Classical Music for Aficionados
While searching for RVWillians thru all the shelves, cabinets, and boxes, I was listening to Alan Hovhaness Symphony No.50 "Mount St. Helens" (DELOS SE 3711)... By its 3rd Movement, The Eruption, I have almost s$%#t myself! I could not believe that my lowly Naim Audio can produce the sound of such Volcanic proportions! It is my favorite Holst and Kitaro combined, stunning!!! |
@schubert "The Late LvB Quartets " by the Yale Qt. Damned right. $214 may seem like a lot to those who don’t know the music or the performance, though. @sfseay Atheists enjoy religious music too. Some of my favourite music is directly religious in nature: Gregorian Chant, Thomas Tallis, William Byrd. And most of Bach, of course. Why not try it, whether you are religious or not? |
I don't doubt as many atheists listen to religious music as believers terry9 , of course its open to all . I’ve known atheists who live more Christian lives than most Christians do . The 3 or 4 I’ve known well were all lovers of life who were "jilted " lovers by the evil so called believers cause and the good they don’t do . I have both the LP and CD of the Yale LvB and IMO $214 is too much . My LP set is now undergoing cryo at -12F in my MN storage locker, maybe that will change my mind . |
Have always found Haydn Symphonies difficult -- they are not quite as dramatic as Mozart's later works and most performances do not bring me back for repeated listenings. Then, this last year, found the Thomas Fey/Heidelberger Sinfonien Haydn CDs. These performances work for me -- very powerful and the content is perfectly matched to the performance style. They are available online. Listed as "Complete Symphonies" they seem available only as individual CDs. The other candidate is the London Mozart Players/Glover sets that make a close second for me. |
Sevs: BTW, can the pundits on this thread recommend a complete Vaughan Williams symphony set? Would like to investigate the works en toto. |
Craig, FWIW I doubt that Hovhaness is ever going to be more popular than he has been made by Mysterious Mountain. He's been around a long time and his music is a bit too eclectic for most. You might try another Schwartz/Seattle Performance on Mount St Helens/City of Light Symphonies on Delos. I grew up with Reiner and the CSO performance of Mysterious Mountain on Living Stereo and I still like it a lot. On LP and a good system it is outstanding, I think. |
There is a fine 30 CD set of RVW on Warner Classics, if memory serves about 60$ on Amazon . Vocals works are excellent .Nothing bad . Boult, Groves and Handley etc, all noted as RVW approved . Only drawback is no notes , but there is a rundown of same on Amazon I printed out . The voice of Janet Baker alone is worth 60$ |
I believe so craig59, but I have misplaced my cheat sheet and can’t say for sure, in any event I never heard a bad Boult . My real man with RVW is Vernon Hadley, nobody did more for English composers..IMO Handley was the most sensitive conductor of RVW and the Warner Classics are heavy on him with RLPO. LPO and others . I like good sound myself but can, and do at times , listen to a scratchy old 78 if the performance merits it . |
schubert: Decided to go with the remastered Boult set, along with some of the Stanford pieces mentioned above. Will let you know. Your comments about 78s reminds me of the point I made on the first post above; there are great performances out there that are sabotaged for some because of recording quality. I commend you on being able to get past that to the content below. Unfortunately, have been a musician and studio person for so long that I can no longer suffer bad fidelity. Think it was you that mentioned Alwyn, an interesting symphonist. Have grown to like his 4th symphony and Elizabethan Dances (on a Chandos release) and, so, ordered all 5 of the symphonies by LSO/Hickox. Amazon is having trouble with this delivery but will let you know my reactions when they arrive. Alywn's formal style is much different than Arnold's. He has, to my ears, a more consistent approach towards delivering and developing themes. So many superb English symphonists during the 20th century. Sad to think that the recent downturn in classical appreciation may have caused an end to this tradition. |
Well, the old saw the good is the enemy of the best IMO should be the revised to bad taste is the enemy of everything I don’t know if it’s true or not but a Professor I had once said ."There will never be another Mozart , no one born in the age of television will ever have his clarity of mind " . As I said I don’t know, but as someone who was around well before TV (and rock) it rings true for a LOT of things . |
Well, the clarity of Mozart's mind is heightened by the precise nature of many early music performances. Recently ran across a Nimbus CD of the Hanover Band/Goodman doing his most popular items: the g-minor symphony (#40), Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, and the Clarinet Concerto. Nothing special in this -- except the clarinetist is playing a "Basset Clarinet;" with a lower range than the modern instrument and sounding very, very smooth. This used purchase set me back the handsome sum of fifty cents and has become my goto selection for the clarinet concerto -- one of those works you definitely should take with you to a desert island. |
