this weekend. Relaxing is so rare.
Anyway, I was in evaluation mode for a lot of the time and it seems to me that with either the RCA’s or the expensive Mullards the sound is very solid state sounding. I guess. I have a little Class A preamp I got on eBay and I will hook that up and compare them. I guess I feel like its better to have solid state that sounds solid state vs tubes that sound solid state. That said, I was listening to see what I would want to change overall and really, for all my bitching, my system sounds better than it should I think.
So question: I slightly prefer these https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/mullard-6201-vintage-british-new-old-stoc...over the RCA’s from Brent Jessee. A little more relaxed but still forward, but I absolutely love the bass I get from a pair of Amperex 7062, its like bottomless.
So is there a tube with the overall sound of the 6201 but with the low end of the 7062? I essentially want a touch more overall body and "tonal saturation"and some of that bass magic from the Amperex (or maybe the mullard highs for the 7062 which is a touch rolled off).

+ 3 for Vintage Tube Services.  Andy is my go to guy for all my NOS tubes.  Never had a problem and knows what he is doing and won't rip you off like others.  

Welp, spoke too soon? My Yamaha seems to be lost in the post and meanwhile I received some RCA clear tops that I had already ordered from a seller on eBay. Just popped them in- DEAD silent. No microphonics. Super separation. Clear, velvety and delicious sound. Wow. 

@gochurchgo ive got a Yamaha A-S2100 on the way in the post. In the meantime, I just went back to my Rega Brio-R - other than the French Mazdas (which were super 3D) the tubes don’t add much other than hiss and whine! Bye bye tubes. 

Krell K300i...Class A sound, 150w/ch @8ohms....under rated power and so much like a high powered tube amp...without the haze or glare.

@leemaze The Mullards from Upscale were quiet after I put the attenuators on. I have so much gain in my system that I really don't know what anything means anymore other than the first set of RCA's I got early last year must have been perfect because they were 100% noise free without any attenuation.
So for now I'm just going to try to acquire the next piece which is a phono stage and although I'd like to go tube, I'm admittedly hesitant.
What is you set up?

@gochurchgo I'm giving up and going back to solid state - 4th round of tubes are microphonic.  These ones aren't noisy or hissy but they project *everything* through the speakers - like tapping on the floor and lightly rubbing the top of the amp.  Tube seller tried to tell me "this is normal, all tubes are microphonic".  Am i crazy?

@jackd  yeah the original speakers I was looking at were 90db I think. That went out the window when I heard the Klipsch Heresy. It’s a terrible mismatch (lol). 

A guideline to what Klaus thinks is an acceptable gain tube preamp would be the Candela at 14db so with speakers of "normal" sensitivity the QS would be fine.  But unfortunately you bought speakers than don't fit in that definition so you are going to have to mitigate the situation for now unless you want to start selling and buying.  If for now the attenuators allow you to listen to your system with no appreciable loss of fidelity then resolve your tube vendor issues get a good pair of AT7's and let it be.  You can get a good and quiet pair of NOS AU7 tubes for not a lot of money but it won't be from the usual suspects like Kevin, Brent or Andy as I've done it recently.  Contact me by PM if you want to know where.

@jackd  I’m so overloaded right now that I’m just leaving it so I can have a few minutes of peace and gear music. But to your point part of me agrees and part of me is disappointed that I’m selling this piece of gear short by using them. 
I’m not sure what I’m going to do. Early next year I’m hoping to replace my trusty Lounge phono with something better but that brings me to tunes again. Or maybe dump the QS and go solid state and save the new phono for 2022. 
Just trying to survive the world right now

@gochurchgo 

If the 10db attenuators work and don't effect the sound to your ears I wouldn't waste anymore money on attenuators.  If you haven't tried the 12AU7 tubes yet that might be a better avenue.  Also my personal opinion but if you want to continue to deal in NOS tubes without getting duds I would stick with Andy at Vintage Tube Services. There are still a couple of reliable dealers on Ebay that fully test and back their tubes but they are few and far between. 

