Considering the New Tekton Design Encores? AND Owners Group - Experiences/Questions

Right now, from my BAT preamp, which has 4 outputs, 2 per channel:

* XLR out go to the purifi/Buckeye amps

* component/RCA out goes to the HSU subs, and enabled their onboard x-over to allow only below 30-35 hz to the sub.

I like my system now, a Dirac or some form of digital EQ (regardless of using Roon) was in my roadmap... but I just got the Bacch4MAC spacial tool, and turns out (spoke to the Professor/founder at Capital AudioFest) that he/it can handle the EQ in the digital domain, so I'm going to see how it does and disable the 3 EQ cuts in Roon.

Thanks for all the crossover info on the array. My mistake on missing the extra tweeters as I had encore monitors on my mind, so no loss of tweeters moving to the half Ulfbehrts from DI monitors.

Dirac live has mixed phase filters that really helped lock in imaging and time alignment in my earlier system. Not saying REW can't get you there. My brother had good results with REW on his Parasound JC5/ Martin Logan set up. GIK corner traps and bass traps did knock several dBs off the peak to valley differentials in my room but not a total fix. 

If you've already done the initial sub set up, which includes getting the phase constructive with the mains at the crossover point, then I don't have much else to add.

A digital crossover from MiniDSP would be more precise about matching the Xover frequency as identical on the mains as the sub, and you could try out different rates of high and low pass roll offs. Dirac live could quickly solve a best matched filter for many different Xover configs, treating the combo left sub and left speaker as 1 main speaker. Could better integration be found there? Possibly, but my guess, like yours is that there will always be some tone differential as they are in different boxes using different woofers.

Maybe open baffle speakers and subs don't have as much integration trouble. One thing is true, going with the lower reaching mains and Xover will quickly get you better bass given sufficiently powered mains.

oh, about: "Did you notice any loss of planar type sound with fewer tweeters on the half Ulfbehrts?"

Can't say, I've never heard the full Ulfbehtrs (or Moab or Encore) or anything with the 7+1+7 setup.  The monitors have the 6+1 ring, and I love that setup.  As I stated above, I had ML's and full size Maggies in this very same room, with these subs even, and the Tekton midrange is just awesomely fast and transparent, but more dynamics.

BTW not sure if this voluminous thread has linked to the AVS forum post of someone figuring the tweeter ring crossover, but it's very interesting.... 

We all 'know' only the center tweeter is a true tweeter and the 
"6 round the ring" go lower (much lower, to cover the 440hz (?) string of a violin per one of Eric's youtube videos), but the AVS deconstruction noted that the left and right 2 of the 7 go lowest and the top/bottom ones (above and below the center one) go a bit higher in freq - so the high-midrange appears to be a line array by the middle 3 vertical tweeters. and below that in freq, all 7 join in (ie: the 2 left flanking and 2 right flanking also participate).  a super elegant way to get around the comb filtering assumed by "yOu h4vE sEVen tWeEters??!!??" people.

@jayctoy Thank you. My Impact Monitors were flat black (including the Center channel I kept) but the gloss gray on these towers is nicer.

@brotw 

1) room correction.  Yes, I ran REW pre and post the room treatments you see pictured.  My room is about 13' 4" wide and 6'11" tall and 24-28' deep (non flat back wall) which produces these room nodes (below is without EQ but with room treatments):

 

So in Roon, I run 3 very narrow_Q EQ bands at -6 to -8db cutting at those peak freq's.  The nice thing about Roon EQ/filters is with the swipe of a soft-switch you can A/B your music in real time.   The biggest differences are in the 45 and 95hz cuts, the decay went from 900ms to < 200 with the EQ and the GIK corner traps (I don't have those waterfall graphs on this PC)

So the 'overhang' and 'ring' got much much better with targetted EQ, but the "gap" (not in volume, but maybe in tone/phase? not sure) between the monitor's 6.5" drivers and the 15" HSUs I couldn't reconcile.