Thanks Again, TwoLeftEars! Based on your recco ordered the Chandos Vaughan Williams CD with "Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus." You're completely right; this is a fabulous/addictive piece and recording. Still haven't gotten the CD but am listening through Amazon music -- that automatically adds SOME of the CDs you buy to its media player. Sadly, this audio animal only produces MP3 files and these, truly, suck for quality orchestral playback. Can't wait to get the CD later this week, There is no sense of immediacy with MP3 -- the orchestra sounds distant and muffled (am using the best settings and computer equipment, btw). Also took your advice and picked up the Chandos Pleyel Symphonies and the CPO Sinfonia Concertantes. Amazon puts about 1/5 of the CDs you buy into the AutoRip media player and only the symphonies appeared (suspect this is licensing -- does anyone know?). In any case, the Pleyel is what I remember from the Mozart quotes -- effortless and airy with a tendency towards casualness. Still, worth investigating. Now its back to another listen of the "Dives." It's a keeper. |
Schubert: Must check out your Schubert/Goodman recordings. Have a number of the symphonies with Weil/Sony that are good but just a touch sterile. Surprise, but the older Karajan Schubert recordings are powerful and fun -- he had a real feel for the language. BTW, not to offend you, but assume you are a big fan of the Schubert Quintet. Have grown accustomed to the Smithsonian recording played on all Strads. Oddly, took a little while to become accustomed to the timbre but now cannot listen to anything else. That second movement goes with you to the grave, right? |
Well, Artur Rubinstein said the adagio was the greatest piece ever written and he wanted it played at his funeral . good enough for me . I can’t even comment on the Quintet, 2 years ago I heard it played live by players of the St Paul CO , world class all , at the end the gent next to me said to me that the adagio was written by God for a dying man he loved . Goodman retired last year at age 65, said he was coming back at 70 after he rested up ! To me he’s a wild man who has everything under control , I love him . |
F. Liszt - "Ständchen" Piano Transcriptions After Schubert - Khatia Buniatishvili
One more for tonight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlTTgJau33Q |
Alwyn: Complete Symphonies by LSO/Hickox. Have now been able to thoroughly preview this 3 CD set and it is a solid 5 stars (or, perhaps we should say 2 "LeftEars"). The bookend pieces of the set leave you breathless -- the first symphony (written in 1950) and the Sinfonietta for strings (in 1969). Perhaps because of his film score background, Alwyn is listenable while still being innovative. Check out his characteristic melodic style in the first movement of the Sinfonietta. The 4th movement of the 1st shows off his sophisticated contrapuntal abilities. The 3rd movement of the same has a beautiful melody reminiscent of Elgar who might be considered Alwyn's rightful mentor. Grab the LSO Hickox set while it's still available. Reviewers keep talking about how important this composer is but he seems always relegated to a minor status. If you get just one of the symphonies, go for the first. |
From the used bin... Wilhelm Stenhammer: Serenade, Op 31 by Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra and Neeme Jarvi. Sweden's #1 classical opus written by its #2 ranked composer (Berwald gets the top spot) and played by the orchestra Stenhammer helped establish in 1905 and that still plays and records his work -- sort of an extended "thank you." The Canzonetta get the "Dives" award for repeated listening appeal. Stream it on Tidal, order it from Amazon, or get lucky as I did and find it in a used bin. |
At the risk of going slightly OT, seems like this is best directed at readers of this thread. Has it occurred to anyone else that Mahler must have heard the Adagietto from Bizet's L'Arlesienne Suite no. 1 before he composed his own, utterly sublime, Adagietto in Symphony 5? The more I listed to the Bizet, the more I hear echoes... |
TwoLeftEars Think you're right: the texture and crescendo sound very derivative. Have often thought that Mahler was in the same mood when he composed the slow movements for symphonies 4 and 5. Still go back to the Bernstein recodings for Mahler and Bizet...and think that the flutist in the Carmen Intermezzo should have been given an award. |
Does anyone have the Oliveira CD of him playing different Stradivarius and Guarneri violins? Instead of using one's system to hear the more or less subtle differences in the sonorities, I was wondering if one could take those differences for granted, and instead use the CD for testing the resolving power of different systems. |
Don't have that CD but think the approach will work and will tell you a good deal about the timbral accuracy of the audio system. Check this out with my systems regularly for piano CDs as well as the tapes made in my studio on a German Grand. It is VERY difficult to capture completely the timbre of an instrument you know well. Not even tuned studio equipment will always produce perfect results. The free software app REW can do a lot to check out the accuracy of your system but it requires measurement mics and a quality converter. Have two CD cases recently where the timbre of the instrument has been caught extremely well: 1. the 9' Steinway Ashkenazy uses in his Rachmaninoff Concertos (Decca) and 2. the Geissenhof violin Kurosaki uses in his Beethoven violin sonatas (Accent). For me, the first is a plus, the second a minus. The extreme clarity of the Geissenhof is sabatoged by the dry style Kurosaki prefers. My experience has been that violins in particular differ more than many acoustical instruments in their overall timbral quality and often it is worthwhile to check multiple offerings though online 30 second samples to find an instrument you can appreciate. Recently did this with the Franck violin sonata and settled on Perlman's violin and performance. |