Get some ECC83 JJ gold pins. Very reliable -- not expensive.  Mullard NOS are not bad, RCA clear tops. Tesla 803c in place of 12AX7 are nice, but hit or miss as to what you can find.

Try here:
https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-articles/12ax7-comparison-current-made-tubes

Went and threw on the 12db attenuators I had and now everything is dead silent. All the tube noise I have been getting (which didn’t get louder with the volume pot) now gone below the threshold of the attenuators. I’m pondering snagging a 6db pair just to see what that does.

So by this, if I theoretically could lower the gain of the QS to say <8 FB gain then I should have no issues. Right? Or is it non linear and I’m over simplifying?

To the OP: The Best tube vendor is Andy Bowman at Vintage Tube Services. He’s been at this for 30years! He’s as honest as the day is long. 

Oh boy - what a bummer!  Did the replacement RCA from Brent sound good?  Let us know if Upscale takes those back?

@leemazei got Mullards and they are, after 60 or so hours now making noise. I’m going to try to return them to upscale and switch back to the RCA’s.
Unless this is somehow electrical
noise then this preamp is a tube destroyer, although I went a year with the same set and had no issues. Go figure.
Pretty fed up. All I want to do is play music, not spend and-into fortunes shipping tubes.

@gochurchgo interested to hear how the new Gold Lions compare to RCA black plates in terms of noise floor and soundstage! Have you listened yet? Also what “level” did you buy from Upscale?

Hard to get through 145 responses....

life is hard, then you die...  

Yeah, like solid state

yes, tubes are noisier than solid state, quite often the case

but the tube gear noise level can be managed so that it does not interfere with listening pleasure

as with many good things in life, you have to work at it a little to reap the rewards

if one is unwilling or not equipped to pursue, then there are alternatives, also able to deliver listening pleasure

Hey @aj523 - sounds like you have a case of upgradeitis. Summer of 2020 is only 2 1/2 months ago! And I saw you changed cartridges. I guess that makes sense that you reevaluated your phono stage. 

Tubes are noisier.

Soon you'll be looking for a new table (if you didn't change already).

Short story, using quality well tested tubes matters. Good matching of voltage/impedance between the preamp and amp(s) matters.  

"Hard to get through 145 responses....".        Yep!        Actually reading prior posts is something that should be done at the outset, of a thread’s inception.    It’s somewhat late, at this point/for this thread.       Happy holidays!

@sokogear
The 20/20 LPS is so summer 2020 lol. I had since moved on to the new Sutherland Duo LPS ver.
But recently I was given the opportunity to demo from the same retailer a brand new Zesto Andros Deluxe2 and go head to head with the DUI for up to 30 days. That’s what I’m doing now and both have their strengths and weaknesses but quite frankly the Zesto piece is quite a bit more dynamic (and quite a bit more money) with amazing separation of instruments, so the sonics are stunning but at the expense of it being a little noisier. The Duo is dead dead quiet.

hey @aj523 - I thought you had fairly recently gotten a Sutherland 20/20 - did you already get rid of it? You said you have all tubes.

Hard to get through 145 responses....

Threads would be much shorter, were more contributors disposed to actually read what’s been previously discussed.      Seems ubiquitous, on most social media platforms.

@donvito I researched the hell out of it. You should read a thread before commenting in it. Go ahead and search. Let me know what you come up with: TLDR zero.

never said anything was wrong with it and in the original post I noted that I realized about the gain. 

I have used 12AU7 tubes in that Quicksilver to lower the gain! You should do a little research on your gear before making a purchase. There is nothing wrong with that QS preamp. You mismatched the amp and preamp!

CONTACT Quicksilver,  go to: http://quicksilveraudio.com/contact/

Just chatted with Mike Sanders at QS again over email a few times.  He wanted to re-share he "responds to all emails" and suggested people may not be using the correct email address if they are not seeing a response.  

