coot, here are your amps: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649626932-audio-mirror-45w-set-monoblocks/i have an older pair w/o some of the upgrades these have, and they're very nice. with power to spare; they can probably drive almost anything except really inefficient speaker in a big room.. if you want to bi-amp, the way to do it is with an active crossover set at 40-100hz, (depending on room and speakers), and a pair of subwoofers driven by solid state or class-d amp. unless a conventional speaker's normal bi-amp x-over point is 100hz or less, i'd stick w/identical amps if bi-amping... imo, of course. 😉 and, if you have room, i'd recommend going to actively crossed subs even if your main speakers go deep. that's because most speakers that can dig even into the 20 hz frequencies have their first x-over point anywhere between 300hz-1khz. and if they don't have to see that last 40-100 hz, the mains themselves will sound better, as well as the low bass sounding better. and the amps driving the mains will also thank you! probably a lot, if they're set amps? 😉 doug s. |
@bourcier - i had a very bad experience w/steve deckert a few years back. at the time, i had some very efficient 97db/1w coincident victory's. steve assured me that one of his low power ~4wpc amps (i forget which model) would have no problem driving them - even tho his amp was 4 ohms, and the victory's were 14 ohms. it seemed to me that his amp would only be making ~1.3w into a 14 ohm load.
well, i was right; fortunately the amp i bought was used, and i was able to unload it w/o taking a bath; but it was a total waste of my time. the amp wouldn't even get to normal listening levels when fully cranked, let alone loud. and i had three other 4wpc amps to compare, that had no problem driving the speakers to louder than comfortable levels. i can't say i trust deckert all that much...
ymmv,
doug s. |
hi charles1dad, amps i used to drive the coincident victory’s to loud enough to drive you out of the room worked because they were not 4 ohm only amps. a true 4 ohm 4wpc amp (like the decware amp i tried) will put out a little over 1wpc into a 14 ohm load. two amps were custom-made home-brew amps i got off ebay - one made by a hobbyist in germany; the other by a chinese gentleman living in australia. (if you do a websearch on "mcchanson Web Page" you’ll find the aussie’s work; the german has a webpage - http://www.goldstrom.de/ ) the aussie amp is ~4.5w set w/6v6 valves; i had the builder add 16 ohm speaker tap from the x-former (add’l speaker tap not shown in builder’s original pic: https://photos.google.com/search/custom/photo/AF1QipNFC9OKiWe8u2-mHtNG1bf4GZ1Qtw3IbGCTLrVhthe german amp is 3wpc el84 set amp; it was built w/5 ohm x-formers; w/info from the builder, i swapped them out w/16 ohm x-formers: https://photos.google.com/search/custom/photo/AF1QipM5chUDTvm2YJ7APEN684nrbqaupF96Iv4zRmRfthese ~4wpc el84 set amps were pulled from an akai m8 r-2-r tape deck; 8 ohm taps: https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipM_-qPgUAuLEbhBym1VjgNTE0xZHO95-3rMarKpfinally an el84 sep commercial product - almarro a205a mkii; ~5wpc; output tap rated 8/16 ohms: https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipMWSYxNls1meOmyBbt1PW7vqjX97ZguaGm5gXWGdigging thru my old records indicates it’s the zen taboo amp i owned; rated 6wpc into 4 ohms, not 4wpc; which means that it’s putting out something like 1.7w into 14 ohms. even srajan ebaen, who reviewed this amp, said it didn’t drive his 12 ohm zu’s very well, much preferring the 6 ohm model. pricewise, the zen retailed for ~$1k, the almarro for ~$800. my other amps were way less; $300 shipped for the german amp being the most expensive. they all crushed the decware in performance, all sounding absolutely fabulous. they all also sound great on my oris 150 horns, w/fostex drivers... doug s. |
hi
charles1dad, yes, good transformers are important. but it's not like the transformers in the decware zen taboo were shoddy. https://6moons.com/audioreviews/decware/taboo_2.htmlit was simply that they're set up at 4 ohms, and have unusually low input sensitivity. this should have been a red flag, and steve deckert could have been more forthright when i queried him about how they'd match w/my 14 ohm speakers. but in fact, it seems his answer will depend on who's asking the question, and what steve wants them to hear. i have emails from steve about this; when i told steve about my results, he said he knew why my set-up wasn't working (w/my high-gain preamp), and added: "
The Taboo is ideally suited for 8 ohm speakers. It will do 4 ohm and 16 ohm, but would rather see 16 ohms then 4. I’m not sure how the 6 moons review got listed as lower is better. While that is true with many of our amps, it is not true with the Taboo." i explained to him that srajan got those results w/the taboo working better on his 6 ohm vs 12 ohm zu's, and that steve told him it was to be expected. so, i asked him i'd love to hear why he thinks the taboo's didn't work in my set-up. i never heard back from him. ;~) doug s. |
ditusa - whatever is it you are trying to say?
" sensitivity is not efficiency"
- ok, so it isn’t. but if a speaker’s sensitivity is 96dB 2.83V@1m sensitivity, that’s pretty efficient, no?
