Guys, seriously, can someone please explain to me how the Clever Little Clock (http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm) actually imporves the sound inside the litening room?
Arggg...no worse killjoy than having to explain one's wise-ass comments, but you seem like a nice guy Audioari1. I'm just undecided about how sincere you are, because I assume your posts are totally on the level, which makes me question whether your threadhead was really a troll.
Regardless, you asked for it, you got it: Above you said you found the manufacturer's explanations "plausible". Then you equated this mysterious principle with the photos-in-the-freezer experiment, which you correctly described as seeming "ridiculous", "crazy" and "silly" -- not exactly synonyms of "plausible". Ergo, when you call for "seriousness", who knows?, you might actually be calling for jollity and snarkiness.
Anyway, I'm dead serious in my message, I'm just choosing not to write that way because the subject doesn't deserve it, and besides this way is more fun. In addition (oh the tedium, but we're almost done), you fail to notice that it's a little late in the day and therefore unintentionally funny to call for "wise-ass comments" to be kept to a "minimum" when they already comprise at least half the thread -- my inference being that this is evidence of someone having their head in the sand with rose-colored glasses on (to mix a metaphor and leave a participle dangling all at once), and not coincidentally that's exactly what's required to give any credence to frauds like the CLC and the nonsense "behind" it to begin with. Hope that helped...
I really just want people to take two photos, one of them when they were young and another one that is current, and then put them both in the freezer. Then do some listening evaluation to determine if there was a sonic difference.
I believe that when something appears to be completely ridiculous, it is still important to remain open minded to test it, especially when the test is free. Remember when Consumer Reports claimed that Cervin Vega were the best speakers in the world and when Stereo Review wrote about how all interconnects sound the same?
I do admit that it is a ridiculous notion to think that keeping photographs in the freezer can change the sound quality of a system. But why not give it a try anyway?
Hi Audioari1, I think Zaikesman is stating that your request to keep a level of seriousness & maintain credibility has been somewhat undermined by your last statement of keeping wise-ass comments to a minimum. I'm not really sure myself if your dead serious in regards to your posts or just trying to be humorous? Which is it? It's no big deal but I was trying hard to read into your posts which path you have taken. If I have misread Zaiksman, I'm sure he will correct me as well.
Audioari1: Sorry, but you'll pardon me if I have to assume you define "certain level of seriousness" the same way you defined "plausible" above. But, I do have to hand it to you -- only somebody capable of granting credulity in this matter could possibly read through this thread and then write your last sentence...LOL ;^)
Audioari1: An experiment has been done by Rcprince and he was kind enough to report the results in detail on a prior Audiogon thread about the clock. Here's a direct link:
Can we keep a certain level of seriousness and composure in this thread? I really want fellow audiophiles to attempt this experiment and report the results. Let's keep the wise-ass comments to a minimum.
All of this clearly sounds ridiculous, but the goal here is to get at least a representative sample of audiophiles to try this to see if they notice a sonic imporvement. This experiment can be organized within 5 minutes. We might as well put the issue behind us and get to the bottom of this instead of speculating about quantum mechanics.
I am waiting for people in this forum to try this and report back their experiences, as crazy and silly as it sounds.
I thought of that, but my childhood preceeded the advent of digital photography. Also, with digital photos, a print would not necessarily exist, unless it had been made from the computer. These are difficult issues to ponder.....
Audioaril, If the listening room is built deep enough underground, the geothermal energy should keep it at about 55 degrees Fahrenheit. According to Belt's principles that should improve the sonics without the use of any fossil fuels. However, if one doesn't mind using fossil fuels, a room-size commercial freezer can be installed in the house as the high-end listening room. With the listener himself/herself in the freezer, it won't be necessary to put the photographs in the freezer.
"It is unfortunate that the vast majority of people, including many who work in science and technology, do not appreciate that a photograph functions within the quantum mechanical world."
It's difficult to "picture" how such a functional relationship would exist. Also, wouldn't the NEGATIVES of these prints cancel out this quantum mechanical interaction anyway? I'll defer to the wisdom of Heisenberg by expressing my uncertainty.
Here is something that you can do at home as a tweak that is completely free and will only cost you a few minutes of your time. This is also the concept used in the Clever Little Clock. I am very intrigued as to what others will experience. Please try this at home and let me know here if you believe that there was a sonic imporvement.