A couple of off the beaten path 'Symphonies' that I just listened to (but not for the first time!) that I really enjoy when I just want to hear big, bombastic stuff, sort of like many Strauss tone poems, not so much like a more formal symphony. Franz Liszt's "Dante Symphony" by Leon Botstein and the LSO on Telarc, and "A Faust Symphony" by Ivam Fisher and the Budapest Festival Orchestra on Phillips. I really enjoy both but I'm partial the the Faust because of the inclusion of the third movement (choral) which includes the voice of Hans Peter Blochwitz. On the cheap you can get a Bernstein and the BSO performance at Tanglewood on the DG label. Pretty good too! |
IMO, and many others as well, the GREAT Swiss oboist , Heinz Holliger, was the greatest instrumentalist of our time . He played with every good symphony of the world and was the most sought after player in the world . Also taught music, not just oboe. at a top German conservatory for many years and was/is a composer . Those who have heard him know what I mean when I say it is hard to believe anyone could play anything that well but for those who haven’t a top choice to hear music played as well as it can be played is. Telemann/ Concerti per oboe/ Academy of St. Martin-in-the Fields under Iona Brown . Phillips 412 879-2 . It was recorded in 1981 when he was at his pinnacle and has that warm Phillips sound . Still alive and active at 79 ! |
Time to get this thread moving again. Have thought of several challenges for you astute pundits. The first is the answer to the question "what is the most difficult orchestral work?" The rules require that it be played more or less regularly and that it be instrumental only (no solo concertos either -- we'll make that another category). Sorry, Mahler 8th lovers... So I'll start off the sweepstakes with two examples: Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra and Strauss's An Alpine Symphony. The first has intricate contrapuntal textures and associated rhythmic complexity -- and each orchestral section is treated like a concerto instrument, thus the name. The Strauss has tremendous bombast along with its technical demands as well as Herculean length and orchestral size. Neither of these opuses is comfortable for the average orchestra. But you folks can come up with better examples, so I leave it to you to tell me the most difficult orchestral composition. And if you have an orchestra and conductor that tamed the beast, so much the better. |
I’ve been away for ten days and unable to contribute anything to this thread, but now will try to catch up. Khatia Buniatishvili is indeed an extraordinary pianist. If you want to hear how incredible she is, listen to her take on Mussorgsky’s “Pictures at an Exhibition.” totally original concept, with Horowitzian technique. On the same CD is a sizzling Ravel’s “La Valse.” On the subject of the most most difficult piece to perform, several decades ago, I bought tickets to hear Strauss’ “Ein Heldenleben” conducted by Klaus Tennstedt. when I showed up at Carnegie, there was an insert saying he was ill and was being replaced by James DePreist. I was bummed out because I had bought these tickets months in advance to hear Tennstedt. But I was bummed out even more after I heard I believe it was The Philadelphia Orchestra totally butcher the piece into unrecognition. The only conclusion I can draw, is that the piece must be a bear to play, and that DePreist couldn’t bring it together with limited rehearsal. |
Years ago sat through several performances of "Heldenleben" with the Saint Louis Symphony that were deadly dull. Then, after hearing the Karajan 1973 recording with the BPO, decided this was a work difficult to make work for the listener -- and, as you suggest, requires a conductor who is in control. Karajan could do this... |
And the "Dives" award goes to... Scriabin: Piano Concerto in f-sharp minor, II: Andante. It will keep you coming back for more. The outer movements are also superb and the end to the concerto is notable. Am listening to the BIS release, Stockholm Phil/Segerstam with pianist Roland Pontinen; perfectly good recording but understand the Ashkenazy is the standard. |
Beat you to it twoleftears. I just listened to my Maazel/Askenazy version on Decca's CD. It too has been on the shelf too long I think. It is an excellent performance and in good sound too. I do not have Pontien's so I cannot comment on the differences but I do find the disc mates on Ashkenazy's CD preferable. I have a Hyperion CD with Scriabin's PC combined with Tchaikovsky's PC. Played by Nikolai Demidenko and the BBC SO. I give it a listen out of curiosity. |
newbee Owe you a thanks for the Stanford recco you made above. My set came in last week and have been listening for a couple of days. Stanford is very strong in compositional technique and if you can accept his tendency to borrow and use popular Irish tunes his compositional skill makes all sound major league -- no second rate tendencies at all. Enjoy the 6th Rhapsody (solo violin) and the piano concerto. The latter does owe rather a lot to Rachnaninoff. |