" your amps out put is about 3/4 watts to get 96Db not 1 watt"
- so, this means it’s even *more* efficient than if it needed 1 watt, right? or, are you saying the amp’s output needs to be 3 to 4 watts to get 96db, not three-quarters of a watt? and you know this because...? even w/4 ohm rated speakers, it will take 2w to get 96db, not 3 or 4w.
" my speakers are 3% efficiency @ 8 ohms so 4 watts is 104 Db @ 2 meters not 96 Db"
- so, if your speakers are 8 ohms, that means the sensitivity rating for 2.83V@1m would be 98db, right? 101db doubles the power to 2 watts, doubling the distance from 1m to 2m doubles the power again to 104db. (assuming 2.83v is equivalent to 1w)
" it is also (all so?!?) 4 ohms not 8 so your at a real 90 Db sensitivity "
now, i am aware that the 2.83v = 1w is for 8 ohm-rated speakers; for a speaker that sees a 4 ohm load, it takes 2w to get the same output. so, it’s possible (likely?) that at 1m, the encores are rated at 93db for 1w at 1m, not the 96db as stated, but not 90db either. still on the efficient side...
you really should post what others who are reading it, can understand what it is you’re trying to say. and get your facts correct.
doug s. |
what i's like to see is a mini-ulfberht, with the moab's tweeters and woofers, and the encore's two 7" mid-bass drivers between the woofer and tweeter array, like in the ulfberht's, which use four of the 7" drivers. maybe, too close in size/cost? or at least a mini ulfberht w/the 10" woofers of the encore, instead of the 12" woofers. i do believe someone custom ordered a pair of the encores that way, w/the woofers top-n-bottom, instead of both at the bottom. i'd definitely want the encores that way, were i to order a pair...
doug s. |
whacky - the benefit of having the woofers high & low, as opposed to having both at the floor, is more even room loading of the bass. different locations of the bass drivers means low-end standing waves are more evenly spread out in the room, with a smoother in-room response.
it does appear that the tweeters are a bit different in the encores than in the moabs and the ulfberhts; i'm also curious about this. it could be just the tweeter's surround and spacing is different, but maybe not? and what does the different spacing achieve in one vs the other?
doug s. |
jcarcopo - i suspect the tweeters are the same in all these speakers, except for the waveguides being different. the encore's and the di/se's seem to have the same waveguide, while the ulfberht's and the moab's have the same waveguide. and, while i'm not sure, i also suspect the spacing has to do with the adjacent woofers/midwoofers. the smaller waveguide tweeters are adjacent to the single midwoofers, while the tweeters w/the larger waveguides are adjacent to either 12" woofers, or a pair of midwoofers. (or 10"/12"/15" woofers of the perfect set's).
and yes, if you were to build the encores w/a woofer at the top, you would want a taller cabinet; i believe the custom encore i heard about was installed in a cabinet similar to the taller moab cabinet. of course, you could always raise the cabinets. years ago, i owned a pair of coincident victory's, (great speakers, btw), and they sounded better when raised ~14" - which then had them mimicking the super-victory's but w/o the additional side-firing woofers. raising those speakers considerably enhanced the soundstaging, and i'm certain the same would apply to encores w/standard 62" cabinets, but one woofer at the top of the array... if my calcs are correct, the center of the present encore's middle tweeter is ~44.6" above the floor, or a mite higher if the speaker has spikes or feet. |
jcarcopo - definitely better tweets in the di/se's than the standard di's. per what i said, i suspect these are the same as what's in the encores, and i think the moab's, ulfberht's, and the prefect set's also use this same tweeter, tho w/different waveguide. while it's hard to be certain, imo, the waveguide on the tweets in the di/se's and the encores looks closer to this, than the one you cited: https://www.parts-express.com/wavecor-tw030wa14-30mm-textile-dome-neodymium-tweeter-with-heat-sink-a...- just a bit more taper. but, it could be an illusion, as both are listed as the same dimensions on wavecor's site, w/only difference being 4 vs 8 ohms and i see nothing on the p/e website that looks like the bigger waveguides in the moab's and the ulfberhts. and nothing on wavecor's site w/5 perimeter screws... it's possible (likely?) that eric can get custom drivers, as he is ordering in quantity. even for a single pair, ha ha! doug s. |
i have only heard the double impacts, but reading about the amps used and going into shutdown, someone might want to audition electrocompaniet amps. i have an older pair of ec aw75 dual mono amps; they're rated at 75wpc into 8 ohms, 140/4 ohms; 220/2 ohms, stable into loads <1 ohm. but the thing about them - and about all ec amps - is the current - these amps are rated >60 amps current. and all ec amps are like that. and, they're considered by many as solid state gear for those who like tubes
lowest powered ec amps presently in production are the aw180 monoblocks, at 250w into 8 ohms and >100 amps current. but you can find great deals on the used aw25/50/60/65/75/100/120/250 stereo amps.
doug s. |
protoss71 -
you mean you wish the tweeter was higher? that’s an easy fix - raise the speakers.
or, if you really *do* mean you wish the tweeter was lower, then get a listening seat that is lower.
doug s. |
protoss71 - well, then, raise your listening position! ;~)
doug s. |