Eric said his subs sound fantastic with the impact monitors - and I believe him - but I already have two subs, which aren't terrible (the HSU ULS-15) so I didn't want more subs. And if you are in the market for multiple subs (for their benefits) 2 of these: https://tektondesign.com/product/subwoofers/2-10-sub/#color cost the same as a single basic sub at most places)

Time allowing this week, I'll re-run REW with these Half Ulfberhts and see how they compare vs. the monitor+sub tested before.

@h4k4lugi 

Thank you for sharing your setup and experiences. The half Ulfberhts are a clever solution.

Fast acoustic bass is definitely a priority. I wonder if room correction would do you any favors blending the subs with monitors. Room correction had a huge positive impact on my sound even after noticeable improvements from room treatments.

Did you notice any loss of planar type sound with fewer tweeters on the half Ulfbehrts?

My guess is the full size encores would be hard to beat. Once again, I'll likely forego the 300B SET for either 805 SET Chifi or tube pre/SS class A. When the will to spend more arrives, then add subs and digital xovers.

GR Research's open baffle subs for faster bass and less room mode challenges might fit the bill. Eric at Tekton is moving that direction as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see an open baffle version of the 1812. No more box sound, fast bass and low mass transducers! A Tekton version of Spatial Audio speakers.

Your half Ulf looks good I bet they sound good.Erik know what he is doing.

@brotw

I bought the Impact monitors (3 of them for L/C/R) and loved them... best midrange I’ve ever heard in my house (In this house I’ve had MartinLogan, Maggie 2.6, B&W’s) I placed the L+R on top of my 15" HSU sealed subs... as shown here:

and for 90-95% of music, the combo shined...

but try as I might, I simply couldn’t get the gap between the mains (running full range with my BAT tube preamp, or HighPass crossed over with my Bryston) to blend "perfectly"** with the subs.

** perfectly = not distracting on specific tracks, like "You Look Good to Me" by the Oscar Peterson Trio - the acoustic/upright bass, with bow or plucked, just didn’t sound "as good as it could be" and my visit to Capital Audio fest proved it to me - I asked for that song on any system taking requests. Granted, for $2200 the Impact Monitors are awesome. And if you already have subs a total no brainer, espcially if you listen to only Rock, EDM, etc. But if acoustic bass is on the menu.... you may end up doing what I did or just go straight to "step 2"

I called up Eric Alexander at Tekton and told him what I wrote above and that I wanted to upgrade to a floor stander, but my 7’ height meant many of the full towers were out for me...

Well, turns out he had a pet project (which he may offer as a retail model) called a "Half Ulfberht" kinda half of one of these, but instead of an MTM tweeter array it’s a 7 ring like the monitors I loved. Sold. my basement listening room now looks like this:

 

 

And I am not bothering with bi-amping, the Buckeye Amps (Purifi based) class-D monoblocks I run are so good on their own, especially when fed by the tube powered Balanced Audio Technology pre-amp (I love my Bryston, but the BAT is even sweeter) but these came with 4 binding posts for bi-wiring, you can ask for bi-amping at time of checkout. Better yet, email them and ask for a callback from Eric, explain your needs - he’s been super responsive with many of us.

PS: I just looked up the Encore monitors... $3990... my Half Ulfberht’s were < $1000 more that those monitors. What you give up with this "half size" configuration vs. the "real/full Ulfberht" I linked to above: (1) sensitivity goes down by 3 (still 95-96dB @ 1w) and resistance goes from 4 to 8ohms, (2) power handling goes from 1kw to 500w.

PPS: and my subs?  yeah, still connected, but instead of @ 80hz, they take over only < 30hz and only seem to help on EDM/movies at this point. The bass from the Ulfberhts is quite good on their own. 

I'm looking for some guidance as I'm looking to get back into the hobby after taking a 3 year break. Encores are on my radar now since I really enjoyed the Tekton's DI speakers paired with a Line Magnetic LM508ia.

Knowing multiple subs (DBA) help smooth out room mode issues, and that Tekton offers an Encore monitor, does a monitor/multiple sub system stand a chance of competing with the full range Encore? On a related topic, would a full range Encore in a horizontal bi-amped configuration make sense (tubes on top, SS on bottom using miniDSP SHD digital crossover/Dirac Live)? As MC points out, is the more simple approach, a Raven Osprey with high passed mains in sub out mode that offloads the LF burden, the better KISS strategy? GR research has a high passed RCA connector, so most any lower watt tube amps could be relieved of reproducing the lowest frequencies is my guess. Dirac Live would probably help integrate with subs.