Here are excerpts from Belt's article:
"Simple everyday objects such as batteries., magnets., photographs and the very music recordings that we attempt to replay all conspire to seriously impair our senses. To understand this problem, it is necessary to realise the very basis upon which nature evolved the senses. Within each and all living creatures, there is an attempt to maintain an inner symmetrical pattern. The senses all measure the degree of asymmetrical energy patterns exterior to the body and compare the external asymmetrical energy patterns against the internal symmetrical energy patterns. Modern science and technology has surrounded each individual with innumerable objects which have asymmetric energy patterns that create a chronic problem for our senses. It is necessary to remove the effect of these environmental pollutants so that the senses can begin to function at a high level.
Each individual human had a fundamental adverse problem imposed on their senses when they had their first photograph taken. A photographic image captures the unique identity of the subject of the photograph but imposes a significant temporal (time) asymmetrical pattern. The action of this photograph radically changed the inner symmetry of the senses of the photographed human being. Fortunately, this debilitating adverse condition is reversible.
To restore a significant temporal (time) symmetry to any person's senses, it is necessary to acquire one photograph which was exposed when the person was young and another photograph exposed when the person was older. Each photograph is placed, individually, into it's own clear plastic bag. The two plastic bags, each containing a spaced time photograph of the same individual, should be placed inside the freezer compartment of the domestic refrigerator. This will create a most unusual beneficial phenomenon. After placing the two separate photographs within the freezer compartment, either live or recorded music should be played within the listening room. A significant improvement to the musical sound should have taken place. Removing the photographs from the freezer compartment should produce an immediate adverse response if the music is played again. Replacing the two photographs within the freezer compartment will immediately restore the beneficial improvement in the sound. It should be noted that it is not necessary for the photographs to reach the low temperature of the freezer compartment. This experiment demonstrates that within the freezer compartment, there exists a high degree of symmetry and that this symmetrical condition is imposed on the temporal asymmetric condition of the two chronologically spaced photographs and is, in turn, imposed on the senses of the human subject of the photographs. It is unfortunate that the vast majority of people, including many who work in science and technology, do not appreciate that a photograph functions within the quantum mechanical world."
So guys, take a photograph of yourself when you were really young and a current one and put in the freezer. Please let me know if you can hear an imporvement. I thought I did, but then sound is so subjective and the experience is subjective. I want to see what other people have to say.
Charlie101, I'm sure the clever little clock constantly monitors its time against the atomic clock, keeping it accurate within seconds of each year however only time will tell. Definately check out Wellfed's write-up on this superb product & click on his posted link, I found it educational & totally inspiring!
Audiofankj, yes you will find this product widely used by people that own beachfront property in Arizona that don't normally post a virtual system. Good luck!
Musicdoc, interesting post! Or maybe it emits a high frequency sound not audible to the human ear, repelling rodents & other pests thus creating a quieter listening enviroment.
I was so curious about how this thing worked, that this afternoon I actually got on the phone with Jeff at Machina Dynamica. He really didn't want to go into details as he was worried that an explanation into how the clock works would raise even more eyebrows then not providing any explanation at all. After I probed him some more he finally revealed some details to me that were so mind boggling that it really made me actually consider buying this thing.
As I promised him, I will not reveal the details here; but there was a plausable, although mind boggling explanation. There may actually be something to this thing. I figure that if it comes with a 30-day in home trial, you really have nothing to risk.
Also, I thought that Jeff was a really intelligent down to earth guy who was not trying to over-sell his products. Very interesting.
just went to wal-mart and cleaned them out of cheap chinese-made LCD desk clocks. will begin my own proprietary modifications which will have their effects on the sub-atomic level, thus being indetectible to even close scrutiny. no adhesive dots here! (which incidentally, are just several aisles over from the LCD clocks......). the end result will be greater spiritual awareness on the part of the listener, their having been enlightened as to the illusory nature of time itself, which then takes them deeper into the present with a resultant immediate connection to the music playing, thus rendering moot system quality, system placement, and room characteristics. BTW a set of ginsu knives is included with each order but only if you place your pre-order now! $79.95 plus shipping.
