Conrad Johnson Classic 120se vs. Cary Audio Design CAD120 MKII?

Blue T,

With these last pieces of info about your setup

I would go back to Conrad Johnson. I do not

think any retailer will give you a free two week home trial.

If unsure buy used and unload it if not happy.

If you want to make a trek up to the Seattle area I can arrange 

a Pass Demo that you will change your mind.

@bluethinker66 in an effort to keep it short, a demo at most audio stores has rarely given me enough to go on. If it’s not in my room, sources, cables, speakers, it’s a crapshoot as to what yer gunna get. A 2-week home demo at your place can reveal an entirely different type of result. Noting your list of nice gear, bet you already know this.

@decooney - I demoed the xa160.8 amps in downtown Portland at one of the local hifi stores. I'm not sure how long they had the amps on prior to actual demo. Maybe 24 or less would be my guess... In terms of my impression, I just didn't hear much air or spaciousness, which was a big surprise. Compared to my own set-up, they just sounded sort of pedestrian. I mean, they sounded "very good," but I would not feel compelled to purchase them given their price tag relative to other offerings. 

As for my own space, there is lots of reflective surfaces - wood floors, bare walls, a large set of sliding doors on one of the walls. It's a clean and modern aesthetic. We don't want to do any acoustic treatments, however... In terms of sound, our preference is on the warm/smoothed over side. My wife is sensitive to sound, so anything remotely bright immediately sets her off, unfortunately. 

@cellorover - I'm happy to hear you feel the CJ is a solid bet. And thank you for the Atmasphere suggestion. Folks seem to hold that company in high regard! 
 

It is good that bluethinker66 can get the feedback he is looking for. Given your system and room, the Pass XA 25 probably would not work, albeit maybe Pass’ best sounding amp. The reviews doing not do it justice. I agree that the xa160.8 is not for everyone, including my ears. I have heard older Carys so I cannot comment on the CAD120, but I liked their older products. The CJ has a purity and musicality that is hard to beat, saying that after having sold 2 and still went back to it (on #3 now) and will not sell it. I doubt you would be disappointed. But to give you another option, I will go out on a limb and suggest the Atmasphere Digital amp. It will have the power you need, it sounds wonderful (almost bought it but had to rethink everything when we moved and have not done anything since), and meets your requirements for new, US made, and budget. Hope this helps.

@bluethinker66 I actually went and demoed the xa160.8 amps (they didn’t have the xa60.8 amps available to demo, the xa160.8 are too expensive for me), and wasn’t terribly impressed. I was expecting to be blown away, but I wasn’t. Maybe they were not warmed up sufficiently?

Can you share a little more and describe what was missing for you with the xa160.8 amps? Did you bring them home or hear them somewhere else? How long did you let them stay powered up before sitting down doing any critical listening? (yes, if they had been sitting a while that first warmup for 24hrs helps, a lot). I checked out your speakers. Reading above about your larger room space to fill, high ceilings, open room setting, and the desire to stay away from mono amps - makes me think you’re going to end up needing a fairly capable and robust stereo amp to fill the house if that’s what you really want. Helps to know if you like a more open/large and detailed sound or something a bit smoothed over, not so forward or detailed. Also helps to know if you have carpeted areas or lots of hard floor surfaces in these large open spaces adjacent to your audio system listening space.  

@cellorover - Thank you for your reply. 

I have QLN Prestige Three speakers (8 ohms, 87.5 sensitivity). My room is large - it's a combination of a dining room, kitchen, living room - modern open layout. The ceilings are high, as well. 

I also have the Innuous Zenith, Merason DAC1 and LTA microzotl preamp. I've been using a 100 watt Audio Hungary tube amp, which has produced fantastic sound with the other components. Given the large space, I feel anything less than 100 watts just might not be enough... 

I realized I actually liked my own system more than the Pass Labs xa160.8 amps I demoed a few weeks back. I am, however, keen to have a US-based tube product to more easily deal with repairs, hence my desire to purchase the CJ or Cary tube power amp. 

I'd welcome your thoughts and advice! 

Correction. input not inlet.

BTW I have a Pass XA25 and CJ Classic 120SE, Merason DAC1, and Innuos Zenith.

@bluethinker66 

You are getting some good inlet, but what speakers are you using and what is your room like? You may or may not need 120 watts. Happy to share some thoughts once I have more information.

@jeffseight - I have found that the Linear Tube Audio preamp brings a ton of detail that I’d been missing with my former tube preamp. It’s pretty amazing. The combo of the LTA preamp with a tube power amp brings the best of both worlds for me. 
 

I actually went and demoed the xa160.8 amps (they didn’t have the xa60.8 amps available to demo, the xa160.8 are too expensive for me), and wasn’t terribly impressed. I was expecting to be blown away, but I wasn’t. Maybe they were not warmed up sufficiently? 
 

Question for you: what solid state amps would you recommend? I would like at least 100 watts of power to drive my speakers. I have a very large room to fill. 
 

I have been curious about CODA… 

I owned the Cary 120 MKII for a couple years. Paired with an Audible Illusions

Pre and older Tannoy FSMs the sound was warm and engaging.

I thought I was done.

When I had to take the Cary in for something-and there is always something

with tubes- I bought a pair of Pass Amp Camp monoblocks. 6wpc. $300

to tide me over.

I heard detail I never knew was on the recording. Fast Forward- I bought

a Pass Labs INT25 and never looked back. You want a well built product

built in the US with a great staff? 

Otherwise order two of your Tube products so you always have one working.

Conrad Johnson ....no doubt

@decooney - Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your guidance. 

@mjcmt - Hi! I'd consider the Rogue Audio 100. Have you had experience with that particular amp? If so, I'd love to hear your POV on its merits. 

Is there any reason the Rogue Audio Stereo 100 isn’t added to the CJ, Cary list of American made 100wpc tube power amps?

@bluethinker66 by chance have you heard any of the older gear from Cary or older generation components from CJ?

The reason I ask is I’ve owned multiple Cary units and friends with CJ who own both. Personally I’ve listened to more of the older version units vs the more modern ones. In fact, we’ve been in discussion this week about this particular topic.

I can share the Cary 120 is going to sound a little different than some some of the other Cary units folks have mentioned here. And, the same goes for the latest "se" version of CJ too. I’d recommend visiting the conradjohnson owners forum too.

My recommendation is you take extra time to speak with owners of both on phone calls and discuss in more detail sharing with them more about type of sound you enjoy more - the older lush sound or the newer modern sound some of these units have, fwiw. A buddy of mine just received his older version CJ unit today, preferring it over some of the newer SE designs as one example. We agreed one thing, "it all comes down to preference, and newer designs are not always better for everyone".

@ghdprentice - Thank you for your reply. If you are able to offer historical perspective on the house sounds of either Cary or CJ, I'd welcome learning from you! 

@ozzy62 - I'd love to hear your perspective on the modern CJ sound. Likewise, I'm curious about the Cary sound is too. I don't have any dealers where I live (Portland, Oregon), so I've not yet had the opportunity to hear either of them in person. 

I have no experience with those two particular amps. But in the past I’ve owned a Cary SLP-98 and and SLI-80 Signature. I’ve also owned CJ Premiere 17LS and a Premiere 140. As I type this I’m listening to a loaner MV-60.  I much prefer the modern CJ sound to the Cary sound. Just MHO…

On contemporary gear I don’t think I could coach… but you have two excellent amps in your sights.