Jim,
The main situation with me is that, digitally I have many thousands of CD’s that sound great with my DAC. Also, almost as many records (that sound even better.) So most of my listening is not from streaming. I still buy CD’s even though the same content is available online because I like the way they sound with my DAC.
When I recover financially from expenditure of my new speakers, I’ll definitely consider a hi-res capable player.
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Interestingly, I just A-B ed Qubuz and IDAGIO in the same non hi-res selection and found the IDAGIO had slightly better SQ. I don’t know why.
You can try it yourself to see if you up with the same results. |
Yes that's a good idea , I'll try that at the weekend and let you know how I get on.
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Revisiting Chopin/Zimerman/Giulini on DGG. A remarkably engineered recording. If the soundstage isn't well outside your speakers, something is wrong. Depth is fine but not commensurate with width. Fine performance, not quite sure about the treble range of the piano--recorded a little forward I suspect. |
Well, twoleftears, something must be wrong with my system. I get no sound beyond the boundaries of my speakers, but then I don’t expect any. You can revisit what I had to say about set up in RV’s other post on imaging wherein I talk about the ’stereo construct’. Only out of phase information can appear there, but side wall reflections are often mis- heard as primary signals. Nothing wrong with setting up your system to get that sound if that is what you really want.
About the recording itself, it is a 1979 DG after all. Not overly warm or romantic. I love the clarity of his and the orchestra in these pieces, as compared to, lets say my old favorite (on LP’s) Claudio Arrau. Neither the piano nor the orchestra dominate. I find the sound balance with the piano on left center of the stage. FWIW I have quite a few of these works but this is the only one I listen to any longer. I understand that he did a redo in 1999 of these works wherein he conducted from the piano with a Polish Orchestra which is highly regarded. These are apparently highly regarded as well even if quite different.
I’m no expert on these pieces. Perhaps RV would like to comment. |
I’m sorry I cannot comment on the fine points of his Chopin concerto recordings because I don’t own them. But I have heard him live in concert, playing and conducting the E minor Concerto. A very original, some would say eccentric performance with great variation in tempo; a very personal interpretation like none other I’ve heard.
Truthfully, I was not totally convinced of his approach. While original, it did not let the music flow. He certainly is a fine pianist, but this performance did not work for me. His 1999 recording which I’ve heard is quite similar to what was executed in the concert. I would guess his earlier recording with Giulini is more conventionally rendered.
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RV.I had time to do a comparison over the weekend of IDAGIO and QOBUZ streaming and I came to the conclusion that at conventional CD rates that it was swings and roundabouts , not one winning over the other. However when it came to higher rez files the Qobuz 24 / 96 files trounced the cd quality files with the higher rez having so much more air about them , also the treble was much improved on the higher rez.
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“Swings and roundabouts?”
Not an American term, but I get what you mean.
Of course, I would expect the hi res files to sound better.
Maybe, some day... |
Newbee,
I’ve just located both Zimerman performances on IDAGIO. I’ll give them a listen and report back.
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RV, I'll look forward to your comments.
FWIW, from an audio perspective only, something I noticed last night after hearing PC 1 and posting. I listened to PC 2 - contrary to my comments about the piano appearing left of center in PC1 (which I rechecked today), in PC2 it was dead center. Additionally the over all gain seemed increased as well. ??? Go figure. Obviously they were recorded on different days, and all of the variables that might bring, or my hearing/audio system isn't up to par. |
Changed to Biret/Naxos for PC2, nice, more distant perspective. I think I have Arrau also on a budget reissue. Must check. The way the piano floats over the orchestral accompaniment in the slow movement is delectable. |
I really can’t comment a lot on the debate over SQ because IDAGIO is not as revealing as my CD setup. I can say the piano appears to be slightly left of center, and at least on IDAGIO the sound is full and warm if not extending past the speakers too much.
As for the performances, I have more to say.
The 1999 performance is as I remember it live, if even more eccentric. Wide (if not wild) variances in tempo make it hard to appreciate the music. I remember when the recording first came out it was hailed by some as revolutionary or revelatory, but not by me. I heard it live around that time.
The 19 year old Chopin did a remarkable job orchestrating this piece for one so young, but he never became a great orchestrator as he composed almost exclusively for piano solo. (Exceptions include a cello sonata, a trio and some songs.)
I much prefer the Giulini recording. It’s more poetic and simpatico to me.
The orchestra is conducted with more authority. The 30 year old Zimerman is brilliant. |
RV, thanks. No need for the '99 version I think.
twoleftears, I think you may like the Arrau. I find this performance a bit relaxed and very enjoyable. I think you will like the fact that the piano is more spot lit than Zimmerman's. FWIW, I haven't heard Biret's but she is one very talented lady. She has an large discography on Naxos of romantic solo piano works, including Chopin, Rachmaninoff and Brahms, well worth hearing. |
I just discovered a pianist named Roland Batik on Spotify.
Wow, he is pretty talented, both Classical and Jazz.
Bob |
@newbee Just enjoyed a very spirited performance of the Schumann PC courtesy of Stephen Bishop and Colin Davis. Looking on Amazon, I see there are highly touted versions available from both Lupu and Perahia, two of my absolute favs. This will be the ruination of me...