Tektons respond well to Parasound power for R&R, but I don't want to give up the tube driven midrange sound that comes with less power. Bi-amping or monitor encore/subs configs seem like an obvious path to explore. 

Brody

 

Trying to digest all these posts is difficult at best. So much information.Thanks though.

My issue is trying to decide on which to Order??? As a Rock and Roll person only. Pink Floyd, Rush, YES, AC/DC etc. MOAB with BE upgrade or Encore. Eric has stated that he would recommend MOAB with BE. Very Large Room, Wont go all into my system (digital Red book CD's and Qobuz) power,  Pass x250.8 most likely using class A power even at 90 db. Eric stated that the Encores are tilted towards classical, orchestral, etc where the MOAB's are more R&R oriented. He mentioned that he is working on a R&R Encore setup with different Woofers, that he would add. I will explore that conversation with him on Monday, tomorrow.   If anyone can help me with this decision, or at least make me smarter, more informed, please let me know. Very much appreciated. Robert TN

To all Encore owners... What speaker cables are you using and are you using Tube or solid state power sources.

I have a pair of Encores and the last thing I need to complete my system is to see whether I stick with my 10 gauge OFC copper wire or venture on. I understand Eric recommends Mogami and a few others swear by Silversmith Fidelium.

I switch up powers sources between a Coda CSIB integrated and what I am currently using a Line Magnetic 845 Premium tube amp.

protoss71 - well, then, raise your listening position!  ;~)

doug s.

@sedond I mistakenly stated that my listening position is higher than the tweeter, it is lower in fact. Silly me. Maybe the Rick Simpson Oil is clouding the clarity of my verbosity. Lol. 

protoss71 -

you mean you wish the tweeter was higher? that’s an easy fix - raise the speakers.

or, if you really *do* mean you wish the tweeter was lower, then get a listening seat that is lower.

doug s.

I do have a niggle on the encores, however. I wish the tweeter was lower.  My listening position is higher than the tweeter, causing decreased HF. If the Encore was set up like the Moab/Ulfberht, each woofer at opposite ends of the speaker, it would be an improvement, but perhaps Eric has a good reason why, maybe speaker not quite tall enough. 

@jsoku.  Congrats on your new encores! I have been digging mine.  They took forever to break in. 
As Millercarbon stated "My suggestion would be to ditch separates, and all the extra multi-channel stuff". I couldn't agree more.  Just a kick ass 2 channel is all you need to knock your socks off. Every mid-fi home surround sound system has been mediocre at best, unnatural at worst with the side sounds distracting from the content. I just run a Toslink from my TV to my DAC (Pro-Ject DAC box RS) with excellent results with blu-ray DVD's. On a side note, is it just me or does Netflix and Amazon prime streaming have horribly compressed audio? 

Thanks.  I am just using the AVR as a DAC for my HDMI sources because most standalone DACs do not accept an HDMI source, and I don't use the multichannel or theater modes--just straight decoding in pure mode.  For music I use a Chord Dave DAC.
While the Osprey looks great, I don't need an integrated amp as I am already using an Pass Labs XA 25 as a power amp.  I just need a pre-amplifier to switch between the the Chord Dave and Yamaha AVR.
I did install an old Oppo HA-1 that I have as a premplifier and the pc audio sound significantly better using the HA-1 as the preamp instead of the AVR.  It will do until I find a better preamp.

the Yamaha AVR, even in pure direct mode, appears to be adding some noise to the sound

What I been sayin’. The only way of doing HT at Encore level is to run stereo, plugging HDMI video directly into your monitor.

Those are some fine speakers. I know, because my Moab are awesome and Encore have to be at least that good. So even more awesome.

