Considering simplifying my system... talk me down (or whatever)

@ mtdining

there are two kinds of high end audio companies - those who invest heavily in research and development (think Wilson Audio, Ayre, Spectral) and those who invest primarily in marketing.

There are also two types audiophiles; gullible putzes like yourself, and just putzes like me ;-)
Wilson audio wrote the book on BS, LOL…

Congrats on your longevity and superb hearing! As a lifelong musician, my early days in a rock n roll band have robbed me of a fair bit of my auditory acuity, so the following comments should be taken with however many grains of salt might be appropriate. Having said that, you mentioned a “Cayin something-or-other.” This piqued my interest. I am a very satisfied owner of a Cayin A88t integrated tube amplifier. It is currently driving a pair of Martin Logan Motion 40’s (ML haters be damned lol). To my admittedly somewhat compromised ears, this combination satisfies all listening requirements from vintage jazz and classical to classic rock and modern hip-hop, and is a stone-cold bargain for the price (it also satisfies my room size limitations). Add a decent phono preamp, and you’re good to go. Just a little food for thought. Best of luck in your pursuit!

Don't do it, most people that simplify are saying they are giving up on this hobby. You will in the end join the ranks of people that let go of a system that may have taken years to assemble and that was a source of great pleasure to be replaced with something that at best is mediocre in comparison.

The Klipsch factory was using a Cayin integrated for good reason, there is no need to look further. I too have an A-88T. It can drive almost any speaker to satisfying levels. Its transparency, detail and soundstaging are on-par with many expensive, separates-comprised systems I’ve heard. Get one of these or its KT-88 brethren, adjust the bias to 400mV and live happily ever after. I use mine with Heresy IIIs.

Contact Steve Leung of VAS and ask him about Cayin/Klipsch synergy

I haven't read the full thread, so maybe this was answered, but WHY??? You use your TT and have a phono stage that you will probably want to keep. Then the only simplifying you will be doing is to change out the pre and power amp for an integrated. There are some great ones out there now, but to get something equal to or better than what you already have would hardly be cost effective. If you are just in an upgrade mood and want something new, then I guess it makes sense to look at some integrated amps, but if not just keep what you have.

Been having the same thoughts. Dynaco and C-J tubes my whole life. Too many wires, too many LPs, too many CDs.

But I'm only 71 and going to give it 9 more years. Congrats on your milestone!

pinkyboy—You've got the right idea, but your scope is off. When I reached age 82, in 2012, we concluded that it was time for us to simplify and downscale. So we moved 12 miles from our suburban bayside house into a modest but adequate condo that's located in the core of our pleasant small town—and just 1 mile from a fine hospital.

That move necessitated giving up our existing audio system, composed of big floor-standing speakers and giant 400 Watt power amplifier, preamps, TT, tape deck, tuner, et al., and transitioning to a far smaller system that would be appropriate for our new condo living room.

After some over-simplified trials that proved inadequate, I settled on BBC-type mini-monitor main speakers that sit on the fireplace mantle + a pair of JL Audio E-Sub e110 self-powered subwoofers that hide in the front corners. I use a passive preamp that feeds an electronic crossover, which then splits the feed (at 96 Hz) between the main power amp and the two self-powered subs. I use only two sources: a high quality CD player and a FM-HD tuner (highly upgraded) that's always tuned to a classical music station. The sound is truly glorious, and clearly better than I've ever done before. (And I've been building hi-fi systems since 1954.) A NOTE: The condo LR is only 16' x 23', but it has a 12 foot ceiling. WOW! That really helps!

So stick with what you've got for as long as you're in your present home. The time to dump your system is when you downsize your entire environs. Then restart afresh; see what fits.

I don't know what your finances permit, but you might just try something in home for a while before you sell any of your current gear.  Several online dealers have 30-day return policies, and you can always buy a used component and then resell it if it's not an improvement over what you have.  My personal suggestion would be the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP with KT150 tubes.  One of the advantages of the Primaluna is that it's auto-biasing, and it take a wide range of tubes.  Regardless of what you do, enjoy the journey!

I'm 83.5 and have been working on downsizing with limited success for several years.  The real downsized setup is an Ayre A7e integrated, Codex DAC with microRendu that plays files sent via Ethernet from a Mac Mini by Roon.  The speakers are KEF LS50s.  The sort of downsized setup is Ayre QX-5 digital hub that plays files sent via Ethernet from an iMac, KX-5 DSD disco player, KX-5/20 preamp, and VX-5/20 amp.  The speakers are KEF Ref 1s.  I think the ultimate downsize when we move to a local retirement complex will be a merger of the two:  Ayre QX-5 for streaming, DX-5 DSD disco player, A7E or AX-5 integrated, KEF Ref 1s.

Unless you plan on moving it, what could be simpler than doing nothing?