Listening as I type to second movement of Arrau Chopin PC 2. Yes, the balance of the piano sound is definitely more, err, robust. I love Arrau's phrasing and interpretation, I just wish the orchestra were balanced differently; it seems to me that this movement needs to shimmer more with a kind of restrained inner light. Going back to check Giulini now, though Inbal takes a full minute longer than he does. ...And yes, this is more like it!
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@twoleftears ,
When I saw PC, I thought Power Cord. It took a minute to register...
In my opinion, the nicest recording of the Schumann A minor (PC), is Martha Agerich and Rostropovich. It isn't available on CD, so I bought an LP and will have it digitized.
Bob |
Gdnrbob,
If you search Amazon deeply, you’ll find CD copies of the Argerich/Rostropovich.
It was re-released in 2016 |
Bought a bunch of CDs recently, many of them based on recommendations from this thread.
First one to arrive is Igor Levit, 2CDs, late piano sonatas.
Recording: piano image is very present, well fleshed out, more neutral than warm in tonality. Sounds recorded in a fairly small space. The piano is right "there" starting at about the plane of the front wall behind the speakers, so if this were a concert, I'd be sitting close.
Performance: 28 sounded, well, intellectual.
29 is a bit more stirring. Perhaps it's just the nature of the late sonatas that I'm reacting to, and perhaps it's Levit.
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Curiously, enjoying disc 2 rather more than disc 1. Piano sound still very good. Perhaps it's my mood, perhaps it's the AC.
Still, Levit has me wondering if Glenn Gould ever recorded the late Beethoven, and if so, how similar their interpretations would be.
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@jcazador, I don't see the Schumann Piano Concerto in those links. And, the recording I reference to was with the National Symphony Orchestra. It looks like RV was correct: https://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Piano-Concerto-Op-54-Op-129/dp/B0018OC7VMI might get a copy and compare it with my digitized version. Even if it has differing resolution, the performance is one that I consider something Schumann himself would approve of- and, perhaps, Clara. Bob |
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A great rendition of the Schumann Cello Concerto, which I love, is the
du Pre/ Barenboim on various Angel/EMI LP’s . CD’s don’t do it justice IMO.
My fav is AngelS-36642 because it’s paired with the Saint-Saens Cello Op.33 . One of du Pre’s most charming efforts which is saying a lot .
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Another recommendation from you guys, just in today, Yevgeny Sudbin recital, on BIS. Wow! Stirring stuff. The Liszt is indeed agitato molto. |
Is the Sudbin recital compositions by Liszt, Ravel and Saint-Saens?
If so, its listed as $25-$79 on Amazon. |
Bought it on Presto Classical in U.K. for $14.25 plus tax. |
Got it new from Academy Records for $9.99. On Amazon. Seems to have been the only one. You can get it used-very good for $8.68. |
And they keep on coming, keeping the mail carrier busy.
Daniil Trifonov + Philadelphia Orchestra, Rachmaninov 2 and 4, with some Bach in between as a palette cleanser. Sounding very good so far.
But now I'll have to go back and listen to Ortiz, Janis and Michelangeli.
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Good recording. I like his performance of the 4th Concerto better than the 2nd.
My all-time favorite of the 4th is with Earl Wild and Jasha Horenstein.
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+1 on Wild's 4th. For that matter I consider one of the great values in audio is the set of all 4 concertos by these forces. It's now available in a set on Amazon for $22 plus. Twoleftears, seriously, don't miss this if you really like these works. :-) |
I recently got an amazing new recording of Mahler’s 6th with Teodor Currentzis and Music Aeterna on SONY. I’ve had mixed feelings about this conductor’s past releases, always extroverted, but this one is truly remarkable. Not a dull moment in the entire performance.
Inciteful and emotional to the extreme, this is Mahler playing at it’s best, in my opinion.
Excellent sound, too
I got it from Presto in England. It won’t be released in the States until December 5th. |
My favorite Mahler 6th is Horenstein conducting. It is a live performance and the audience never makes a sound. I think it is Stockholm.
Bob |
Bob,
if if you want a treat, listen to this one.
I’m going to pm you. |
Funnily enough I just added Currentzis to my cart last night. I must have more different recordings of the Mahler symphonies than any other composer. I grew up listening to the venerable Solti cycle on Decca, so that became imprinted in a way, and I still notice the differences w.r.t. Solti as a kind of benchmark. So much for the teenage years... |
Me too, as far as Mahler goes. I have several complete cycles of the symphonies by different conductors.
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An interesting question occurred to me that I thought I would pose to the forum:
What is the greatest single piano solo piece ever written? (Or, what is is your favorite? Maybe not the same question.)
I would like to exclude the Beethoven Sonatas from consideration, as there are too many clear winners there.
Other than those, I have one to nominate.
Although I’m not a big fan of this composer, I have one of his compositions to suggest:
Liszt’s Piano Sonata in B minor. A monumental achievement to me.
I’m really interested in what others might think.