Note:  I checked and see his current gmail address via the "contact" page on his website is NOT the same as the old one some of us may have had last yer.   See contact on his site for the correct one to use.  

@gochurchgo

decooney 2 emails and 2 voicemail.
It’s fine. Things are running and I’ll be moving on the QS next year anyway.

Hmm. I did notice QS changed their contact page some. No more fill-in page. Shows email address only. He did respond back quickly though.

----------
re: old tubes - I do know people try different quality grade tubes in his preamps and the stock JJs he provides work well 99% of the time, functionally. Sure, others sound better and yet some old tubes from eBay and others with no reputable curve tracer or proven reputation and good results are a crapshoot. Can’t fake it on old tubes, as we all know too well. Best to buy from reputable tube resellers with real guarantees.

A friend had issues with his QS preamp as soon as he started "saving money", "getting a better deal" buying sh*t tubes off eBay. He's got good tubes now, all quiet again on the western front with his QS preamplifier. 

Selling it? If you decide to put that QS preamp up for sale, be sure to post it on Agon, someone here will grab it and make good use of it! Best of luck.

The problem with your Rogue is most likely not the tubes but just a higher noise floor with the component. Could be an issue with gain and also probably just the price you pay for a less expensive component. You can only do so much for a given retail price and certain short cuts are often taken by manufacturers in order to reach a target price. 

Not to hi-jack the thread but it seems on topic - anyone have clues about the hiss on my Rogue Sphinx?

@gochurchgo the whine is less and less frequent so I want to believe it’s part of Brent Jessee’s burn-in theory. 

The hiss is a different story, steady and present all the time. I can’t listen to quiet, ambient music because it’s covered in white noise. If I turn up the amp the music covers it, but it’s very noticeable at low volumes. It’s not affected by the volume level - the hiss doesn’t increase if I turn up the volume with nothing playing. Is this the tubes or something else you think?

@decooney  2 emails and 2 voicemail. 
It’s fine. Things are running and I’ll be moving on the QS next year anyway. 

decooney raises an important point

with covid, many manufacturers are not manning the land lines into their offices as most if not all staff work remotely

for example, one person in another thread complains that audio research doesn't answer the phone - but i email greg c (arc service manager) and he answers me in 2 hours

@slaw
"Why not talk to Mike Sanders?"

@gochurchgo
... "Emails and voicemails unreturned. Sh*t service".

Really, no response ???

Mike at Quicksilver just emailed me back in 10hrs, on a Saturday weekend day mind you. Fast response. Use email.  

He’s fine, open for business and customer service. I shared some of you could not reach him. He wanted to know what the issue is and what its about. He said to call or email him. Try again. FYI: his contact page is UPDATED with the direct (gmail) email address listed, go to: http://quicksilveraudio.com/contact/

@slaw  mentioned up thread. Emails and voicemails unreturned. Sh*t service.

Why not talk to Mike Sanders?

@leemaze I had that issue too when the RCA's were on their last legs. Intermittent super high pitch whine. Seems to come on more often the longer they were burning in a single session. Might be tubes going bad.

I sent back my crazy noisy RCA blackplates to Brent Jesse and spent 4x the money for Mazda 12AU7s pre-tested for noise and microphonics. These are better - actually listenable - but there’s a weird high pitched whine every so often and I can still clearly hear hiss from the listening position in quiet passages of music. I like the 3D effect but find myself straining to hear the music at my normal listening volumes (~60dB). This is after 72hrs of burn-in. 
Amp is Rogue Sphinx v2. Speakers are Wharfedale diamond 10.7. 
Am I missing something? Is this as quiet as it gets?

Thanks!

@sokogear
Thx dude! My entire system - phonostage, preamp, amp, are tubes and I have an Audioquest Niagara 5000. I think you’re right though, my home theater is solid state and dead quiet. Idk worth the compromise for me and it’s not audible until the volume is at least half way turned up with my ear pressed against the speaker. At a couple of feet away no level is audible but of course I’m 53. Lol.