I've gone down a similar road with the modified Klipshorns, tractrix horns, changed out all drivers and internal wiring. I went with Crites crossovers, which I modded with Jupiter VT, Audyn True Copper Max capacitors, all Duelund wiring, point to point wiring, binding posts.  Klipschorns are certainly magical when modded and used with proper partnering equipment!
As for downsizing, I'd be careful. Not saving a whole lot of complication simply changing out integrated for separates. I'm getting near retirement age and my system has grown more complicated with computer digital now being my main source. I have an incredible mess of various digital pieces of equipment, interconnecting wire and linear power supplies. It seems I love the stimulus of the steep learning curve diy computer audio requires.
Perhaps someday when physical limitations intrude, I may have to simplify. I just wonder if you're really seeking to simplify or maybe just wanting to try out something new. I suspect your system is already pretty optimized, many changes will only be lateral. My only advice is to try out a SET amp if you're insistent on change. SET amps are simply wonderful with Klipschorns, bring out all the best attributes of Klipschorns.  Illusion of real performers in room, wow!  Good luck with whatever direction you take.

Keep it for as long as possible!  Rest assured that if you do have to downsize, there are many fine options no matter which route you take, and that will be another chapter in your audiophile journey. You ought to be excited actually.  You have a great system already and all you need to do now is enjoy it.  When the time comes to move on, well that will be an exciting journey as well.

At 68, I share your sentiment. Like my wife, I have a hard time letting go of things I like. Recently I moved from separates to a Rogue Integrated tube, only because it was past time for my most loved 33 year old Audible Illusions Pre. to be sent in for re-cap and up-grades, even though it still performed like a champ. I do enjoy the good sound and simplicity of using the Rogue Integrated. It does have a built in decent phono stage, so have come to believe that downsizing from separates too integrated, doesn't necessarily mean a bad trade off. If I ever have to be concerned about space, I could very comfortably live with a good integrated......Jim

Maybe you are telling yourself "simplying" but really what you are feeling is the need for a change, but can’t put your finger on it?


Unrelated to audio, I can remember when I got my first digital SLR. I took the film camera out of the bag and put it in the drawer. At least initially, I did not want the temptation of grabbing it. 11 years later, having never come out of the drawer, I put it on Ebay. Over that time, several digital SLRs went through my hands, each bringing new fun to the hobby.

Maybe you shouldn’t look at this as a time of simplification, but a time of exploration? What new ways can you find to enjoy the hobby of audio and music listening?

I suggest you look into the Bakoon integrated amps.Unfortunately none have inbuilt phono stages but they are compact minimalist sort of amplifiers and have incredibly natural and pure sound.They also sound superb with high sensitivity speakers like Klipsch and Tannoy.They do not sound like any other SS amp you have heard because they do not operate like any other SS amp.They are much closer to a really good SET amp-being current drive and having high output impedance but also using the unique Bakoon Satri circuit.They are by far the best amplifier I have ever heard for reproducing piano.They do tintinnabulation in a way that I have never heard before from an audio system.
I use the 35 watt Satri 5521 but even the cheaper 15 watt ones sound superb.Just to confuse you there are Japanese made Bakoons and Korean made ones.I have only used the Japanese ones.For me they are the ultimate minimalist package because they cut to the essence of what is beautiful in music and dispense with even the slightest hint of grunge or timing smear.

Simplest to not simplify your system if it works.  It might be anything but simple and set you off on the upgrade path again

This comes a little late in the discussion, but as they say, better late...

When I retired at 70, I too faced the reality of 40 years of upgrading, tweaking and adjusting my music system. I ended up with what I considered an extraordinary system for the medium-size, high-ceiling room it was in--the Magnepan/REL, Bryston, Cary, Esoteric combo, with occasional help from ZSystems, was accurate and satisfying to my ears. (I have two discrete systems--one exclusively digital, the other analogue--in two separate locations in the house. But I digress...)

The problem was, even looking at these electronics could be intimidating to someone who just wanted to hear good music out of something other than a TV or a computer. So when I recently turned 71 I decided to stop fiddling with the stuff and simplify the setup--I replaced the imposing Magnepans with an ancient pair of refurbished, 2-way Advents (c.1972), driven by a pair of Bryston 4BSTs that I love, along with a McIntosh C52 pre and a new Marantz Ruby SACD player. Granted, a bit of the precision and clarity of the Maggies is gone, but the sound is a tad warmer, fuller and, well, more human. (The simple equalizer built into the C52 allows minor tonal adjustments if needed, but the SACD analogue playback quality from the Marantz is superb.) Remotes allow me to control almost everything from the couch.

What I’ve found to be more significant, however--don’t pooh-pooh this--is the wife factor. Since she learned which four buttons to push and not to play with the equalizer, my wife has become quite comfortable choosing her own music, turning the system on and listening alone. I once found her sitting, transfixed, with tears in her eyes from the beauty of what she was hearing.

Despite the very minor quibbles I might have with the current system, knowing that my wife can honestly enjoy music at a legitimate audiophile level without being intimidated by the electronics makes it worth every dime and every minute I’ve spent on it. It’s worth a thought. Thanks for the note. Jerry