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I don't know greatest, but I have co-favorites -
Liszt's Annees de pelerinage and Schumanns Fantasy in C Major. |
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I agree wholeheartedly on the Liszt B Minor Sonata and think it was maybe the best Sonata from the 19th century and also that Liszt was probably the greatest example of piano playing during his lifetime and even now. He was responsible for the achievements from Debussy , Ravel , Rachmaninov and all others after he passed. He also has wonderful music written into his Annees de Pelerinage 1,2 and 3.Listen to his Benediction de deux dans la Solitude it is absolutely divine especially played by Claudio Arrau who studied with Martin Krause a student of Liszt who passed on a great tradition of Liszt playing. Also aside from Arrau Krause taught Edwin Fisher who was a great pianist in the first part of the twentieth century. People who denigrate Liszt usually cannot play what he wrote but forget that Liszt was able to play all the music that he ever wrote. Ravel with Gaspard de La Nuit and Balakirev with Islamey are two that I know of straight off. Has anyone ever listened to the Beethoven Symphonies that liszt transcribed for piano, it was an absoloutely Herculean task and again Liszt was able to play every note which took the breath away from all who listened to him.Cyprien Katsaris is a pianist who I have playing the 9 symphonies and the piano playing is astonishing and I have looked on Amazon and the 9 symphonies can be had for , from £17.04 but I can't say how much they can be had for in dollars but I am sure it would be quite cheap also. The pianist that I would say inherited the Liszt way of supreme playing and wonderfull compositions which again he could play with great virtuosity was Rachmaninov. He took over from Liszt in that his compositions demand a pianist of supreme technical abillity.I am really glad this century is producing pianists that are able to take on the mantle of liszt and I think the stand out perfomer at the moment that I would say is way above the herd is Arkady Volodos who can do things on the instrument that everyone can only dream of. Listen to Volodos playing his arrangement of Mozart's Turkish March and you would think he had three hands. I was once at a concert of his and he played it as an encore it was just unbelievable he threw it off like a Chopin prelude it really brought the house down . let me tell you I am glad that I travelled from my little town is south west Scotland all the way to London and back for that one concert. I couldn't get it out of my mind for days and that must be what Liszt's audiences must have felt also.
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I continued listening through the Sudbin recital disc. While I had enjoyed the Liszt, Funérailles, Transcendental Etudes, nos. 10 and 11, and “Harmonies du soir”, I thought the List Three Petrarch Sonnets followed by Ravel, Gaspard de la nuit, even better. The Andsnes Beethoven #5 + Choral Fantasy very, very good too. I have Volodos, Mompou winging its way to me. |
Jim,
You and I are in total agreement.
Rachmaninoff and Volodos, and I have to add Horowitz (and maybe Glenn Gould) are the greatest pianistic geniuses I’ve heard in my lifetime.
And just consider, with Rachmaninoff, his even greater genius was as a composer.
Just beyond belief!!!!!!
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You are so right RV I completely forgot about Horowitz what a Blunder that was I do apologiseThat reminds me of a story I read in the Claudio Arrau biography where his mother and him went to a recital by Horowitz and it was in 1925 in Berlin .His mother had nothing good to say about any pianist old or young that they heard but that night his mother sat there in disbelief at what she was hearing . When it was over she looked at her son and said "you had better go home and practice because he plays better than you" . What a downer for Arrau!!!!!
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That’s a good story.
I think he had that effect on a lot of people.
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I just found your response to my post. So that is Currentzis.
I never heard of him until now.
B |
@jim204,
Though I have never been a big Liszt fan, I have to agree with your assessment of the Liszt transcription of the Beethoven symphonies.
They are quite amazing.
I only knew of the 4 hand transcriptions- which I discovered in an Italian movie that I have now forgotten-It was the Scherzo from the 9th symphony. Perhaps another member can tell me what movie it came from.
Bob |
My favorite is whatever Schubert or Schumann is closest at hand .That said , here is 3 of the best seldom mentioned .
From a great not noted for his Schubert, Rubinstein with Wander Fantasia
in C and the great sonata D.960 with a few Impromptus thrown in .RCA 63054-2
Kempff on DG 459 412-2 another of the great D. 960 with the most
Germanic rendition possible of the Impromptus and Moments musicaux D.780
IMO one of Brendal’s best was Schumann on Phillips 434 732-2
in very good sound which he did not always get .Fantasiestucke Op.12 . Kinderszenen Op.15 and a near perfect Kreisleriana Op 16 .
I take that back, it is perfect ! |
Hi Len,I do agree with you about the Rubinstein Schubert and I would like to make a suggestion regarding D960, Arrau made a wonderful version of it perhaps even more Germanic than Rubinstein. He also played it with the long section in the first movement that all other pianists cut and when you hear it I am quite sure you will want other pianists to want to keep it also . What Brendel had to say about Schubert was a lot of his work had what he termed heavenly lengths ( pity he didn't stick to his guns and keep the D960 to the original manuscript himself ) . I do remember going to see Brendel in Glasgow in the 70's and beyond and he played the last three sonatas of Schubert and although he didn't shock and thrill as the big vitrtuosos would do his musical taste and commitment were above reproach, he was very well respected and popular in Scotland and when he played up here the houses were always full.
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