My suggestion would be to ditch separates, and all the extra multi-channel stuff, in favor of a Raven Osprey. Then not only your son but your wife too will be joining you and you can all sit there slack-jawed in awe of how good those Encores sound with some quality tube watts running through them.    https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/osprey-mk3/

After waiting about 10 months, My Encores arrived earlier this month and I've been listening to them for the past two weeks.  I had followed jcarpopo's excellent recommendation using a Pass Labs XA25 as a power amp (I was afraid of quickly getting the upgrade bug if I started with a cheaper power amp), and am using a Chord Dave as a DAC for PC audio (music), and a Yamaha AVR 3070 as a preamp in Pure Direct mode (mode that shuts off video circuitry for less noise) for input switching, volume control, and as a DAC for my home theater sources that use HDMI (unfortunately, no HDMI input for the Chord Dave).
For music, even with my high frequency hearing loss, the Encores sound spectacular--lush and with a full and integrated sound.  Midrange is wonderful (particularly with female vocals--KD Lang, Sade, Shelby Lynne--all sound lush and live). Base is tremendous--almost too much base for music--before receiving the Encores I was considering adding one of the Tekton subwoofers to this setup, but after hearing the Encores, I don't think a subwoofer is needed at all, at least for music.  Highs don't particularly stand out as good or bad, though that is almost certain due to my high frequency hearing loss.  The Encores are massive--my wife is convinced and accepts this purchase as a mid-life crisis, but my teenage son who usually is content to listen to music on his small bluetooth streaming speaker or worse, his speakerphone, now enjoys regular listening sessions with me with all kinds of music (his tastes in music differ from mine, but almost everything sounds great in this set-up)--discovering new music in our listening sessions--even if it is sometimes music following my son's eclectic music tastes :( -- is a wonderful new father son activity that brings us closer together.
  No complaints with home theater usage of the Encores either.  Soundtracks for movies and TV shows sound much more live and impactful than the SEAS Pendragons I had been using previously for my music setup and are now in my home theater.
As the Chord Dave has a digital volume control and can serve as a digital preamp (but not for HDMI sources), I tried bypassing the Yamaha and hooked up the Chord Dave directly to the XA25 power amp for music listening.  The resulting sound is somewhat leaner and cleaner, so the Yamaha AVR, even in pure direct mode, appears to be adding some noise to the sound which my brain is interpreting as fullness.  I don't mind this added noise/fullness for most types of music (and for acoustic music the additional fullness is actually more pleasing to my ears), but for louder and more congested music (e.g., hard rock, metal, electronica) the added noise/fullness is a bit of a detriment.  Regularly switching the wiring between source direct and using the Yamaha as a preamp is too much of a pain to do, so after the Encores' sound has settled, I will probably investigate getting an actual preamplifier instead of the AVR which can accept the SEL or balanced outputs from my Chord Dave and the output from my Yamaha AVR for HDMI sources.  I had been thinking of the Schiit Freya+ as a reasonably priced preamp which can alternate between tube mode and solid state model, but additional suggestions for a preamp (particularly any suggestions known to play well with the Chord Dave and/or XA25) would be  welcome. 
  

@vsedakov,
Never used the resistor pots. Don’t know how to use them anyway. No information from manufacturer on how to use them received. I do not have any need to change the mid to high frequency. Low frequency, however, is different. I have a small room and am having some low frequency difficulty. Not as tight as my Thiel 2.3’s, but then again not much is as tight. I have plugged one of the ports with fair results. I am thinking I should have gotten the Be tweeters, but then again, one of the reasons I got away from Thiel as too aggressive treble, likely from aluminum drivers. Encores are not even close to being aggressive. Silk tweeters likely why.  Anyone remove the mid bass driver foam plugs and assess for changes in sound? 

I previously had Martin Logan Montis Electrostats in my system and I wanted more dynamics. I was worried I might have to sacrifice a little speed and resolution but I now realize that was completely unfounded. I feel the Encores are just as fast and even more resolving, particularly in the midrange and treble. They throw a wider and significantly deeper soundstage in my room.

Not surprised. Knew before ordering my Moabs that they are as fast as a stat. Knew it because you are not the first ML owner to say it. 

I think the very high resolution of these speakers exposes the upstream components and recording quality of the music being played to a great extent

.
This is one of the best things about them. There's a common question along the lines of what do you like to play to show them off? Well, when everything sounds so good how are you to decide? I mean, resolving upstream changes, I put rubber bands under power cords and heard it. How much more resolving can you get? ???!