It has no direct effect on the audio signal, yet it has a pronouced effect on the sound of digital & analog systems. What! How? Sounds like alot of double talk! Or maybe you can just buy one and solve the mystery for $199.00.
I don't understand why people are so keen on trashing this particular product. It has no less scientific legitimacy than any number of tweaks that you wouldn't dare criticize unless you were prepared to weather a storm--green pens, cable lifts, many high-priced cables themselves, isolation devices for electronics, etc. If we start doubting clocks, where will it end?
(When I first saw the Intelligent Chip, I thought it was a spoof. Then I found out they were really selling the thing. Now I think Machina Dynamica is actually a performance art project.)
Joe: Don't you dare touch that rocky soil of yours! I'm completely dependent on its being exactly where it is, undisturbed and having absolutely no relation or interaction with my system in the least -- otherwise my sound will just totally fall apart (especially if you ever put a jar of it inside your car). Sorry to impose upon you this way, but I know you'll understand and do what's best for your fellow audiophile. My check for $199 is in the mail. Others should follow suit if they want this hobby to survive. Bless you. (Call me from the yacht sometime!)
The Pebbles, in my experience, provided greater soundstage depth. I seem to recall that it also increased system resolution, but my recall on that point is suspect.
I've written about my experience with the Clever Little Clock at the link shown below.
now snake oil may turn out to be more complicated. there would inevitably be different types and grades available, each best suited for particular equipment, listeners, contact points, reflection points, different sizes of rooms and room treatments etc. and would south american, european, asian or african snake oils be more effective than american snake oils? and can they be taken internally as original snake oils were intended to be? and if so, would they enhance your listening experience? AND could you oil your little clock and pebbles with it, thus further enhancing THEIR positive effect on your system? the mental masturbatory prospects are limitless in this hobby it seems, as long as gullible people have dispoable income. god bless america!
Of course, after I thought about it, we probably can't use "actual" snake oil, as there would be an animal cruelty issue there. But, I have heard via a good source, that a plant based equivalent can be used to VERY good result. I don't want to mention what it actually is in this thread, as the likelihood of someone stealing our idea is so great, but I'll be sure to get in touch offline.
And, by the way, anyone interested in jars of rocks should know that I own almost 2.5 acres of rocky Pennsylvania soil. Despite what others may try to offer up, you CANNOT get this from anywhere but here. I'd like to state that I am willing to provide this product, in jars 25% larger than what people are providing now, at a 25% lower cost. Hey, I could never live with myself by ripping anyone off...
YES!!! That is it, start selling real snake oil. I think we should start the company and I will write the first review about how the background became so transparent that the walls of my house fell down and the band appeared in front of me....Or maybe that is the "special" snake oil that we only sell to the most discriminating clients.
Eldartford, you could not be more misguided my friend. If you had any idea what you're talking about, you'd know that the CLC *attracts* UFOs. How else do you account for those user testimonials if not alien abduction?
BTW, I hear the company is going to be coming out with a version specially engineered for the single-ended-triode, horns'n'vinyl crowd, the "Clever Little Sundial"...
Trelja: I'm in! You and me buddy, The Original Audiophile Genuine Snake Oil Company, let's go! Just dab a little around your system and behind the ears! (Not responsible for consequences when used by audiophiles having a pet mongoose. Not available in Ireland.)
This brings up a question - Does the 'placebo effect' only work if you Believe in the product(s)? If you don't think it will work, does that "negate" the placebo effect?? This is about the placebo effect in general, not really pertaining to this device.
According to the manufacturer, "The Clever Little Clock does not plug into the wall and has no direct influence on the audio signal -- not on house wiring, audio components, cables, interconnects, power cords or acoustic waves."
Therefore, they openly admit that it does absolutely nothing. However, some users make a claim that the Clever Little Clock eliminates "mental clutter".
This is by far the most disturbing audio accessory and takes away from the credibility of the industry as a whole.
Check the archives it's been discussed time and time before. My theory is that if a tweek is "audiophile approved" and sold as such ,people that buy it "expect" an improvement and believe they hear an improvement at least on the psychological level.Who knows. George
This brings back memories about how big LED clock can improve the sound. There was even a discussion on whether the green LED clock or red LED clock should be used.
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