I feel in the midrange and treble region, they can play with the uber speakers.

I feel that in the midrange and treble region some of the uber speakers can play with the Tektons. Some of them. If instead of just the one you order all Be tweeters, then probably you are untouchable. 

Not a simple question. Has anyone used Resistor Pots on the back of the speakers? There are four Resistor Pots...

jcarcopo, thanks for starting this thread.   It is largely because of this thread and hearing the Moabs at the RMAF 2019 that I decided to buy the Encores with the Be tweeter upgrade.  I have been burning them in with pink noise for about 200 hours so far and what I am hearing has made me a VERY happy customer.  I have the Encores hooked up to a Luxman 590 AXII Integrated and I couldn't be more pleased with this combination.  It runs in Class A up to about 60 watts in 4 ohms so the high sensitivity of the speakers makes rocking out in my 14' x 20' no problem whatsoever. I previously had Martin Logan Montis Electrostats in my system and I wanted more dynamics.  I was worried I might have to sacrifice a little speed and resolution but I now realize that was completely unfounded.  I feel the Encores are just as fast and even more resolving, particularly in the midrange and treble.  They throw a wider and significantly deeper soundstage in my room.   I'm glad I opted for the Be tweeter as my system was on the warmish side with the Montis.  I previously used 2 subs with the Montis but now they are not needed.  I saw that an Encore owner put some felt around the tweeters and the array drivers and I opted to do the same.  I think it improved the instrument separation and is a nice little tweek.  I think the very high resolution of these speakers exposes the upstream components and recording quality of the music being played to a great extent.  I feel in the midrange and treble region, they can play with the uber speakers.  Bass response is good but not spectacular yet.  Perhaps plugging the ports may help.  

"When I ordered I asked about this. Eric said that the woofers have remained the same since the beginning. The entire woofer is 11" but the inner part is closer to 10. He said he got tired of people saying "Hey that's not 11 inches!" so he changed the listing, but said it's the same since the beginning."

Isn't it standard practice to list the driver size by the cone, not the entire driver with the surround included? 

The Encores are breaking in progressively. First the treble was emphasized, then after some serious electronica, the bass loosened up. Then the mids and highs were recessed, now the upper mids are recessed.  I'm thinking the polycell array needs the most time to loosen up, due to the limited excursion of the many tweeters. 

So you have a new (last) modification.

The entire frame of the mid-bass driver measures about 7.25."

How about the mid-bass? Do you have 6.5" or 7" mid-bass drivers?

When I ordered I asked about this. Eric said that the woofers have remained the same since the beginning. The entire woofer is 11" but the inner part is closer to 10. He said he got tired of people saying "Hey that's not 11 inches!" so he changed the listing, but said it's the same since the beginning.

Forgot to specify which Encore's modification you have - old (11 "woofers) or new (10" woofers)?

The DIs were good, great even at times. But I don't miss them now that I have the Encores.

Thank you for such an informative message. Often old love is determined by the amount of nostalgia. Don't miss the sound of DI?

@vsedakov I had upgraded DIs for a year and a half. They were really enjoyable speakers. I definitely prefer the Encores. Compared to the DIs, the Encores are fuller, wider and taller. Bass is significantly deeper as well. The Encores are mellower sounding than the DIs. They are definitely not sleepy or lazy speakers though - just more refined. DIs are a bit more forward in their presentation. I often found myself wishing the DIs had more "body" to the sound. The Encores deliver that fuller sound I had been wanting.

sid-hoff-frenchman You seem to have had DI before. How does Encores compare to DI? Some say DI is a faster and more energetic speaker. What is your opinion?

I haven't heard Moabs, but large-scale classical music sounds fantastic on my Encores.

Do any of you listen to classical ie, full large-scale orchestra music? I wonder if Encores or Moabs are better for this. Any thoughts?

@protoss71 How is your warming up going? Judging by the time, major changes should have already occurred.

Nice to know the resistor pots are there if I need them. I will call Tekton for details if I feel the need to use them. Burning in going ok. Initially edgy treble and recessed bass, now boomy, one note bass and recessed highs, mids are clearing gradually. No “live” feel yet. Although, that seems to be a trait of the Moab’s more then the encores from what I have read. No Thiel “edge” so far, the reason i purchased a different brand from my 2.3’s.  

The front vents were removed a few months back and Encores with front vents come with plugs. 

The Encore has two resistor pots. One for midrange array and one for the tweeter. It makes it a bit more versatile. I'm not aware of anyone actually using the resistor pots.

  

@protoss71 My understanding is that they had a few of the front ported Encore frames already built and I imagine they wanted to use them, but still offer the new non front-ported sound, hence the foam plugs. If they are removable that gives you some options to at least play with porting and unporting them to see which you prefer. 
Regarding the upper quad resistor posts, I asked Eric about them. He said if you use some resistors you basically can turn down the tweeter. He said with such expensive speakers if people wanted a tweak, installing those resistors allowed him to offer some tweaks from a distance. If you feel it is too bright and want to turn down the tweeter, you would need to reach out to them to send you some resistors. I haven’t heard of anyone yet using them. But you never know, you might have a super bright amp or room or something.

Out of general curiosity though, I wonder why the Encores have four resistor posts each, while it looks like the Ulfberhts only have two. 

Welcome to Tekton @protoss71. I was simply told to disregard these things.   I will say, they sound awesome though. 

What’s is the deal with no owners manual? I don’t know how to use the jacks to add resistors to alter the sound. No paper manual is no prob, but why not email
me a digital manual? 

Liking the encores so far. I did read that the newer encores no longer have the front mid bass ports in earlier posts. Mine came with the ports, but with foam plugs in each of them. I found that strange. Why have the ports if you are going to plug them? Maybe a pair that never got delivered, then Eric found ports do not work as was planned, then just plugged the ports rather than scrap the speaker? 

Would be great if more speaker manufacturers would break in a few hours like zu audio does. My Woo Audio headphone amp needed 500(!) hours to properly break in. Darn Blackgate capacitors! Putting the Encores through rapid break in. I live in a single family home, no neighbors to complain. Able to crank them up and shut the door. Using electronica to loosen up those woofers. 

Enjoy! In my experience they definitely went through significant changes over the first 200 hrs. I think they still are continuing to evolve slightly at this point. Throughout the break-in period at different times different frequencies would either seem muted or dominant. But they eventually smooth out and become balanced.

Congrats dude, have fun! 

Needs break in, hopefully. One hour on them so far.  I did not take care of unpacking instructions. Styrofoam everywhere. No damage to the drivers. High frequencies need refinement. 100 hours of anxious waiting.  

Holy smokes, these babies are huge. Totally dwarf my Theil 2.3's. I looked at the sizes online, but it did not prepare me for how they look in person. Totally dominate my small listening room. Effin' gorgeous! Flawless dark grey finish. Undamaged in transit. Whoever said the poly cell array looks unsightly is insane. I love the smell of new audio equipment! 

@protoss71 I had both 4/8ohm taps on my Art Audio and my Allnic A6000 Monoblocks. The Encore is a 4ohm speaker.  Congrats on getting yours in.  Update us when you come.  I'm really enjoying my Friday with my new Holo Audio May KTE r2r dac that should up several weeks ahead of schedule. It is sublime to listen to. 

They are here!  Still in the boxes. Will unpack them this weekend. @jcarcopo, did your Art Audio Diavolo SET 300b Tube Amplifier have only an 8 ohm output? And were your Encores 4 ohm? I will be driving my 4 ohm encores with an 8 ohm tap from my Woo Audio WA5 occasionally. 

Protoss71,
On the surface I can understand your concern/skepticism. The 30 pound weight reduction (roughly 17%) per speaker isn’t insignificant. Could it be due to smaller magnet assemblies/inductors/ cabinet/bracing? I do not believe that Tekton would intentionally lessen the quality of the Encore.

Does not make sense to me (Shooting themselves in the foot). My suspicion is that these changes you cite are probably efforts to improve and refine an already highly praised product. Youll be able to listen and judge for yourself  soon. My hunch is that youll be very happy with the Encores.
Charles